Pipeline protestors need to be jailed

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, jacee said:

Nonsense.

Influencing  government and public opinion is democracy in action.

Jean Charest lost an election and his career when he tried to squash democratic dissent.

That's how democracy works. 

Of course conservatives don't want to get their shiny shoes dirty, so they just throw money around and buy governments.

That's fascism. 

 

You pretty much call anybody who disagrees a fascist. 

[eyeball]

10 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

You're free to submit to your new king.

Yeah thanks for that.  It's been no more harder or inconvenient than submitting to our Constitution and Charter.

BTW did did you pay any attention when I mentioned the hereditary chief down the road from us who was convicted of poaching?

[DogOnPorch]

Meanwhile, out comes the 'traditional garb' just to add credence to the 'I'm special' claim... 

Meanwhile, anybody who knows these tribes also knows they had no borders...didn't live in certain regions as they were cursed...all feared the Haida as they were the coastal tribe's bitches.

Oh...and you should see their houses. Did you think they live in 'traditional' native settlements? Think again...

[eyeball]

13 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

I can't go claim thousands of acres in the woods because I feel it's mine. Nor can I go strutting back to Europe to start making claims on various properties lost to history that my ancestors might or might not have had title to.

And yet you could go to Israel to do just that if you were Jewish and you fully support people who do.

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, eyeball said:

And yet you could go to Israel to do just that if you were Jewish and you fully support people who do.

 

I'm not Jewish. Nor do I have an opinion on the validity on certain Jewish claims to certain regions of the Middle East. But The Zionists BOUGHT their land from the Ottomans.

Since most of you are no-doubt native challenged, these folks are called Carrier Indians (Dakelh in today-speak) as they were not allowed to bury their bones nor settle anywhere specific. Only the arrival of the Hudson Bay Company with the building of forts and trap lines did these people start to flourish as they were suddenly free to settle down without fear of constant Haida slave raids.

Traditional lands? Try trackless rain-forest so thick at time that animals refuse to venture. Nobody lives IN the forest.

[eyeball]

1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said:

I'm not Jewish. Nor do I have an opinion on the validity on certain Jewish claims to certain regions of the Middle East

In a pig's eye. 

Quote

Traditional lands? Try trackless rain-forest so thick at time that animals refuse to venture. Nobody lives IN the forest.

I suppose like most people they live in clearings in the forest or along rivers, shorelines and such. Like we do in and around the thick rain-forest outside my window. 

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, eyeball said:

In a pig's eye. 

I suppose like most people they live in clearings in the forest or along rivers, shorelines and such. Like we do in and around the thick rain-forest outside my window. 

 

The Haida wouldn't let them. They had to constantly move in order to survive.

Plus, we're not talking tens of thousands here. This was a subsistence existence...hundreds at best during GOOD times.

Today they are centered around Prince George, but during the old times, that area was cursed as it flooded disastrously on a yearly basis. 

Tradition says don't pitch your tent there.

Why, Grandfather??

Wait for it........ 

[eyeball]

1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said:

The Haida wouldn't let them. They had to constantly move in order to survive.

So are you attempting to build some case for Ottawa calling on the Haida to end the blockades DOP?

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, eyeball said:

So are you attempting to build some case for Ottawa calling on the Haida to end the blockades DOP?

 

No...the Haida were the Vikings of the region...the Carrier the innocent monks.

[eyeball]

5 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

No...the Haida were the Vikings of the region...the Carrier the innocent monks.

Well, if the Haida start behaving like Vikings again perhaps the UN, the International Red Cross and others better suited for these sorts of trans boundary invasions could help deal with it.  There are all sorts of international laws and conventions Carrier folks could call on in a pinch.

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, eyeball said:

Well, if the Haida start behaving like Vikings again perhaps the UN, the International Red Cross and others better suited for these sorts of trans boundary invasions could help deal with it.  There are all sorts of international laws and conventions Carrier folks could call on in a pinch.

 

You live on the coast and know full well that the coastal tribes like the Haida and Nootka had ocean-going capabilities. That allowed them to develop culture like the Potlatch which allowed them to coordinate annual raiding into the interior....up those darn rivers and sounds....just like the Europeans.

[eyeball]

1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said:

You live on the coast and know full well that the coastal tribes like the Haida and Nootka had ocean-going capabilities. That allowed them to develop culture like the Potlatch which allowed them to coordinate annual raiding into the interior....up those darn rivers and sounds....just like the Europeans.

Uh huh...

[DogOnPorch]

3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Uh huh...

 

Indeed...they all got together and besieged Victoria one one occasion if you check your BC history.

 

[eyeball]

2 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Indeed...they all got together and besieged Victoria one one occasion if you check your BC history.

Uh huh...

Will you please just spit out whatever point you're trying to make so we can move on.

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by eyeball

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, eyeball said:

Uh huh...

Will you please just spit out whatever point you're trying to make so we can move on.

 

 

I accept your surrender.

[eyeball]

7 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

I accept your surrender.

