Alberta Separation

[WestCanMan]

On 7/21/2019 at 6:01 PM, Zeitgeist said:

The facts are that Canadians are generally less polarized than Americans and happier.  National pride is also strong.  There is simply no great appetite for separation from either Quebec or Alberta in Canada.   

I can't speak for Quebec, but there is plenty in Alberta. It's at about 25% and the election isn't even here yet. The vast majority of Albertans, outside of Edmontonians, will be in favour of separation if Trudeau is re-elected.

[Dougie93]

10 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

I can't speak for Quebec, but there is plenty in Alberta. It's at about 25% and the election isn't even here yet. The vast majority of Albertans, outside of Edmontonians, will be in favour of separation if Trudeau is re-elected.

Oh it's increasing in Ontario too, outside of the Ivory towers of Toronto.

Bear in mind, I used to be a Guardian of Confederation, now I am a Pequiste.

Vive l'Ontario, vive l'Ontario libre.

[August1991]

Haven't read the thread.

IMHO,  Alberta will not separate from Canada unless northern BC does too.

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, August1991 said:

Haven't read the thread.

IMHO,  Alberta will not separate from Canada unless northern BC does too.

Quebec will go first.   The rest will unravel like a ball of yarn after.

[Dougie93]

Interesting none the less; Ex-military,  Ex-RCMP officer forms Wexit Alberta to "kick Ottawa to the curb" by referendum for separation.

Alberta won't go first, but agitprop against Confederation in general is aid and comfort to all Pequistes in the end.

Vive le Quebec libre, kick Ottawa to the curb.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/is-a-wexit-in-albertas-future

The non unionized armed agents of the state are leading the charge against the Ottawa Potemkin Village, as by serving in the CF and RCMP does one come to see the truly crazy nature of it behind the curtain, and not being PSAC, we seek no handouts so can't be bought off.

When I castigate the RCMP for being the Keystone Cops, I don't hold the rank and file responsible, they are paramilitary armed constabulary, like soldiers mere instruments of policy, the armed forces know who the CinC is, and it ain't Julie Payette, but unless they are prepared to be insubordinate for its own sake, really can't do much about it until they turn their kit in.

 

Edited August 25, 2019 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

From the comments section of that OP;

Bruce Bower writes;

"A lot of us in Western Canada have come to the conclusion that we can no longer exist in Confederation. Ottawa has not had the west's interests at heart starting with Pearson and then Trudeau senior to the point that this present idiot in Ottawa has finally solidified our resolve to leave. We should join the northern prairie states and throw up the border at BC and Ontario. We will not owe anything as we have bailed the rest of the country out with transfer payments so they will keep all of that debt. The northern airforce and army bases will be assumed by the USAF and the US Army/Marines and the US Navy will now have the Port of Churchill for northern operations."

Simon Jones writes;

"If Alberta leaves--half of the Maritimes goes with them.
All those Maritime people that made the oilfields work will move back to their old jobs.Particularly if they join the US.
Canada is a farce not sorry to see it break up--thanks to Trudeau showing the way"

 

Not going to be Alberta, but when Quebec leaves that will indeed be the nature of the unraveling the ball of yarn.

 

Mark Smith writes;

 

"Speaking as a former westerner (born n raised Saskatoon, Sask) I understand and know exactly how many feel in western Canada. Extreme frustration and anger towards eastern Canadians, who consistently elect or re-elect idiotic mentally disturbed corrupt politicians. Based not on sane policies, but rather personalty and party loyalty. Even though said politician or party has been found criminally corrupt ! It seems that eastern Canadians claim to be intelligent and progressive, chastise others who elect morons and corrupt politicians. Yet when the shoe is on the other foot (more times than not) they will do exactly what they accuse others of !?

Western separation is not the answer, would only lead to less rather than more for the average person. No, what needs to be done is action, people taking to the streets and calling out radical leftist elites like Justin Trudeau and many others. News media held accountable for pushing leftists and progressive propaganda. I believe it wouldn't take long before REAL change would occur in Ottawa if Canadians reacted like this."

