Brexit from the European Union.

[OftenWrong]

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Ah ok.  You got your information from elsewhere.  Do you remember where?

No. It occurred quite a while ago, so good luck finding that in this wonderful age of "information".

[Guest]

1 minute ago, OftenWrong said:

I think that Brexit is a valid statement. Brexit is a voice that should be heard. At the point after the democratic referendum, that is what we are talking about, and what really happened. Just because you don't agree with Brexit doesn't make it Cameron's fault.

It was Cameron's fault regardless of whether one agrees with it or not.  If democracy is key, let's have another referendum now that people realize how dumb it is, and how they were lied to in the run up to the last one, and how they aren't going to get even remotely what they thought they were going to get anyway.

[OftenWrong]

12 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

It was Cameron's fault regardless of whether one agrees with it or not.  If democracy is key, let's have another referendum now that people realize how dumb it is, and how they were lied to in the run up to the last one, and how they aren't going to get even remotely what they thought they were going to get anyway.

I'm sure the people who want brexit wholeheartedly disagree with you that it is Cameron's "fault", or that Brexit is wrong or undemocratic, or that there should be a do-over just because people don't like the answer. Shall we keep doing do-overs until the referendum gives you the preferred result? Rubbish

If anything it's Cameron's fault that he had to resign, and not get to deliver Brexit. If that is what you mean then yes, it is. May still had the opportunity to use the majority her party had, but in a most bizarre and stupid move she gave that up. That created even more chaos than Brexit itself, and now there is only confusion about the direction. From there on, Brexit is undermined. I can only imagine the EU is against Brexit.

Next up might be mad Boris Johnson, will be interesting if he takes the helm I'd bet.

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

I'm sure the people who want brexit wholeheartedly disagree with you that it is Cameron's "fault", or that Brexit is wrong or undemocratic, or that there should be a do-over just because people don't like the answer. Shall we keep doing do-overs until the referendum gives you the preferred result? Rubbish

Well, Quebec is going to, and so is Scotland.  Probably Wales too, when they get their act together.

If anything it's Cameron's fault that he had to resign, and not get to deliver Brexit. If that is what you mean then yes, it is. May still had the opportunity to use the majority her party had, but in a most bizarre and stupid move she gave that up. That created even more chaos than Brexit itself, and now there is only confusion about the direction. From there on, Brexit is undermined. I can only imagine the EU is against Brexit.

Next up might be mad Boris Johnson, will be interesting if he takes the helm I'd bet.

But that's not my point.  No-one knew what Brexit entailed in the run up to the referendum, and no-one was telling them.  What they did get was misinformation and outright lies, and a large dose of "deplorables, etc" from  ignorant elites that only served to get out the vote. 

Same as what's happening now.  Every milkshake that hits Nigel Farage adds thousands of votes for the Brexit party.

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

No. It occurred quite a while ago, so good luck finding that in this wonderful age of "information".

That's fine.  I'm asking people and although your opinion is a common one the answers are basically that she didn't do the job.  

[Guest]

Current EU elections in the UK seeing an almost 50/50 split between pro Brexit and anti Brexit parties.  It would have been interesting to see an actual "Remain" party form in the way Nigel Farage put together the Brexit party to focus the opinion more.  Nevertheless, Jeremy Corbyn has come out in favour of either a second referendum or a general election based on the performance of the two main parties.

[OftenWrong]

2 hours ago, bcsapper said:

But that's not my point.  No-one knew what Brexit entailed in the run up to the referendum, and no-one was telling them.  What they did get was misinformation and outright lies, and a large dose of "deplorables, etc" from  ignorant elites that only served to get out the vote. 

Same as what's happening now.  Every milkshake that hits Nigel Farage adds thousands of votes for the Brexit party.

Surely they DO know enough by now, yet there are many who still support it. And growing as you point out, so it isn't going to go away just yet. This is a real thing peopl ebelieve and want, not a mistake.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, OftenWrong said:

Surely they DO know enough by now, yet there are many who still support it. And growing as you point out, so it isn't going to go away just yet. This is a real thing peopl ebelieve and want, not a mistake.

It's not going away.  I have diametrically opposed family members who have not changed their minds one bit.  Still, I think many people have realised that they weren't fully aware of what Brexit actually meant, in terms of process and result.  They know now, as you say, and I would support another say on the issue.

[OftenWrong]

17 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

That's fine.  I'm asking people and although your opinion is a common one the answers are basically that she didn't do the job.  

What are you trying to say now, what opinion of mine is a common one? I said she failed to do the job, in part because she lost power by her own blundering, but in addition there are many forces at play here.

[Michael Hardner]

26 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

What are you trying to say now, what opinion of mine is a common one? I said she failed to do the job, in part because she lost power by her own blundering, but in addition there are many forces at play here.

  That the PM screwed this up.  That she failed.  
  I feel that she was handed an impossible situation, but others are saying that someone else would have been successful.

