The road to 2020

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Mealy mouth stuff just ends you up with a mouthful of porridge.

I wouldn't know. 

What if those other Americans are opening fire on other Americans?

Edited November 5, 2020 by bcsapper

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, WestCanMan said:

Do you think Trump was already POTUS when he made that comment beside his daughter? Was the media really that friendly with him after June of 2016?

 

Trump has been hated by certain political elements of the Left for DECADES. Trump is the ultimate Kulak. Get rid of him and the Communist Utopia can begin.

[Infidel Dog]

Here's some more info for whoever it was who thought poll watchers were getting free and open access to the count in Pennsylvania:

 

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, bcsapper said:

I wouldn't know. 

What if those other Americans are opening fire on other Americans?

 

Again...your word games will make little sense in the middle of some battlefield once ANY shooting starts. 

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, BeaverFever said:

No. 
 

Deciding whether a plan will cover an expense for anyone who has coverage is not the same as the Rights supposed made up death panels that would deny treatment to specific people who they don't deem worthy 

Wait lists - where they even occur - are prioritized based on the patient’s medical necessity not whether the specific person “deserves” the cost of treatment due to age  or having  had ‘too many’ treatments already .  And it’s not decided by any panel or government body it’s simply the treatment providers determination 
 

Again instead of trying to  point to things that have always been part of the American insurance industry please show me what new “death panels”  came about because of Obamacare. 

You provided the info about death panels. I personally don't care about death panels because I understand how life and budgets work.

If there's no 'death panel' of any sort then medicare will just be pie in the sky, because it will never be affordable. 

I've watched ER shows where trauma surgeons just assessed people, like motorcycle accident victims, and decided that they were too far gone and that treatment wouldn't save them. Some people might think: "Why not get out your scalpel ya lazy bastard and just skip your coffee break?" Because people make tough calls like that all the time. It's just life.

During C19 hospitals cut off all 'elective surgeries'. In some cases that includes cancer treatments. Tough decisions. Life. What do you want me to say? That we should spend money like it's going out of style for minimal returns? I'd never say that. I think that 'death panels' exist, or they should, and that they are necessary, and they should be secret because not everyone can handle that info. 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Again...your word games will make little sense in the middle of some battlefield once ANY shooting starts. 

You said Americans would not want to shoot on other Americans.  No word games.  If those Americans are shooting each other, the military will have to pick sides.

I just hope they don't pick the side of the moron who started it all.

Edited November 5, 2020 by bcsapper

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, bcsapper said:

You said Americans would not want to shoot on other Americans.  No word games.  If those Americans are shooting each other, the military will have to pick sides.

I hope they don't pick the moron's side, is all.

 

As I've mentioned before...First Bull Run in 1861...the start...was treated as a big party with picnicking encouraged. They built bleachers to better watch the battle. You know what happened next, I assume...

Shiloh...a huge brawl in 1862...was fought by men on both sides who had never before held a weapon anymore dangerous than a pocket knife. But, by golly...they got the job done.

Now imagine that shit...only with modern everything.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

As I've mentioned before...First Bull Run in 1861...the start...was treated as a big party with picnicking encouraged. They built bleachers to better watch the battle. You know what happened next, I assume...

Shiloh...a huge brawl in 1862...was fought by men on both sides who had never before held a weapon anymore dangerous than a pocket knife. But, by golly...they got the job done.

Now imagine that shit...only with modern everything.

I guess we just have to hope that sanity prevails, and losers lose with grace.  On either side.

[Shady]

The infighting between the Dems over the election debacle has already begun! 

Ive never seen a side so demoralized that’s probably won the White House.  But when you fail to take the senate, possibly lose the house, and only control 40% of state legislatures in a redistricting year when polls made you believe there was a blue wave coming, tensions will get high.

 

[BeaverFever]

3 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Trump has been hated by certain political elements of the Left for DECADES. Trump is the ultimate Kulak. Get rid of him and the Communist Utopia can begin.

LMAO Decades???  Trump was a Democrat until a few years ago Einstein. He has always been hated rather generally though. 
 

Biden and Harris are communists now that’s rich. They and just about every other member of the DNC would have to run as a Conservative if they were running their platform in Canada. 

Edited November 5, 2020 by BeaverFever

[BeaverFever]

3 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

You provided the info about death panels. I personally don't care about death panels because I understand how life and budgets work.

If there's no 'death panel' of any sort then medicare will just be pie in the sky, because it will never be affordable. 

