The Slow Painful Death of the Trump Administration

Jimwd · January 26, 2019

1 hour ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

Oops seems like the Democrats got a little too cocky today

I think that Nancy made it clear. No wall. Trump signed a bill today that is the same bill he blew up 35 days ago, he got nothing but caused a lot of pain,

OftenWrong · January 26, 2019

1 minute ago, Jimwd said:

There are some populated areas where fences are dividing lines. Always have been. But walls don’t work to keep people in or out.

That's debatable. There will always be some who can get past various normal security levels, such as walls, doors. These things keep people out of my house.

What you people are proposing is that I should let anybody walk into my house. And I like sitting in my bathrobe a lot, know what I mean? In other words, I like my privacy. I have a right to say to anyone, get the fuck out of here...

Jimwd · January 26, 2019

Just now, OftenWrong said:

That's debatable. There will always be some who can get past various normal security levels, such as walls, doors. These things keep people out of my house.

What you people are proposing is that I should let anybody walk into my house. And I like sitting in my bathrobe a lot, know what I mean? In other words, I like my privacy. I have a right to say to anyone, get the fuck out of here...

I don’t think you understand. Economics 101 ..supply and demand . As long as Americans hire illegals they will come. If you tell people if they can make it into your house ,they will get a job,,your bathrobe won’t stop them,

bush_cheney2004 · January 26, 2019

US/Mexico border walls and fences have existed for a long time....beefed up in 2006. I lived in San Diego years ago, where the wall was a welcomed and effective idea, with lessons and techniques learned over time:

Quote

Quote

This began, fittingly, with a wall—or to be more precise, a crude barrier of sheet metal supported by metal poles. This original barrier wasn’t meant to stop people. It was initially just meant to stop cars and trucks carrying migrants and drugs into the United States.

Yet this barrier triggered a process of trial and error with border walls that, over the course of 2 1/2 decades, has reduced the number of apprehensions of illegal aliens in San Diego from more than 628,000 in fiscal 1986 to its current number of around 30,000 a year.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/san-diego-where-a-border-wall-works_2297915.html

Jimwd · January 26, 2019

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

US/Mexico border walls and fences have existed for a long time....beefed up in 2006. I lived in San Diego years ago, where the wall was a welcomed and effective idea, with lessons and techniques learned over time:

https://www.theepochtimes.com/san-diego-where-a-border-wall-works_2297915.html

"Fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of man. If mountain ranges and oceans can be overcome, then anything built by man can be overcome."
Patton (1970)

OftenWrong · January 26, 2019

1 minute ago, Jimwd said:

I don’t think you understand. Economics 101 ..supply and demand . As long as Americans hire illegals they will come. If you tell people if they can make it into your house ,they will get a job,,your bathrobe won’t stop them,

Perhaps those people who are living there illegally, and working etc. may have to be rounded up and sent back home. It's one possible solution, and I think it has been proposed. Other one is to make them legal. But then they won't be a cheap source of labour any more, would they. So that is pointless. Personally I would do nothing with them, but I would try to stop the influx of new illegal migrants. Increasing law enforcement would be a good idea.

Not sure how many have been deported by now under Trump, but I heard several million illegals were deported under president Obama. In fact the deportation rate under his presidency increased. Pretty sure I read that somewhere.

bush_cheney2004 · January 26, 2019

3 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Perhaps those people who are living there illegally, and working etc. may have to be rounded up and sent back home. It's one possible solution, and I think it has been proposed. Other one is to make them legal. But then they won't be a cheap source of labour any more, would they. So that is pointless. Personally I would do nothing with them, but I would try to stop the influx of new illegal migrants. Increasing law enforcement would be a good idea.

This is Trump's greatest sin...daring to challenge the illegal immigration and cheap labour game that has gone on for decades. That's how "illegals" got relabeled as "undocumented workers". Forget the fence....use land mines !

OftenWrong · January 26, 2019

5 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

This is Trump's greatest sin...daring to challenge the illegal immigration and cheap labour game that has gone on for decades. That's how "illegals" got relabeled as "undocumented workers". Forget the fence....use land mines !

You're right. Compared to the number of deportations under president Obama, Trump has been negligent!