 

It's not going to change, Mark, the Elite Consensus bars all paths, none the less, when the elites blow the economy up, they won't have shekels anymore to bribe Quebec into staying.

[Dougie93]

 I like this guy, Fellow Traveler and Soldier of the Crown.

Edited August 25, 2019 by Dougie93

[-TSS-]

Speaking of federations, I wonder if instead of having 15 different Spanish-speaking countries in South- and Central-America there would be some huge Estados Unidos Hispanicos or something of the sorts. Would that be more succesful than the current arrangement of having various countries which have huge cultural differences but have the Spanish language in common.

[Dougie93]

Just now, -TSS- said:

Speaking of federations, I wonder if instead of having 15 different Spanish-speaking countries in South- and Central-America there would be some huge Estados Unidos Hispanicos or something of the sorts. Would that be more succesful than the current arrangement of having various countries which have huge cultural differences but have the Spanish language in common.

It doesn't become proxy for the United States of America because Latin America doesn't have the Anglo-Saxon rule of law.

The downfall of Latin America is that it all originated from the rule of Spanish and Portuguese Roman Catholic autocracy.

The power of the United States of America is the Flight to Quality, the flight is towards rule of law, property rights, autonomy from the state, the flight to freedom.

The legal systems in Latin America resemble the Spanish Inquisition.   Take Bolsonaro for example, the way PT was taken down as an Inquisition.

[-TSS-]

The problem with federations which lack a genuine sense of togetherness or cohesion and have been formed as a marriage of convenience is all the members of such federations count their pennies very strictly as to how much they put in and how much they get back or do they get value for their money and that once some members of such federations feel that the deal is no longer advantageous for them they really lose the will to be part of such a federation.

[Dougie93]

54 minutes ago, -TSS- said:

The problem with federations which lack a genuine sense of togetherness or cohesion and have been formed as a marriage of convenience is all the members of such federations count their pennies very strictly as to how much they put in and how much they get back or do they get value for their money and that once some members of such federations feel that the deal is no longer advantageous for them they really lose the will to be part of such a federation.

Not all federations fail,  America is a federation, and it's always on the brink of some sort of civil war, but in the end American freedom and the need to defend it binds them all together.

Canada doesn't have that sort of freedom.  Canada was a shotgun marriage imposed from London in 1867.  

In order to follow its purpose, which is to keep the French in, the Americans out, and the Indians down, it has to be a police state.

That police state then falls under the undue influence of narrowly vested entrenched interests who run it like a Company Town to their advantage and not the majority.

This is enforced from Toronto, the fortress of the elites, who run the rest of Canada as if it was their colonies.

People hate Toronto for this, but they simply fail to take that to the logical conclusion, which is that Canada is Toronto now, there is no part of Canada which is permitted to be free of Toronto.

In the case of Quebec, Toronto doesn't have control of them, so they bribe them into compliance instead, using the money Toronto steals from everybody else.

Edited August 26, 2019 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

This is then what is inciting the lawlessness and totalitarianism in Canada now.

As resistance to Toronto increases, because it is a tyranny of the elites which breeds dysfunction, the elites in Toronto become ever more desperate to force people to rally around them.

They will break the law, they will run a state media which does nothing but indoctrinate people to obey, they will indict anyone who opposes them as being de facto enemies of the state.

There are apparently no limits to how far the elites in Toronto will go, to maintain their rule on behalf of the narrowly invested entrenched interests

Confederation is a failed state, the Americans are in, the French can leave whenever they please, the Indian Act is apartheid.

All that is left is these entrenched interests, corporations, unions, wealthy dynasties, and the elites who protect them from the masses.

Edited August 26, 2019 by Dougie93

[-TSS-]

I think the reason which has kept the USA together is that it is a superpower. If the USA disintegrated to 50 separate independent countries all of them would be in some way worse off than what they are now and none of them alone could be a superpower.

There is no such a case in Canada. In Canada you can speculate that if all the Canadian provinces became independent countries that some of them would be far worse off than they are now but some would be better off.