I've watched ER shows where trauma surgeons just assessed people, like motorcycle accident victims, and decided that they were too far gone and that treatment wouldn't save them. Some people might think: "Why not get out your scalpel ya lazy bastard and just skip your coffee break?" Because people make tough calls like that all the time. It's just life.

During C19 hospitals cut off all 'elective surgeries'. In some cases that includes cancer treatments. Tough decisions. Life. What do you want me to say? That we should spend money like it's going out of style for minimal returns? I'd never say that. I think that 'death panels' exist, or they should, and that they are necessary, and they should be secret because not everyone can handle that info. 

There’s no death panels and no that doesn’t make medicare unaffordable. People don’t just get open heart surgery for the fun of it.   The people who need it get it and the number of people who need it is relatively small compared to the general so it’s affordable to provide it all of them if it’s that the treatment that’s required 

None of what you say has anything to do with the conservatives’ fantasy death panels. A doctor not operating on someone who can’t be saved isn’t this fantasy death panel, why don’t you just admit it and let it go. 

[DogOnPorch]

41 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

LMAO Decades???  Trump was a Democrat until a few years ago Einstein. He has always been hated rather generally though. 
 

Biden and Harris are communists now that’s rich. They and just about every other member of the DNC would have to run as a Conservative if they were running their platform in Canada. 

 

Nope...decades...as Doonesbury can testify.

Harris is the one bandying about everyone having the same outcome as well as equity over equality. That's Marxist/Communist talk. I don't care what else you'd like to call it. We can bet Bernie, AOC & friends will have a big influence in any winning election. Especially once Joe gets sent to the old politician's home.

A certain section of the population are longtime followers of the Orange Meanie. Many people got rich off of Trump and his ideas. I know that bugs a socialist to the core. How dare he!

Greed is good.

How is Albert, btw?

 

[Argus]

6 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

If there were only some way for you to gather us all into one place. A camp perhaps.

I was thinking a nice island in the Pacific.

[Argus]

6 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

He can click on the link (on Shaw, myself)

What he can not do...nor can I...is get Fox News as part of a regular package. You have to pay extra...a lot extra...CNN, mind you, comes with basic cable.

And lots of movie channels cost $3.95 but if you want one of the porn channels, which feature cheaply made movies with 'actors'  making almost no money, that costs $20 bucks.

Go figure. ?‍♂️

Incidentally, FOX is part of my news package and sits next to CNN on the regular cable tier.

Edited November 6, 2020 by Argus

[Argus]

5 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

Was somebody saying earlier that there were no problem with monitors observing vote counting in Pennsylvania, or something like that

They were already inside. Apparently they want to get close enough to the government employees counting the votes that they can literally breath down their necks.

By the way, how come you're not whining about the Georgia vote counting? Trump's lead keeps shrinking there. It's down to 4,000 votes with 80,000 mail-in votes still to count.

[Infidel Dog]

1 minute ago, Argus said:

They were already inside. Apparently they want to get close enough to the government employees counting the votes that they can literally breath down their necks.

Within 6 feet you mean. Apparently even with a court order your Progressive Socialist Coup guards are having a problem with that.

 

[Infidel Dog]

20 minutes ago, Argus said:

By the way, how come you're not whining about the Georgia vote counting? Trump's lead keeps shrinking there. It's down to 4,000 votes with 80,000 mail-in votes still to count.

Who says I'm not?

The actions of this Soros plant style of a Georgia "judge" tells me we need to be suspicious of coup activity there too.

Quote

CHATHAM COUNTY, Ga. - A Georgia judge has dismissed a lawsuit by the state Republican Party and President Donald Trump's campaign that asked him to ensure a coastal county was following state laws on processing absentee ballots.

Chatham County Superior Court Judge James Bass did not provide an explanation for his decision Thursday at the close of a roughly one-hour hearing. Chatham County includes the heavily Democratic city of Savannah.

https://www.fox26houston.com/news/chatham-county-judge-dismisses-trump-campaign-lawsuit

[BeaverFever]

1 hour ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Nope...decades...as Doonesbury can testify.

Harris is the one bandying about everyone having the same outcome as well as equity over equality. That's Marxist/Communist talk. I don't care what else you'd like to call it. We can bet Bernie, AOC & friends will have a big influence in any winning election. Especially once Joe gets sent to the old politician's home.

A certain section of the population are longtime followers of the Orange Meanie. Many people got rich off of Trump and his ideas. I know that bugs a socialist to the core. How dare he!