Yeah, who couldn't see that coming?

[DogOnPorch]

3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Yeah, who couldn't see that coming?

 

Well, you're responses have become grunts...so I see you going over the hill.

It's nice to think that the natives across Canada were one big block that thought alike. But in reality, that wasn't so. They fought like cats and dogs...just like Europeans.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, DogOnPorch said:

Well, you're responses have become grunts...so I see you going over the hill.

It's not my fault a non-committal response leaves you flummoxed.

Quote

It's nice to think that the natives across Canada were one big block that thought alike. But in reality, that wasn't so.

Who said they were?  Please shove your silly strawman up your stupid ass.

Quote

They fought like cats and dogs...just like Europeans.

So what?  I highly doubt Canadian jurisprudence is about to allow the sort of whataboutery you're spouting here to justify not reconciling with indigenous people.

You seem to think it would be nicer if the descendents of Europeans in Canada today still thought as one big block in the long unchanging traditional manner of our ancestors. How ironic and what's even more ironic is that natives across Canada are starting to think more along the lines of a block in the present.

Things change, suck it up and stop being such a suck about it.

Edited February 24, 2020 by eyeball

[Yzermandius19]

4 hours ago, jacee said:

Nonsense.

Influencing  government and public opinion is democracy in action.

Jean Charest's fascism lost him an election and his career when he tried to squash democratic dissent.

That's how democracy works. It squashes fascism ... with pots and pans. 

Of course conservatives don't want to get their shiny shoes dirty, so they just throw money around and buy governments.

That's fascism. 

Trying to negate the results of elections is not democracy in action, that's the exact opposite.

[betsy]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Things change, suck it up and stop being such a suck about it.

 

Lol.   Yeah.   Things change - so, don't  be outraged when Canadians start taking matters into their own hands, and do the job for Trudeau!   Because that's the inevitable outcome if Trudeau doesn't overcome his paralysis!

You think people won't do anything if there is nothing to buy?  If shelves are empty?  What commodities available become over-priced?  If people keep losing jobs?  Businesses closing?

Whatever positive outcome the new NAFTA brings, means squat!

Yooooo-hooooo?  VENEZUELA here we come!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by betsy

[Guest]

7 hours ago, eyeball said:

If he's the one telling you the elected band councils trump the hereditary chiefs then he doesn't know what he's talking about.  He may well be in good company but that doesn't change anything.

He didn't.  I don't believe I said he did.  He said that at one point all the FN on the route had agreements with the pipeline company. 

 

7 hours ago, eyeball said:

The same reason we elect municipal representatives and leaders.

No. I'm in favour of hereditary leaders who bring a tradition of looking at issues thru a lens that takes a longer view than the shorter scope a municipal politician might bring to bear on issues.  

I'm in favour of elected leaders.  Like I said, basic differences

Edited February 24, 2020 by bcsapper

[scribblet]

12 hours ago, bcsapper said:

Basic disagreement here.  The FN in BC want the pipeline.   You don't want them to have the pipeline.  We both have ulterior motives for wanting or not wanting the pipeline, along with our views of the FN side of the issue, but elected natives representing their bands want the pipeline, and they have reached many agreements in order to reap the benefits.  You obviously can get your head around that.  I wonder why you disagree with them.  Unless you think birthright trumps democracy?  If you do, then we'll never agree on the issue.

The Chinese probably didn't bother to do anything to justify their actions.  Like I said, they are barbaric bastards.  At least we can agree on that, eh?  (not all of them, of course)

The big majority want it, only a minority don't want it but that has been coopted by radical eco protestors along with the Mohawks.  Time to hurt these guys where it hurts, close their illegal pot shops and gummy bear dispemsaries, then start cutting off the money we give them.

[Yzermandius19]

19 minutes ago, scribblet said:

Time to hurt these guys where it hurts, close their illegal pot shops and gummy bear dispemsaries.

Boooourns.

Edited February 24, 2020 by Yzermandius19

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, scribblet said:

The big majority want it, only a minority don't want it but that has been coopted by radical eco protestors along with the Mohawks.  Time to hurt these guys where it hurts, close their illegal pot shops and gummy bear dispemsaries, then start cutting off the money we give them.

Ha ha, you mentioned reality: The Mohawks are running a ton of pot shops.  It's a great variety and totally outside of Ontario regulations, because of this grey "First Nations" status, even though the laws still apply.  Mohawk leadership doesn't support the protests.  It's a faction of the Mohawks at the blockades.  The bigger worry now that police are enforcing the law and removing/arresting people blocking the railway crossings is what's going to happen to "their illegal pot shops and gummy bear dispensaries".  It always comes back to the money.  Economics.  Hey, if I thought I could get away with it, I'd be running a row of pot shops.  They're not stupid.

Edited February 24, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[Shady]

Every dollar that these illegal protests cost taxpayers needs to be subtracted from any funds First Nations groups receive from the federal and provincial governments.  These costs need to be downloaded on to them, so that they realize there’s a price to pay.