Brexit from the European Union.

[-TSS-]

Perhaps it is over for the United Kingdom. A name I usually don't use of that country because it is rubbish. I always say Britain which is a proper name when as united and kingdom are just two ordinary words. 

However, if there can be an independent Ireland there is no reason why there couldn't be an independent Scotland. 

In the independence-referendum 5 years ago anti-independence only won because old people scaremongered that they would lose their pensions, not because the people of Scotland would feel special attachment to an artificial union. 

If the Scots love the EU so much why wouldn't they be allowed into the EU as an independent country? 

[Dougie93]

2 minutes ago, -TSS- said:

Perhaps it is over for the United Kingdom. A name I usually don't use of that country because it is rubbish. I always say Britain which is a proper name when as united and kingdom are just two ordinary words. 

However, if there can be an independent Ireland there is no reason why there couldn't be an independent Scotland. 

In the independence-referendum 5 years ago anti-independence only won because old people scaremongered that they would lose their pensions, not because the people of Scotland would feel special attachment to an artificial union. 

If the Scots love the EU so much why wouldn't they be allowed into the EU as an independent country? 

The United Kingdom is born of the Glorious  Revolution of 1688.

The Dutch Regent William of Orange instituted Parliamentary Supremacy, then he set about to defend the British Isles from an invasion by the bulwark of the Papists, the Bourbon French.

Ireland was seen as a launching pad for the Papists to invade, so the House of Orange took it at the Battle of the Boyne.

The Scots were Papists allies of the French, so the House of Orange conquered them to block the French as well.

We Orangemen consolidated our position in 1707, by founding the United Kingdom.

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, Dougie93 said:

Exactly, Parliamentary Supremacy is democratic representation but it's not a Democracy.

The UK is paralyzed because May was weak kneed, time to put a bit of stick about, the Queen's Executive's job is to execute not dither.

UK parliament was hijacked by foreign interests. They are not working in the best interests of the people. The people spoke out in the referendum question on Brexit - The UK must leave the EU. God save the Queen.

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, -TSS- said:

If the Scots love the EU so much why wouldn't they be allowed into the EU as an independent country? 

Because Scots have been pussy-whipped into subjugation for so many years, they have lost their sense of self-determination. The few Scotsman I know, all old men, are quite fearful of the idea that Scotland could "go it alone". Presumably there are a lot of traitors who would undermine the regime, in favour of their ties to British nobility.

Didn't you see the movie "Braveheart"?

[-TSS-]

It is quite interesting how the attitude towards the European Union has changed over the past quarter of a century. When we in Finland had the EU-referendum in 1994 it was the left who campaigned against the EU and the media ridiculed them saying that look how those stupid commies are clinging onto the past.

Of course in the case of Finland we were scaremongered that unless we join Russia will swallow us.

After the membership it was for many years that it was mostly the left-wingers who were against and critical of the EU.

However, something changed in the early 2000's. Not only in Finland but elsewhere in Europe as well. Little by little there was a change and in 2016 it was the lefties who denounced Brexit as a terrible victory for fascism.

These days being anti-EU is little short of hate-speech which in our modern times of the clown-world is the most serious crime of all.

 

[Dougie93]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

UK parliament was hijacked by foreign interests. They are not working in the best interests of the people. The people spoke out in the referendum question on Brexit - The UK must leave the EU. God save the Queen.

I think Boris Johnson is a patriotic Briton, and I like his style, the votes are already in, the people rejected the EU, Johnson says he is going to execute that where May was trying to fudge it, so I am satisfied that the Queen's Executive at least is ignoring the undemocratic and so illegitimate opposition,  exactly as you said.

God save the Queen, for she defends the right, that right being Parliamentary Supremacy by the Glorious Revolution of  1688.

[Michael Hardner]

12 hours ago, -TSS- said:

It is quite interesting how the attitude towards the European Union has changed over the past quarter of a century. When we in Finland had the EU-referendum in 1994 it was the left who campaigned against the EU and the media ridiculed them saying that look how those stupid commies are clinging onto the past. 

In Canada also.  The CBC now positions NAFTA as good for Canada.