Greed is good.

How is Albert, btw?

 

ha! Trump is an incompetent idiot who rips off his clients and has only staved off financial ruin from mysterious loans coming due in the next few years, and of course his income from the Apprentice which is a business he doesn’t control.   And yes he was a registered Democrat from 2001 to 2009 ....until they made a black guy president 
 

Bernie, AOC and the entire left wing are persona non grata in the DNC which unfortunately is a centrist establishment party and Biden-Harris are centrist establishment candidates 
 

 

[BeaverFever]

Trump should have lost in a landslide. The fact that he didn’t speaks volumes

Nathan Robinson

 

 

Thu 5 Nov 2020 18.11 GMT

Last modified on Thu 5 Nov 2020 22.16 GMT

In the lead-up to the 2020 election, Democrats were extremely confident in Joe Biden’s prospects. With his comfortable lead in national polls, there was talk of a Biden landslide, a giant “blue wave” that could turn Texas blue. Even though the polls had been off in the 2016 election, media commentators reassuredaudiences that Biden’s lead was different – far stronger and more stable – than Hillary Clinton’s had been.

As of this writing, it does look as if Biden will squeak his way into the White House. But only just. And no “blue wave” materialized. Far from turning Texas blue, Biden appears to have severely underperformed relative to Hillary Clinton in some heavily Hispanic areas. Democrats have not retaken the US Senate and failed to knock out a single Republican in the House of Representatives. Millions more people voted for Trump than in 2016, and it became disturbingly clear that even if Trump himself is booted from office, “Trumpism” is alive and well.

There was no need for it to be this way. Donald Trump has badly mishandled the coronavirus pandemic, which has killed hundreds of thousands of Americans. The economy is in recession. The Republican war on the Affordable Care Act seems more heartless than ever as millions lose their insurance.

Trump did not run a good campaign. He botched the first debate. He squanderedhis campaign cash. His messaging against Joe Biden was unfocused and often incoherent, simultaneously trying to paint him as a radical Antifa-sympathizing socialist and a corrupt corporate establishment figure. At a time when the economy was voters’ No 1 issue, Trump was focused on the emails of Biden’s ne’er-do-well son, Hunter. A campaign that presented voters with a clear and compelling alternative should have easily defeated Trump.

But Biden didn’t offer a clear and compelling alternative. He was a weak candidate from the start, so much so that even some of his allies were worried what would happen if he won the primary. Biden, like Hillary Clinton before him, represented the corporate wing of the Democratic party; he loudly defended the private health insurance industry and the fracking industry from attacks by the left. He ran away from proposals favored by the Democratic base like Medicare for All and the Green New Deal. He didn’t show much interest in courting core constituencies like Latino voters (reportedly, the Biden campaign did not consider them part of its “path to victory”, which helps explain the losses in Texas and Florida). Biden didn’t even put much energy into the campaign; at crucial moments when Trump’s team were knocking on a million doors a week, Biden’s was reportedly knocking on zero. His ground game in important swing states like Michigan was “invisible”.

To many on the left, then, Biden’s lackluster performance is no surprise. Yes, Trump could have been resoundingly defeated. But 2016 proved once and for all that the Democratic establishment simply doesn’t have a message that can effectively counter Trump. The party leadership ignored the lessons that should have been learned four years ago. Instead, Democratic strategy is the very definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

We know how Democrats can win again. Thomas Frank, in his vital book, Listen, Liberal: Or, What Ever Happened to the Party of the People?, explains that Democrats need to get back to being a party that offers something meaningful to working people. We know that voting Republican is no indication that voters actually want the agenda the Republican party will pursue in office. Fox News polling indicates voters want universal healthcare, abortion rights and a pathway to citizenship for unauthorized immigrants. Florida voters, even as they selected Donald Trump, also opted to increase the state’s minimum wage to $15 an hour. The Democrats do not need to propose insipid half-measures when the data indicates that the public are fully on board with a progressive agenda.

This is why many of us on the left were pushing so hard for Bernie Sanders in the Democratic primary. We believed that he had a winning formula for combating Trumpism, that the conventional wisdom that centrism is “pragmatic” was totally upside down. Bernie knew how to speak to Trump’s own voters, he could go to a Fox town hall and have the attendees cheering for single-payer healthcare, or win over a crowd at Liberty University. We believed that in a general election, he would be able to move the kinds of discontented anti-establishment voters who put Trump in office, and would have dominated in the rust belt states where Biden is just barely squeaking by.