[Dougie93]

16 minutes ago, -TSS- said:

I think the reason which has kept the USA together is that it is a superpower. If the USA disintegrated to 50 separate independent countries all of them would be in some way worse off than what they are now and none of them alone could be a superpower.

There is no such a case in Canada. In Canada you can speculate that if all the Canadian provinces became independent countries that some of them would be far worse off than they are now but some would be better off.

America is a superpower only because of the Flight to Quality. 

American freedom is not perfect, but it's freer than everybody else, which incites wealth to flee to America, making them powerful, superpowerful in fact.

There is no Flight to Quality to Canada, because Canada is a confiscatory police state with no property rights, so wealth does not flee to Canada.

All of Canada's wealth is just arbitrage to American freedom, the Americans are rich and powerful, the elites in Canada dine out on that and rely on it to protect them.

Edited August 26, 2019 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

Ah, Maxime Bernier is starting to turn me towards voting for him, keep going Maxime, you're getting closer.

 

[Dougie93]

Not that I dislike immigrants mind you,  but "totalitarian leftist mob", now we're getting somewhere; kick Ottawa to the Curb, Toronto too.

[Yzermandius19]

2 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

Ah, Maxime Bernier is starting to turn me towards voting for him, keep going Maxime, you're getting closer.

 

Yeah, me too. I'll either vote accelerationist and vote Trudeau, or vote Bernier, just because they elites in Downtown Toronto won't even let him advertise, and instead of cowering he's calling them out on it.

How dare they pretend that billboard is hate speech? What ridiculousness.

[Dougie93]

20 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Yeah, me too. I'll either vote accelerationist and vote Trudeau, or vote Bernier, just because they elites in Downtown Toronto won't even let him advertise, and instead of cowering he's calling them out on it.

How dare they pretend that billboard is hate speech? What ridiculousness.

They have no chance of winning in this riding, on the other hand Mad Max is articulating things which I agree with,  and the local candidate here seems to be a very reasonable and well spoken fellow who is making a good faith effort.

He's not actually much of a right winger at all, he's some bleeding heart who helps disabled children.

[-TSS-]

I don't think secession from the union is a very popular policy in any US-state unlike in a couple of Canadian provinces.

[Dougie93]

20 minutes ago, -TSS- said:

I don't think secession from the union is a very popular policy in any US-state unlike in a couple of Canadian provinces.

It's popular with all sorts of Americans, the consequences simply loom large over them, because of the Civil War.

The issue was decided by war.  Can you secede from the Union by vote?  No.  Why not?   Abraham Lincoln says so,

To avoid this sort of thing, to wit Quebec trying to leave inciting a civil war, the British Crown allows for them to leave,  so long as it is by peaceful democratic self determination under a clear question in a referendum, now affirmed by rendered judgement of the Supreme Court of Canada.

Alberta could go by these means too, but unlikely they will ever have the votes. So it will have to be Quebec who goes first,

Edited August 26, 2019 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

In fact, after Quebec goes first, I don't think it will actually be Alberta who goes second, I think it will be the sleeper, which is British Columbia.

Edited August 26, 2019 by Dougie93

[cougar]

On 7/19/2019 at 5:28 AM, QuebecOverCanada said:

I'm totally for separation of Québec if Trud¸eau is reelected too.

I am totally for the separation of BC, no matter who wins, too.

[Dougie93]

See?   It's actually BC which is being "separatist" in the West, they are the ones blocking Alberta,  BC will go after Quebec.

[Nefarious Banana]

As mentioned before . . .

Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta, British Columbia, Yukon, and northern territories . . . . viable country with Asian and European access. All the food and fuel to get it done.

Quebec and Ontario need the west more than the west needs them. Who gives a rat's ass about them anyway ?

[Nefarious Banana]

1 hour ago, cougar said:

I am totally for the separation of BC, no matter who wins, too.

Never happen . . . not without an overwhelming push from Alta, Sask, and Man !