This could be because it has proven to be, or because liberals naturally believe frightened academics over economics experts and economic experts over corporate spokespeople and corporate spokespeople over Trump.

[Zeitgeist]

Britain is cutting off her nose to spite her face.  They’re trading greater access to opportunity for greater control, but everyone I know in Britain is trying to figure out how they can retain that access, perhaps through a relative’s Irish passport.  

[Dougie93]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

In Canada also.  The CBC now positions NAFTA as good for Canada.

This could be because it has proven to be, or because liberals naturally believe frightened academics over economics experts and economic experts over corporate spokespeople and corporate spokespeople over Trump.

NAFTA wasn't actually good for Canada, the entrenched interests in the provinces remain protected while the majority are not, but more significantly, Canadian Confederation was supposed to be an east - west trading block to keep the Americans out, instead it is  ten north - south regimes trading with the Americans while cutting each other's throats  to compete for a slice of the abritrage with the integrated market.

Not that I care anymore for the Canadian interest, NAFTA does nothing for me, but it doesn't harm my interests, it harms Confederation, but I am happy to jettison it now.

[Zeitgeist]

33 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

NAFTA wasn't actually good for Canada, the entrenched interests in the provinces remain protected while the majority are not, but more significantly, Canadian Confederation was supposed to be an east - west trading block to keep the Americans out, instead it is  ten north - south regimes trading with the Americans while cutting each other's throats  to compete for a slice of the abritrage with the integrated market.

Not that I care anymore for the Canadian interest, NAFTA does nothing for me, but it doesn't harm my interests, it harms Confederation, but I am happy to jettison it now.

You just care about whomever is most powerful.  Canadians are looking out for their interests across many fronts.  NAFTA is a compromise, as is any trade deal.  Many Brits were unhappy with the EU and I suspect more will be unhappy after Britain leaves it. 

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

You just care about whomever is most powerful.

Actually the opposite, I favor the individual over the state, it is you who favor the powerful, you're the Company Man, you don't even distinguish between interests of the state and the interests of the individual, to you they are one and the same, otherwise known as totalitarianism.

[OftenWrong]

15 hours ago, -TSS- said:

However, something changed in the early 2000's. Not only in Finland but elsewhere in Europe as well. Little by little there was a change and in 2016 it was the lefties who denounced Brexit as a terrible victory for fascism.

Perhaps we are all just sheep, divided arbitrarily 2 factions, then manipulated to believe whatever they want us to believe. They being the Globalists, the uber-elite, not even the 1%. Bilberbergs, blue blood, unseen and to us, unknown.   

[-TSS-]

I wonder why Corbyn has jumped on the remoaner-bandwagon. Or more accurately he has promised a new referendum if he becomes PM, which means he is a remoaner. There already was a referendum and the remoaners lost but refuse to accept defeat.

Of course, Corbyn thinks joining the remoaners is a winning ticket and will propel him to the number10 but I wonder how he has arrived at that conclusion. Namely, in Labour-constituencies people voted more leave than the national average.

However, both main parties are divided right in the middle over the issue of Brexit and may be destroyed altogether. There is clearly a realignment happening in British politics. On one side there will be Farage's party and on the other side there will be the LibDems whio are 100% remain.

[Dougie93]

Indeed, the Remoaners need their own party, a Corbyn government would be such a clown show, the Remoaners would simply discredit themselves by hitching to his commie wagon.

[OftenWrong]

What we are seeing is high drama, the very future of the Britons is at stake. The time has come for them to defend their sovereignity. Arise ye Britons! And all ye men who wear Kilts! There may not be another chance to defend the Kingdom.

[taxme]

On 8/28/2019 at 11:02 AM, -TSS- said:

So, Johnson asked the queen to prorogue Parliament for a time being and the queen always does what she is told by politicians. All the remoaners have gone apeshit about today's events.

Actually, this is a very telling example how in a system where there is no written constitution you can actually invent rules as things develop.

let the "remoaners" go all ape shit and let them go eat ape turd cake. 

[Dougie93]

2 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

What we are seeing is high drama, the very future of the Britons is at stake. The time has come for them to defend their sovereignity. Arise ye Britons! And all ye men who wear Kilts! There may not be another chance to defend the Kingdom.