[kactus]

On 5/27/2019 at 2:31 AM, bcsapper said:

Current EU elections in the UK seeing an almost 50/50 split between pro Brexit and anti Brexit parties.  It would have been interesting to see an actual "Remain" party form in the way Nigel Farage put together the Brexit party to focus the opinion more.  Nevertheless, Jeremy Corbyn has come out in favour of either a second referendum or a general election based on the performance of the two main parties.

Liberal Democrats is an actual remain party although never been a serious contender to Tories and Labour. Corbyn is a too complex character and quite frankly one doesn't know what his policies stand for.

With May gone in June, Boris and Jeremy Hunt are the only serious contenders for prime ministerial role but I don’t think anyone is capable to handle the Brexit situation. IMO, the best way forward is a second referendum.

[taxme]

On 5/13/2019 at 11:30 AM, Pacifica77 said:

This Brexit thing has been seriously mismanaged........and  as time passes   the sides involved  harden their views./positions.

 

Perhaps  pushing the pause button  is wise........so all parties can clear their thoughts   and clarify their objectives.

There was a referendum on Brexit. The for Brexit exit voters won that referendum fair and square and they want out of the EU. It is their own politicians who are trying to stop Brexit. The international establishment globalist elite do not want a Brexit, and they are trying whatever they can to stop Brexit. They own the conservative party, a party that has giving the finger to the people who voted for Brexit.  No need for a pause button. The vote already has been taken and the Brexiters are being denied their Brexit. This is typical of how communism works, and not democracy, that is going on here. 

[taxme]

On 5/26/2019 at 6:31 PM, bcsapper said:

Current EU elections in the UK seeing an almost 50/50 split between pro Brexit and anti Brexit parties.  It would have been interesting to see an actual "Remain" party form in the way Nigel Farage put together the Brexit party to focus the opinion more.  Nevertheless, Jeremy Corbyn has come out in favour of either a second referendum or a general election based on the performance of the two main parties.

The vote to leave the EU is over. The majority who voted for Brexit are now being denied that Brexit. This is just another case of the minority trying to run and rule over the majority and trying to deny the majority their right to Brexit. Minorities must never be allowed to run and rule over the majority as they are done today. Minorities always get their own way, and that is never good for any country. Here in Canada minorities have always ruled over and have told the majority as to how things will be and get done. This needs to end.  

[Guest]

5 hours ago, taxme said:

The vote to leave the EU is over. The majority who voted for Brexit are now being denied that Brexit. This is just another case of the minority trying to run and rule over the majority and trying to deny the majority their right to Brexit. Minorities must never be allowed to run and rule over the majority as they are done today. Minorities always get their own way, and that is never good for any country. Here in Canada minorities have always ruled over and have told the majority as to how things will be and get done. This needs to end.  

Sure.  Let's have another referendum so the majority gets a chance to get its way.

[taxme]

15 hours ago, bcsapper said:

Sure.  Let's have another referendum so the majority gets a chance to get its way.

Ridiculous. Spend millions more of taxpayer's tax dollars for something that has already been decided. And what happens if the Brexit supporters win again? Have another referendum? The politicians won't mind spending millions more on another referendum. Taxpayer's tax dollars at work. What is going on here is a prime example of what loser liberals and socialists are like? If they cannot win or get their way then they go about stamping their feet like children on the ground and cry like the babies that they are. And the Brexiters also have to deal with the globalist communist traitor politicians who refuse to abide by the Brexit referendum. Politicians "ARE" and always will be the problem. 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, taxme said:

Ridiculous. Spend millions more of taxpayer's tax dollars for something that has already been decided. And what happens if the Brexit supporters win again? Have another referendum? The politicians won't mind spending millions more on another referendum. Taxpayer's tax dollars at work. What is going on here is a prime example of what loser liberals and socialists are like? If they cannot win or get their way then they go about stamping their feet like children on the ground and cry like the babies that they are. And the Brexiters also have to deal with the globalist communist traitor politicians who refuse to abide by the Brexit referendum. Politicians "ARE" and always will be the problem. 

It's not ridiculous.  Now that the British public actually know what it means, and no-one's lying to them, let them decide.  If they still want to go, I'm sure both them and Europe will survive. 

I wonder what those who originally voted to leave would have voted given May's deal.  The problem was, they were led to believe we can leave next Tuesday, and we'll save 350 million pounds a week if we do.  Think what that'll do to for the NHS! 

Sure.  It's not like they were fed a line or anything. 

Democracy's good, but as we're seeing now in more places than one, it helps to know what one is voting for. 

Edited May 30, 2019 by bcsapper

[OftenWrong]

2 hours ago, bcsapper said:

It's not ridiculous.  Now that the British public actually know what it means, and no-one's lying to them, let them decide.

That's not the way it happened. Everyone knew what it means. At the time of the referendum, nobody cared. Voter turnout was low, if I recall. Apathy is the reason, not ignorance.

[Guest]

44 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

That's not the way it happened. Everyone knew what it means. At the time of the referendum, nobody cared. Voter turnout was low, if I recall. Apathy is the reason, not ignorance.

I bet there won't be much apathy if they hold another one.

[OftenWrong]

Even if they did, there is no certainty that remain would win. The Brexit party swept the recent EU elections, although the party was formed just a few weeks ago. They got the most seats over any other UK party, by a strong margin. That's a clear indication that many people do want Brexit.

[taxme]

16 hours ago, bcsapper said:

It's not ridiculous.  Now that the British public actually know what it means, and no-one's lying to them, let them decide.  If they still want to go, I'm sure both them and Europe will survive. 

I wonder what those who originally voted to leave would have voted given May's deal.  The problem was, they were led to believe we can leave next Tuesday, and we'll save 350 million pounds a week if we do.  Think what that'll do to for the NHS! 

Sure.  It's not like they were fed a line or anything. 

Democracy's good, but as we're seeing now in more places than one, it helps to know what one is voting for. 

What does what mean? That even with a referendum won it will make no difference anyway because thanks to the political elites if they do not want it, buddy boy, you are not going to get it if we get our way. That I think now is what the British public can see now? That politicians have no problem crapping on the sheeples heads. How dare these politicians deny the right of the Brexit people their desire to leave the EU? True communism at work here alright.

As I have said many, many times before here. We the sheeple are just that to our politicians, just sheeple, to be pushed around, lied too, and shown contempt also. 

The people voted for Brexit, and that is what they knew what they were voting for. To leave the EU, period. Another referendum is bloody stupid and more tax dollars wasted. But hey. 

[OftenWrong]

5 minutes ago, taxme said:

What does what mean? That even with a referendum won it will make no difference anyway because thanks to the political elites if they do not want it, buddy boy, you are not going to get it if we get our way. That I think now is what the British public can see now? That politicians have no problem crapping on the sheeples heads. How dare these politicians deny the right of the Brexit people their desire to leave the EU? True communism at work here alright.

The UK must resist.

[taxme]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

The UK must resist.

The UK is just like Canada? All screwed up. The politicians continue over and over again to screw around with we the people and sadly the people still are allowing it to happen to themselves. How long must it take before the majority can once again take control of their lives and be able to run and rule a nation as it should be run and finally put a stop to minority special interest groups and globalist elite tyranny over the majority? Canada and the UK do really need a real leader and a real man like Trump, and not wimps and minority butt kissing politicians that we keep getting all the time. Canada truly does need real and true conservatives that will demand and fight for more freedom, less government and less taxes, and less minority butt kissing. They have to be out there somewhere. But where? 

[OftenWrong]

8 hours ago, taxme said:

The UK is just like Canada? All screwed up. The politicians continue over and over again to screw around with we the people and sadly the people still are allowing it to happen to themselves. How long must it take before the majority can once again take control of their lives and be able to run and rule a nation as it should be run and finally put a stop to minority special interest groups and globalist elite tyranny over the majority? Canada and the UK do really need a real leader and a real man like Trump, and not wimps and minority butt kissing politicians that we keep getting all the time. Canada truly does need real and true conservatives that will demand and fight for more freedom, less government and less taxes, and less minority butt kissing. They have to be out there somewhere. But where? 

The people of the UK must resist, just as the people of Canada must. Stand up and speak out against the globalists. But we are far too passive in Canada when it comes to protesting against government. The British are more vocal and more politically active. The French are going right wing now, they have endorsed Marine Le Pen. Her right-wing party won decisively over Macron, who is a liberal progressive, in the EU parliamentary elections. The French have spoken. I know the French are assholes, but they don't screw around wasting time like Canada. They want to retake control of their own country. At least they brave enough to take a bold first step away from the EU.

Vive la France, and God Save the Queen.

 

Edited May 31, 2019 by OftenWrong

[Guest]

7 hours ago, taxme said:

What does what mean? That even with a referendum won it will make no difference anyway because thanks to the political elites if they do not want it, buddy boy, you are not going to get it if we get our way. That I think now is what the British public can see now? That politicians have no problem crapping on the sheeples heads. How dare these politicians deny the right of the Brexit people their desire to leave the EU? True communism at work here alright.

As I have said many, many times before here. We the sheeple are just that to our politicians, just sheeple, to be pushed around, lied too, and shown contempt also. 

The people voted for Brexit, and that is what they knew what they were voting for. To leave the EU, period. Another referendum is bloody stupid and more tax dollars wasted. But hey. 

Oh bollocks.  The people were fed a line, and now they know.  If they get another vote they can vote the same way, can't they?  If they want to.

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, bcsapper said:

Oh bollocks.  The people were fed a line, and now they know.  If they get another vote they can vote the same way, can't they?  If they want to.

 

So how many votes should there be....best 2 out of 3...3 out of 5...or 4 out of 7 ?