Deportations under Trump are on the rise but still lower than Obama’s, ICE report shows
Dec 14, 2018
Amid President Trump’s push for tighter immigration policies, the United States deported more than 256,000 people in 2018 — the highest number since the Obama administration, new data shows.

In fact, U.S. deportation numbers were higher during the Obama administration, reaching 409,849 in 2012, according to ICE’s Enforcement and Removal Operations reports. Data shows that in 2015 and 2016, however, the number of those deported dropped to 235,413 and 240,255, respectively.

The highest numbers deported under Trump so far barely exceed the lowest numbers deported under Obama. Trump really needs to step up his game!

QuebecOverCanada · January 26, 2019

1 hour ago, Jimwd said:

"Fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of man. If mountain ranges and oceans can be overcome, then anything built by man can be overcome."
Patton (1970)

Having a lock on your door is so stupid.

Dougie93 · January 26, 2019

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

This is Trump's greatest sin...daring to challenge the illegal immigration and cheap labour game that has gone on for decades. That's how "illegals" got relabeled as "undocumented workers". Forget the fence....use land mines !

Fun fact; minefields are not actually for the purposes of stopping things, only diverting them into kill zones, expect minefields to be penetrated time allowing, particularly if not covered by fire.

bush_cheney2004 · January 26, 2019

4 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

Fun fact; minefields are not actually for the purposes of stopping things, only diverting them into kill zones, expect minefields to be penetrated time allowing, particularly if not covered by fire.

Not always...land mines are also area denial and force multiplier munitions. I helped to manufacture untold thousands of GATOR mines back in the day, just in time for the Gulf War. Each CBU air deployed dispenser would have a mix of anti-armour and anti-personnel mines...nasty little buggers.

Probably would upset Mexico and a lot of liberals if we used them on the caravans headed north !

Edited January 26, 2019 by bush_cheney2004

Michael Hardner · January 26, 2019

6 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

This is Trump's greatest sin...

I'm going to one-up that in your favour, and also disagree:

1) His greatest sin was challenging the status quo in general. And also that was the area in which I held hopes of imaginative engagement.

2) It wasn't challenging immigration but his method of demonizing immigrants in service of his agenda that got people angry.

bush_cheney2004 · January 26, 2019

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

I'm going to one-up that in your favour, and also disagree:

1) His greatest sin was challenging the status quo in general. And also that was the area in which I held hopes of imaginative engagement.

2) It wasn't challenging immigration but his method of demonizing immigrants in service of his agenda that got people angry.

Meh...it was never going to be pretty, no matter who it was. "Immigration reform" is the political gift that keeps on giving.

Trump rode the issue all the way to the White House, only to discover that the fix was in the whole time.

Michael Hardner · January 26, 2019

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Meh...it was never going to be pretty, no matter who it was. "Immigration reform" is the political gift that keeps on giving.

Trump rode the issue all the way to the White House, only to discover that the fix was in the whole time.

1) I don't see why it couldn't be much better. Great conflicts often end in a wimper.

2) Not arguing that. 'The Fix Was In' is another way of saying 'It Was Never Going to Work'.

I'm convinced that people will get bored of fighting soon, especially when they realize that the end of the fight isn't going to get them a big improvement in lifestyle either way.

bush_cheney2004 · January 26, 2019

24 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I'm convinced that people will get bored of fighting soon, especially when they realize that the end of the fight isn't going to get them a big improvement in lifestyle either way.

Maybe, but it is a very old issue that still has legs today depending on domestic and foreign policy circumstances. There has already been a round of "amnesty" before (e.g. Ronald Reagan 1986). Obama's DACA approach was just more of the same without congressional approval.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Reform_and_Control_Act_of_1986

Open borders will be resisted even by Democrats...with a wink and a nod.

Edited January 26, 2019 by bush_cheney2004

Jimwd · January 26, 2019

10 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

This is Trump's greatest sin...daring to challenge the illegal immigration and cheap labour game that has gone on for decades. That's how "illegals" got relabeled as "undocumented workers". Forget the fence....use land mines !

Trump hires illegals . We know that. He has undocumented workers making his bed.

Jimwd · January 26, 2019

9 hours ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

Having a lock on your door is so stupid.

Tell the people if they break the lock on your door they will get a job. How long do you think your lock will work?

QuebecOverCanada · January 26, 2019

24 minutes ago, Jimwd said:

Tell the people if they break the lock on your door they will get a job. How long do you think your lock will work?

So, you're telling me that because SOME may break my lock, I shouldn't have one? That's an idiotic way of thinking if you ask me.

scribblet · January 26, 2019

15 hours ago, Jimwd said:

I guess that’s why trump’s circle is being indicted and mueller is closing in.

Closing in on what though... I thought Mueller's investigation was all about Russian Collusion, the arrest of Stone doesn't appear to be about that, it's about asking for emails from wikki leaks... or lying about it. If it's about lying to the FBI, how come they haven't gone after Hillary and the others

Dougie93 · January 26, 2019

7 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Not always...land mines are also area denial and force multiplier munitions. I helped to manufacture untold thousands of GATOR mines back in the day, just in time for the Gulf War. Each CBU air deployed dispenser would have a mix of anti-armour and anti-personnel mines...nasty little buggers.

Probably would upset Mexico and a lot of liberals if we used them on the caravans headed north !

Same-same. The purpose of area denial is to funnel formations into kill zones. GATOR mines were designed for the Fulda Gap, to funnel the enemy into kill zones.

Dougie93 · January 26, 2019

48 minutes ago, scribblet said:

Closing in on what though... I thought Mueller's investigation was all about Russian Collusion, the arrest of Stone doesn't appear to be about that, it's about asking for emails from wikki leaks... or lying about it. If it's about lying to the FBI, how come they haven't gone after Hillary and the others

They have what they want now, the whole investigation was about Roger Stone, they know Stone is behind it all, Trump is simply Stone's muse, they are buddies, but Stone is the brains of the operation, this is the Roger Stone presidency.

Mind you, Stone is exactly where he wants to be, he aspires to be a Nixonian martyr, take one for the team, so I expect him to do time for the cause, standing on his head.

Dougie93 · January 26, 2019

Bear in mind, Stone fancies himself to be a kind of gangster, like a Wise Guy, except no Wise Guy has ever had the Pentagon at his disposal, but that's how Stone rolls.

He wants to be like Gordon Liddy, the rest of them will rat, but Roger will take one for the team.

Stone was one of the young Ratfuckers, working for McGruder, Liddy is their Capo, Nixon the Capo di Tutti Capi, Trump the is the new Don.

They can't get to the Don, so they are going after the proxies, but the rest of them are just Cutouts, Roger Stone's Cutouts, Roger is the only proxy.

Russia Collusion is just code for Roger Stone. The rest of the Cutouts don't got anything on the Don. So if Stone takes one for the team, they got nothing,

And Stone is actually pretty tough, I don't think he's eager to go to a super max, but since they ain't gonna put him in Pelican Bay, I don't think he's scared of jail.

Edited January 26, 2019 by Dougie93

xul · January 26, 2019

I think the more accurate title of this thread should be:

The Slow Painful Death of the American Empire under Trump Administration

The famous dialogue in movie Star Wars II:

Obi-Wan: I must admit that without the clones, it would not have been victory.

Yoda: Victory? Victory, you say? Master Obi-Wan, not victory. The shroud of the dark side has fallen. Begun, the Clone War has!

Those American voters of Trump were just like Jedi who used the clone army to save the old republic, not knowing when the shroud of the dark side of the system was pull down and all devils hided beneath it had got out, it would be hard to find a way to contain them again.

QuebecOverCanada · January 26, 2019

5 minutes ago, xul said:

I think the more accurate title of this thread should be:

The Slow Painful Death of the American Empire under Trump Administration

The famous dialogue in movie Star Wars II:

Obi-Wan: I must admit that without the clones, it would not have been victory.

Yoda: Victory? Victory, you say? Master Obi-Wan, not victory. The shroud of the dark side has fallen. Begun, the Clone War has!

Those American voters of Trump were just like Jedi who used the clone army to save the old republic, not knowing when the shroud of the dark side of the system was pull down and all devils hided beneath it had got out, it would be hard to find a way to contain them again.