 

[taxme]

20 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

 

There is nothing like marching towards your enemy and your death without any kind of retaliation while the other side stands their ground and starts shooting and not gets shot at. Pretty stupid move on the part of the British commanders, don't you think? March to your death for queen and country. 

[Dougie93]

8 minutes ago, taxme said:

There is nothing like marching towards your enemy and your death without any kind of retaliation while the other side stands their ground and starts shooting and not gets shot at. Pretty stupid move on the part of the British commanders, don't you think? March to your death for queen and country. 

Would I have marched to my death for George III?  Probably not, I would have done what Barry Lyndon did and join the Kings German Legions, because they paid better.

Would I march to my death for Elizabeth Windsor? Not eagerly, but none the less without hesitation upon Order in Council signed by the Commander-in-Chief.

It's all about the oaths that you take, classical liberal limited government conservatism relies on men of quality holding to the oaths they take of their own free will.

[Dougie93]

It's funny how Taxme invokes some sort of British entho-nationalist state, which is not only the opposite of what British means, Taxme himself is not even British.

British is not a race, British is not a place, British is simply a system of governance called Parliamentary Supremacy and the men of quality who are prepared to kill and die to defend it.

[taxme]

25 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

It's funny how Taxme invokes some sort of British entho-nationalist state, which is not only the opposite of what British means, Taxme himself is not even British.

British is not a race, British is not a place, British is simply a system of governance called Parliamentary Supremacy and the men of quality who are prepared to kill and die to defend it.

I am Canadian and my British ancestors came to Canada from Britain. Anyone who was born in Britain will call themselves British just like anyone born in Canada will call themselves Canadian. I know dam well that there is no such a place as British. What a silly reply. Sometimes you are quite good at rambling on and really can leave with what you have said a bit confusing or at times not making much sense at all. Go die for whomever you want too. Just saying. 

[Dougie93]

11 minutes ago, taxme said:

Just saying.

Right back atchas, you can take or leave it, sunshine, it's no skin off my teeth. /shrugs

[Argus]

On 8/28/2019 at 5:31 PM, OftenWrong said:

Because Scots have been pussy-whipped into subjugation for so many years, they have lost their sense of self-determination. The few Scotsman I know, all old men, are quite fearful of the idea that Scotland could "go it alone". Presumably there are a lot of traitors who would undermine the regime, in favour of their ties to British nobility.

Didn't you see the movie "Braveheart"?

Ninety percent of Scotland is made up of women and people who act like women. If they were attacked today they'd be painting their faces like girls and running away, not towards the invaders.

[Argus]

On 8/29/2019 at 9:15 AM, Zeitgeist said:

Britain is cutting off her nose to spite her face.  They’re trading greater access to opportunity for greater control, but everyone I know in Britain is trying to figure out how they can retain that access, perhaps through a relative’s Irish passport.  

An independent UK will inevitably have a trade deal with the EU. It's in both party's interests. The reason they haven't been able to get one is simply that the EU will not offer them anything as long as they think they'll be able to keep them in the EU without. You have a whole horde of MPs demanding the government refuse to leave without a deal and all that does is make the EU giggle in amusement. Why on earth would they give anyone a deal under such circumstances?

[Zeitgeist]

16 minutes ago, Argus said:

An independent UK will inevitably have a trade deal with the EU. It's in both party's interests. The reason they haven't been able to get one is simply that the EU will not offer them anything as long as they think they'll be able to keep them in the EU without. You have a whole horde of MPs demanding the government refuse to leave without a deal and all that does is make the EU giggle in amusement. Why on earth would they give anyone a deal under such circumstances?

Well Johnson is determined to let it play out, with or without a deal, really without one because no new deal is being offered and the Parliament rejected the previous deal.  Gutsy, but perhaps foolish.  If they can wring out a deal with the EU of essentially free trade without EU membership, that’s fine.  It’s essentially NAFTA, which is actually quite boring and less opportunistic than what they had with complete freedom of movement and employment anywhere in the EU.  If the issue is Brussels overreach into national affairs, that should be the fight.  Brexit should just be the real threat that brings radical reform.  Instead it’s likely to result in Brexit, and I don’t see a lot of upside.