That theory is untested; we never got a chance to compare what a left candidate could do against Trump with what Clinton and Biden managed. But the disappointing Democratic performances in both 2016 and 2020 should tell us that something is deeply, troublingly wrong with the party. A reality TV clown who supports policies most Americans hate (eg tax cuts for the rich) should not be coming anywhere near winning a presidential election. Yet he is. Why?

Blaming the voters simply will not do. This is a failure of leadership. Those responsible for it need to be held accountable. Unfortunately, it looks like some in the party will learn the wrong lessons. Even though dozens of democratic socialists won their elections this year while centrists struggled, there is a contingent among Democrats whose solution to any problem is the same: become more like Republicans.

Already, there is talk that they need to embrace tax cuts and run away from the “socialism” label. In other words, double down on what they were already doing. Those who think that is the lesson may simply be “unteachable” – a word George Orwell used to describe the old British cavalry generals who still insisted on using horses long after the invention of automatic weapons, and could not be persuaded that a horse is not useful against a machine gun. Today’s Democratic leaders are like those generals. If 2016 couldn’t persuade them that they were wrong, this won’t either. Nothing ever will.

It is time for a whole new approach, not a double dose of the existing one. We need to take the right lessons from this election, the ones that didn’t take in 2016. First, don’t trust polls, and don’t get complacent or assume the tides of history will carry you to victory. Second, Trumpism will not “self-destruct”: you can’t simply run against Trump, you need a powerful alternative vision that actually gives people what they say they want and fights for something worth believing in.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/05/trump-should-have-lost-in-a-landslide-the-fact-that-he-didnt-speaks-volumes

 

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, BeaverFever said:

There’s no death panels and no that doesn’t make medicare unaffordable. People don’t just get open heart surgery for the fun of it.   The people who need it get it and the number of people who need it is relatively small compared to the general so it’s affordable to provide it all of them if it’s that the treatment that’s required 

If Hannity said it exists, I have no reason to doubt it, and I don't even see where you provided a reason why I would doubt it. I'm just not personally offended by it. 

If you think you have some proof that it doesn't exist then show it, but Obama's word for it obviously doesn't mean Jack S. You'll have to find some other way.

Quote

None of what you say has anything to do with the conservatives’ fantasy death panels. A doctor not operating on someone who can’t be saved isn’t this fantasy death panel, why don’t you just admit it and let it go. 

It's the same principal. Doctors make decisions based on time and whatever other resources they have on hand. Just because you have something that's curable doesn't mean that the guy you're talking to can or will cure you.

Do you think you know for sure when you get a fatal diagnosis here that a former President or a billionaire would die of the same thing? Don't kid yourself.

If you get C19 do you think that you'll have the same chance of surviving as Trump had? Go fish.

You might be better off staying at home anyways though, you have a better chance of being killed by a medical mistake than you do of dying from C19 in the USA, even in 2020. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html

Over 20% of America's deaths are from cancer, unless you're a former President, then it's 2.5%. Just 1 out of 39 so far. There should have been around 8. Granted 4 died of gunshot wounds, so it's more like 1/35. 2.8%.

You have too much faith in the medical profession BF.

[Argus]

13 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

Who says I'm not?

The actions of this Soros plant style of a Georgia "judge" tells me we need to be suspicious of coup activity there too.

Ah, okay. And Nevada?

[OftenWrong]

38 minutes ago, Argus said:

I was thinking a nice island in the Pacific.

I'd like to request St. Helena, if possible.

[Argus]

6 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Trump should have lost in a landslide. The fact that he didn’t speaks volumes

Some of that is true, and much of it isn't. The Democrats decided right from the first not to do door knocking because of covid. A mistake? Maybe. They didn't work hard enough with Hispanics. But if you think Bernie Sanders would have won the battleground states that are still in play you're kidding yourself. Even winning states already taken like Michigan and Arizona would have been virtually impossible. And Sanders appeal to Black voters who make up a significant portion of the Democratic party is nearly zero. And not much better with Hispanics.

[Infidel Dog]

5 minutes ago, Argus said:

Ah, okay. And Nevada?

Read the next post after that one.

[Infidel Dog]

Trump just finished speaking. Among other things he wants some answers on how he was winning, then they supposedly shut the polls down for the night, everybody went to sleep, woke up and discovered his win had flipped to become Biden's.

He explains it all better: