Canada needs to stop being China's bitch

[DogOnPorch]

5 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

A lot of people don't realize that China also has a "Never Again" attitude about loss of sovereignty, invasion, and occupation that stems from Japanese imperialism and civil war between the nationalists and communists (Stalin actually supported the nationalists in quirky pre-WW2 alignments).

Even as a backward nation, China was very important in the Pacific theatre as it engaged and tied up Japanese resources.    Over 14 million Chinese nationals died.

The UN found this out during the Korean War.

Fast forward to today.....China is never going to let that happen again.

 

Mao's Communists couldn't be trusted to either...

a] ...not attack the Nationalists when opportunity arose.

b] ...not sit out an attack vs the Japanese when in so-called cooperation with Nationalists.

c] ...outright assist the Japanese vs the Nationalists.

I think it was General Joe Stilwell that started complaining the loudest...and insisted upon more positive action out of Mao if supplies were to continue to flow to the Communists. 

Thus the so-called 100 Regiment Offensives (1939-45)...that were supposed to show the Communist's dedication to the Allied cause...but really didn't come to anything significant until the final two years of the war where it was quite clear Japan was going to get its rear handed to itself. Best look busy...right?

[DogOnPorch]

5 minutes ago, Argus said:

It, however, doesn't have any problem with taking other people's sovereignty away from them, and invading and occupying other countries.

 

Red China is still a big believer in what Churchill dubbed Spheres of Influence. The USA is also to a lesser extent. But Cuba was a warning that we lived in a different world than Churchill's...where the Bomb set the limits of what was proper and right.

[bush_cheney2004]

4 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

..... My point is that these are complex, challenging issues to solve that will take time and concerted effort, and not just from non-Indigenous people.  We are trying to solve them, but don't make it sound like Canadian government policy today is oppressing the Indigenous.  We're all trying to find real solutions.  If you want to talk "cultural genocide" for Indigenous peoples, I can assure you that it was achieved to at least the same extent or greater in the U.S.  I won't even get into China's cultural revolution and its various treatments of minorities.  Your friend JT made it clear that Canada has clouds over its history like China.  Nevertheless, we're not trumping up undocumented reports on agriculture to ban crop imports for political reasons (canola), nor are we detaining people for unsubstantiated claims of espionage, again for political retaliation (two Canadians detained as a response to the Huawei Meng extradition, which is taking place because Canada is respecting a treaty with the US).

 

...and my point is that an ascending China doesn't give a damn about the West's "human rights" imperialism when it comes to trade policies and regional military power.   Trudeau could have settled the Meng matter by now with a very pragmatic "prisoner swap", and to hell with what the U.S. thinks about it, with far more domestic political support.

Does Canada want more trade with China or not ?    The Americans have already made their decision and U.S./China are now the world's largest trading partners, regardless of Trudeau's virtue signaling.    FYI, GM Oshawa will be shutting down...GM Shanghai is growing quickly...chasing the Germans for market share.

[bush_cheney2004]

2 hours ago, Argus said:

The U.S. has a problem with minority crime which is sparked by various social problems. And again, your attempt to excuse China for its barbarism, brutality and torture by spuriously claiming the US is as bad is only making you look ridiculous.

 

Nobody has said that the U.S. is the same as China, but clearly there are parallels that Canada has chosen to ignore for economic survival, and that includes capital punishment.   It is because of Canada's perceived safety with 75% exports going to the USA, American capital investment, and post WW2 frameworks that some righteous Canadian leaders think they can take on China for "human rights violations".  

Well guess what, that all changes when the United States will no longer have your back on such matters because it also has to choose nation state interests over virtue signaling.    The rest of the world is not Canada, and will never be the same as Canada.

Canada is far more bark than bite when it comes to international influence these days, and we both know why.

[Zeitgeist]

18 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

...and my point is that an ascending China doesn't give a damn about the West's "human rights" imperialism when it comes to trade policies and regional military power.   Trudeau could have settled the Meng matter by now with a very pragmatic "prisoner swap", and to hell with what the U.S. thinks about it, with far more domestic political support.

Does Canada want more trade with China or not ?    The Americans have already made their decision and U.S./China are now the world's largest trading partners, regardless of Trudeau's virtue signaling.    FYI, GM Oshawa will be shutting down...GM Shanghai is growing quickly...chasing the Germans for market share.

Yes, America is most definitely the country importing the most from China.  The US exports more to Canada than China and makes more money from Canada than China.  Figure out what kind of country you want to have and what kinds of friends you want to cultivate.  Canada is taking heat through this Huawei extradition request from the US but is doing so because of our extradition treaty and relationship.  Your suggestion that Canada disregard that relationship is odd.  Your new sheriff Trump seems to have a special respect for dictators and totalitarian states.  Fine, but don't expect sympathy when the shoe is on the other foot and countries like China start setting the terms for the US, which is increasingly the case as your dear leader applies the America First strategy and goes it alone.  You are weaker alone, as is Canada.  Sure, Canada will continue to trade with China and others.  In fact, China may be deemed the more reliable and trustworthy partner at some point.  The US's steel and aluminum tariffs on Canada and other mistreatment have certainly given Canadians pause.  I know, you don't care...Then don't whine about it. 

[bush_cheney2004]

7 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Yes, America is most definitely the country importing the most from China.  The US exports more to Canada than China and makes more money from Canada than China.  Figure out what kind of country you want to have and what kinds of friends you want to cultivate.  Canada is taking heat through this Huawei extradition request from the US but is doing so because of our extradition treaty and relationship.  Your suggestion that Canada disregard that relationship is odd.  Your new sheriff Trump seems to have a special respect for dictators and totalitarian states.

 

Are you joking ?    Do you really think that the U.S. relationship with such states just started with Trump ?   What do you think Chretien was doing in Gaddafi's tent back in 2004 ?

 

Quote

Fine, but don't expect sympathy when the shoe is on the other foot and countries like China start setting the terms for the US, which is increasingly the case as your dear leader applies the America First strategy and goes it alone.  You are weaker alone, as is Canada.  Sure, Canada will continue to trade with China and others.  In fact, China may be deemed the more reliable and trustworthy partner at some point.  The US's steel and aluminum tariffs on Canada and other mistreatment have certainly given Canadians pause.  I know, you don't care...Then don't whine about it. 

 

Agreed...but it sure is fun to watch the oh so smug Liberal ruling government squirm in its own incompetence, screwing up relationships with many more nations besides China.

Some Canadians have been bitching about Americans for decades...now they have something to bitch about.

[cannuck]

On 4/3/2019 at 1:41 PM, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

  What do you think Chretien was doing in Gaddafi's tent back in 2004 ?

He was doing what any good Liberal PM would do: schilling for the criminals at SNC.   Do you think THAT just started with Mr. Dressup?

[taxme]

On 3/29/2019 at 4:13 AM, Mike south said:

Here's my theory as to why the Liberal government is not doing anything to get these tariffs lifted.  Liberal government wants Canadians to be anti-trump which will in turn influence American voters come 2020 so that Trump will get out of office. All I hear from this Liberal government is complaining that these tariffs are unfair and calling them "illegal".  Other than that, they have done nothing to get these tariffs lifted.  Employment insurance is issued to everyone who has loss jobs to these tariffs which will hurt our debt or dollar in the long run.  This will in turn cause more hatred towards Trump. 

Now more specifically about these tariffs, I actually agree with the Canadian government about the lumber tariffs but not about steel and aluminum tariffs.  Just because companies in Canada buy lumber at a cheaper price doesn't give Trump the right to impose tariffs on lumber.  This still doesn't mean the Canada should be doing nothing about this, there's always something to negotiate about.  Now we have to remember the root cause of the steel and aluminum tariffs, which is the dumping of Chinese steel into America.  Canada buys steel and aluminum from China which in turn is sold to America.  So basically America is blaming Canada for acting as a proxy for China.  It's not that I agree with America's decision on this, It just makes sense for America to this.  Whether its a difficult task or not,  Canada can get this tariff lifted if they would just negotiate with China on this matter.  Obviously Canada has not negotiated with China at all or even with America I might add, and even worse Canada has been doing nothing.  All they've been doing is yelling "illegal". 

America has been heavily divided ever since Trump came into office, that's why I think the Democrats are using Canada to influence the 2020 election.  It sucks for us since we are actually getting hurt by this.  It's really Trudeau's fault for being a puppet for the Democrats. 

Here is my theory of what is wrong with Canada today and what it has become. A bloody leftist liberal and red conservative and NDP socialist communist political mess. There should be no tariffs implemented between two supposedly great friends. Trump is doing what he feels will be good for America. The problem here is that some Canadians do not like Trump for what he is doing. Trump is looking after Americas interest. Trudeau and Freeland are not. They are liberals, don't you know, and that is the problem here in Canada. Too much liberalism. 

What have marketing boards done for Canada? Well, how about high prices and quotas on milk, eggs and other dairy products. The wheat marketing board is gone. Did Canada fall apart because of it? Canada needs to learn how to compete. The first thing is to get the bloody communist governments off of we the people's back. If people were left alone to do their own bidding and deals Canada would be in better shape today. Government "IS" the problem, and never the solution. All we the people ever get from our governments is more taxes, more government bureaucracy and less freedom. Our Canadian politicians need to stop acting like azz holes. Indeed, China is kicking Canadian ass and getting away with it thanks to our weak kneed politicians who in my humble opinion could careless about Canada or Canadians. China is a threat to Canada's well being and they need to be told in no uncertain terms that they can go to hell if they think that they can continue to make Canada and Canadians their bitch. I refuse to bend over to them if you get my drift. 

PS: This present day liberal government of ours is going to bankrupt our Canada Pension Plan money if they are not stopped from stealing from it. They are stealing our CPP money that we put into the CPP and they are using it to blow that money on all of their pet liberal/socialist/communist programs and agendas that is killing Canada. China is not only a threat to Canada and Canadians but so is our Canadian politicians and the many things that they are doing behind our backs. A bit off topic I know,  but I am not trying to change the topic here. 

[bush_cheney2004]

2 hours ago, cannuck said:

He was doing what any good Liberal PM would do: schilling for the criminals at SNC.   Do you think THAT just started with Mr. Dressup?

 

Obviously not...hence my post.

[cannuck]

5 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Obviously not...hence my post.

Its sad when a damned Yankee (I take it you are North of Mason-Dixon as you don't appear to write with a drawl) know better than the millions of Canadians who voted for the Libs.

Edited April 5, 2019 by cannuck

[bush_cheney2004]

25 minutes ago, cannuck said:

Its sad when a damned Yankee (I take it you are North of Mason-Dixon as you don't appear to write with a drawl) know better than the millions of Canadians who voted for the Libs.

 

I don't think you understand my point....I would expect nothing less from any Canadian government in search of big fat contracts for oil services, infrastructure building, and mining in other nations for Canadian owned corporations.    Canada's current PM and LPC tried to sell virtue signaling and a feminist agenda back home, while the real world bitch slapped them back into reality (e.g. China, USA, KSA, Russia, etc.)

As for me knowing better....for every ounce of my "Yankee" opinion about Canada, I can find a pound of opinion here about the USA / Trump.

..and for the record, I have been mocking smug Canadian ethics on such matters with Chretien's photo near Gaddafi's desert tent for years.

 

Edited April 5, 2019 by bush_cheney2004

[cannuck]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

I don't think you understand my point....I would expect nothing less from any Canadian government in search of big fat contracts for oil services, infrastructure building, and mining in other nations for Canadian owned corporations.    Canada's current PM and LPC and tried to sell virtue signaling and a feminist agenda back home, while the real world bitch slapped them back into reality (e.g. China, USA, KSA, Russia, etc.)

As for me knowing better....for every ounce of my "Yankee" opinion about Canada, I can find a pound of opinion here about the USA / Trump.

YOU might expect that, but nothing could be further from the truth.  100% of what the federal government does is to seek business for QUEBEC - NEVER the ROC.   Those are not my words, BTW, but a friend who was at the time Minister of Everything when I was bitching about finding nothing but business leads from embassies going only to Quebec.

[bush_cheney2004]

7 minutes ago, cannuck said:

YOU might expect that, but nothing could be further from the truth.  100% of what the federal government does is to seek business for QUEBEC - NEVER the ROC.   Those are not my words, BTW, but a friend who was at the time Minister of Everything when I was bitching about finding nothing but business leads from embassies going only to Quebec.

 

Seriously ?  You want to turn this into a Quebec vs. everybody else to excuse the ROC ?   Who elected the governments....only Quebec ?

Are you also going to blame P. Trudeau (from Quebec) for going to China in the first place ?

Sorry, but this "Yankee" considers all of Canada to actually be Canada, not your personal politics.

Export Development Canada (EDC) is a Canadian crown corporation with 17 regional offices across Canada, and others around the world.

Edited April 5, 2019 by bush_cheney2004

[Argus]

A new report from parliament's National Security and Intelligence committee highlights the dangers China's interference and espionage efforts are to Canada, and how little the Trudeau Liberals are doing about it. 

What Canada ought to be doing is closing down China's "Confucious Institutes" across Canada, as well as most of its consulates, and investigating and deporting Chinese immigrants who are keeping close ties with the Chinese government and doing their bidding in Canada.

Beijing’s complex campaigns of subversion, threats, influence-buying, bullying and espionage in Canada stretch back much farther than last December, of course. So does the sleazy tendency of Canadian politicians to look the other way, or rush to Beijing’s defence whenever anyone in the intelligence community publicly notices the obvious, or throw the director of the Canadian Security and Intelligence Service under the bus for pointing it out. When CSIS director Richard Fadden had the temerity to point out nearly a decade ago that there were provincial cabinet ministers and other elected officials in Canada who had fallen under Beijing’s general influence, several Liberal and NDP MPs demanded his resignation.

So it was refreshing to see that Tuesday’s first-ever annual report from the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians (NSICOP) made no bones about it. China is a threat to Canada’s national security, the committee found.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/terry-glavin-its-official-china-is-a-threat-to-canadas-national-security#comments-area

[Argus]

A man who researches China's influence says that it's greater in Canada than we think, and greater than on Australia, despite the latter being more economically dependent on Chinese exports. That influence reaches right into parliament hill - and we can all figure out where.

Academic who blew the whistle on China's influence on Australia says Canada is in even worse trouble

'When I look at the subtle but intense influence of China on Canadian institutions ... it makes me deadly worried,' says Clive Hamilton

https://nationalpost.com/news/world/academic-who-blew-the-whistle-on-chinas-influence-on-australia-says-canada-is-in-even-worse-trouble

[Argus]

Further reason why we should ban the use of Huawai equipment in Canada, as it turns out they snuck back doors into internet routers supplied to Vodaphone, the giant European ISP. When Vodaphone found them they asked Huawai to removed them. Huawai said they did, but further testing revealed they were still there. This is a Chinese government spy agency which should not be trusted.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-30/vodafone-found-hidden-backdoors-in-huawei-equipment

[Goddess]

5 hours ago, Argus said:

Further reason why we should ban the use of Huawai equipment in Canada, as it turns out they snuck back doors into internet routers supplied to Vodaphone, the giant European ISP. When Vodaphone found them they asked Huawai to removed them. Huawai said they did, but further testing revealed they were still there. This is a Chinese government spy agency which should not be trusted.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-30/vodafone-found-hidden-backdoors-in-huawei-equipment

I've noticed that even with all the bad press, Hauwei is still advertising heavily in Canada.  I would never buy one of their phones.

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, Goddess said:

I've noticed that even with all the bad press, Hauwei is still advertising heavily in Canada.  I would never buy one of their phones.

I tell you, watching Hockey NIght in Canada with the cursed Huawei icon blazing in bright, BRIGHT letters is a real turn off. I know Ron McLean et al have nothing to do with it.

What we see is corporate whoredom. Corporate whoredom rules.

[Argus]

18 hours ago, Goddess said:

I've noticed that even with all the bad press, Hauwei is still advertising heavily in Canada.  I would never buy one of their phones.

I know someone who has one. Because it's cheap. That's all she cares about. She laughs at the idea China would be the least bit interested in anything she does anyway.

[Argus]

Macleans points out the reason why the Liberals can't bear to show any spine in their dealings with China.

One should expect a Chinese ambassador to equivocate and propagandize and lie through his teeth. But why is the Trudeau government being rather less than straight with us about all this?

For a quarter of a century, the defining foreign-policy feature of the Liberal Party brand has been a delusional myth of its own uniquely China-savvy sophistication. With everything that has happened since the rise of Xi Jinping, and the kidnapping of Kovrig and Spavor, it’s not like the Liberals are going to say, well, sorry, we’ve been wrong about China from the beginning, now we’ve put Canada’s sovereignty and our national security in grave peril, and by the way, please vote for us in October.

In Liberal business circles, it used to be considered a mark of distinction to know senior Chinese Communist Party officials by their first names, and to be seen with all the right people in Guangzhou and Shenzhen and Hubei and Shanghai. But after everything that has happened, it’s no longer possible to make the case that Canada’s interests are best served by having cabinet ministers, corporate executives and diplomats jetting off to China to swan around with the Politburo’s creepy casino-racket billionaires. It just doesn’t work anymore.

https://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/chinas-offensive-on-canada-in-plain-sight/

[Argus]

It's not much of a surprise McCallum is in China. So is Chretien, by the way. Both of them are part of the Liberal crew that have been sucking up to China for years, and who seem willing to do anything for that Chinese pay cheque. Now McCallum is advising them that the Liberals are their friends, and they need to help them get re-elected or the Conservatives will come in. That would be bad for business, China!

In case anything was lost in the translation: the former ambassador to China for Canada has not only been, by his own admission, enlisting China’s aid in re-electing the Liberals — inviting the leadership of a hostile foreign power, if not to intervene in the next election on their behalf, then to refrain from acting in a way that would help their opponents — but coaching them how to do it.

Among the many, many questions raised by the former ambassador’s new gig as a freelance political consultant: whose interests was he taking it upon himself to defend? The Liberal Party’s, certainly. China’s apparently. It’s just not clear where Canada’s interests fit into his thinking — except, of course, so far as the interests of the Liberal Party are assumed to be synonymous with Canada’s.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/andrew-coyne-john-mccallums-callous-unconcern-for-the-fate-of-canadian-hostages

[taxme]

On 4/4/2019 at 7:35 PM, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Seriously ?  You want to turn this into a Quebec vs. everybody else to excuse the ROC ?   Who elected the governments....only Quebec ?

Are you also going to blame P. Trudeau (from Quebec) for going to China in the first place ?

Sorry, but this "Yankee" considers all of Canada to actually be Canada, not your personal politics.

Export Development Canada (EDC) is a Canadian crown corporation with 17 regional offices across Canada, and others around the world.

I blame Quebec for all of Canada's problems. The french in Quebec cannot even run that province in a proper manner and they have been given the keys to run Ottawa for decades now. Quebec politics has and always will be totally corrupt and those Quebec politicians of the past and the ones of today are doing a great job of trying to destroy the ROC. They have done a pretty good job of it so far. But yet for some strange and unknown reason the ROC keeps voting in these destroyers of the ROC from Quebec. When will the ROC ever learn?

In my humble opinion I do not believe that most voters in the ROC really give a shit about politics at all and who runs the country and what goes on. I had a neighbor once who said to me one time " I don't care what they do" meaning politicians. I was shocked and lost for words. I am pretty sure that there are millions more Canadians like him out there who just do not care what the hell goes on with their tax dollars. But hey, what more can be said. 

[marcus]

On 5/1/2019 at 9:49 AM, Argus said:

Further reason why we should ban the use of Huawai equipment in Canada, as it turns out they snuck back doors into internet routers supplied to Vodaphone, the giant European ISP. When Vodaphone found them they asked Huawai to removed them. Huawai said they did, but further testing revealed they were still there. This is a Chinese government spy agency which should not be trusted.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-30/vodafone-found-hidden-backdoors-in-huawei-equipment

How do you feel about the information released by Snowden in regards to the syping done by the U.S. and Canada on its citizens by using.

Refresher: 

Snowden: The NSA planted backdoors in Cisco products

[Argus]

6 hours ago, marcus said:

How do you feel about the information released by Snowden in regards to the syping done by the U.S. and Canada on its citizens by using.

Refresher: 

Snowden: The NSA planted backdoors in Cisco products

The US is not my enemy. The Interests of the US are largely confined to counter intelligence and terrorism. I'm not aware the NSA has a dedicated group which tries to hack foreign companies in order to give information to American corporations. The US is also not on the verge of becoming a high tech dystonia nightmare which would make George Orwell blanche. Nor has it set up a worldwide influence racket to control expatriates abroad the way China has. Nor is there almost 2 million American born people who are citizens of Canada to be so influenced.