Will Canada follow through and extradite Huawei CFO Meng Wanzhou?

[jbg]

First, will Canada follow through and extradite Huawei CFO Meng Wanzhou? It should, for the good of the West.

Finally, the U.S. has woken up. Wealthy people who live in unfree and illiberal countries want and need access to the West or life would be miserable. They want access to New York City and Toronto for business and entertainment. Beijing and Shanghai have nothing to match Wall Street, Bay Street or either country's live theater and music.

Excerpt from NY Times article Meng Wanzhou Was Huawei’s Professional Face, Until Her Arrest:

That has thrust Ms. Meng, 46, into the center of what promises to be a complex diplomatic tussle between the United States and China. She was arrested Dec. 1 in Vancouver, Canada, while changing flights, at the request of the American government, which is seeking to extradite her. The action escalated what had already been a roller-coaster year of economic conflict between the two powers, ahead of tricky negotiations to end a brutal trade war.

The Chinese are upset about these events. See Huawei Arrest Tests China’s Leaders as Fear and Anger Grip Elite:

Now Ms. Meng is in custody, after being detained during an airport layover in Vancouver on Saturday, and the outcry has put the Chinese leadership on the spot. Mr. Xi faces competing pressures — to show strength, perhaps by retaliating against the United States, but also to limit the cost of rising tensions and the trade war with Washington on China’s ruling class. “Her arrest will have phenomenal repercussions in China,” said Tao Jingzhou, a corporate lawyer in Beijing. “The wealthy have already been worried for a long time about their safety and their wealth in America,” he added. “If the U.S. is going to pursue corruption and extraterritorial laws, that will increase.”

Indeed, it's good that they should worry. Theft is theft; I am getting tired of diplomats who are more interested in their popularity at cocktail parties with their adversaries than protecting their own country.

 

 

 

[paxamericana]

1 hour ago, jbg said:

First, will Canada follow through and extradite Huawei CFO Meng Wanzhou? It should, for the good of the West.

Finally, the U.S. has woken up. Wealthy people who live in unfree and illiberal countries want and need access to the West or life would be miserable. They want access to New York City and Toronto for business and entertainment. Beijing and Shanghai have nothing to match Wall Street, Bay Street or either country's live theater and music.

Excerpt from NY Times article Meng Wanzhou Was Huawei’s Professional Face, Until Her Arrest:

The Chinese are upset about these events. See Huawei Arrest Tests China’s Leaders as Fear and Anger Grip Elite:

Indeed, it's good that they should worry. Theft is theft; I am getting tired of diplomats who are more interested in their popularity at cocktail parties with their adversaries than protecting their own country.

 

 

 

Yes, Canada will kowtow to Beijing. Question is, what are the consequences for doing that when it comes to America?

[OftenWrong]

30 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

Canada will kowtow to Beijing.

I doubt it. Most likely the request has to be honoured under the extradition treaty agreement.

[Wilber]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

I doubt it. Most likely the request has to be honoured under the extradition treaty agreement.

Agreed. However it can take a long time to actually extradite  someone, particularly someone with her resources. 

[SpankyMcFarland]

This is primarily a legal matter so I would expect our government to let the legal process take its course, unlike in China. 

One problem for the Americans is dual criminality - the offence must exist in Canada as well as the US. Our sanctions against Iran are quite different from theirs which may be why they want to charge her with fraud for lying about Huawei’s business in Iran rather than for conducting the actual business. This may take years to resolve. 

Secondly, the Chi-Coms are not known for being good sports. Random Canadians may be detained over yonder and charges found for them afterwards. Our efforts to curb the tsunami of Chinese fentanyl flowing into this country may have just run into a serious problem. 

Given the shenanigans Huawei get up to across the world, it is unfortunate that the Americans had to pick such an obscure case to charge them with and involve us in it. 

 

Edited December 10, 2018 by SpankyMcFarland

[Wilber]

13 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

 

Given the shenanigans Huawei get up to across the world, it is unfortunate that the Americans had to pick such an obscure case to charge them with and involve us in it. 

 

Ya got that right.

[turningrite]

13 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

One problem for the Americans is dual criminality - the offence must exist in Canada as well as the US. Our sanctions against Iran are quite different from theirs which may be why they want to charge her with fraud for lying about Huawei’s business in Iran rather than for conducting the actual business. This may take years to resolve. 

 

This is an astute comment. I thought about this too when watching and reading the coverage of this issue over the past few days. It's my understanding that receipt of an extradition request doesn't in its own right mean that Canada will execute such a request unless it is issued for reasons that are consistent with Canadian law. I don't believe the Americans should be able to alter the reasons for extradition simply to comply with Canada's sanctions regime. If we want to demonstrate that we are country governed by fairness and the rule of law the process has to be entirely fair and transparent.

[bush_cheney2004]

The extradition process is well defined by both nations, and will not be revisited just because Canada is nervous about (or afraid of) ...China.  

...sure didn't help Conrad Black very much.

[taxme]

18 hours ago, paxamericana said:

Yes, Canada will kowtow to Beijing. Question is, what are the consequences for doing that when it comes to America?

I don't think that Canada and Trudeau wants to phuc around with America and Trump. Our bread and butter depends on America and Trump. We can survive without China. 

[taxme]

16 hours ago, Wilber said:

Agreed. However it can take a long time to actually extradite  someone, particularly someone with her resources. 

Yup, and I can see this costing the taxpayer's of Canada plenty more tax dollars because of this bull chit. It never ends, does it? Pay-pay-pay.  

[Wilber]

We have to abide by our legal process in this but there is no question that we are being used by the US to pursue its quarrel with China. Not appreciated.

[taxme]

6 minutes ago, Wilber said:

We have to abide by our legal process in this but there is no question that we are being used by the US to pursue its quarrel with China. Not appreciated.

And we must abide by the legal process whether those Canadians who hate America like it or not. The quarrel that China and America are having is over trade just like Canada was having it's share of trade quarrels with America also. Whatever is the real reason as to why the Americans want this woman we will probably never learn or know about. Maybe this is over something else. I will stick with America over this because we had better if we know what is good for Canada and Canadians. I do not want to see the American elephant about to step on the Canadian mouses head. I cannot stand headaches if that is all I end up with. 

I do not appreciate Canada trading with a communist country that treats it's citizen's like commie slaves. Canada fought against apartheid in South Africa over white controlled over blacks in South Africa and apartheid was defeated. Maybe if the world would stop dealing with China communism could be eliminated in China and we can help free those commie slaves. 

[Michael Hardner]

21 hours ago, paxamericana said:

Yes, Canada will kowtow to Beijing.  

Bold prediction there.

[Zeitgeist]

The Crown will proceed carefully here.  Following rule of law and due process, including extradition treaties is the answer.  That’s it. 

[cannuck]

I HOPE we will follow true to history and follow the law to the letter.  Now, given the current leadership and government, there is a chance that they will simply cave in to China.  The whole world should be jumping up and down to thank Trump for being the first world leader to stand up to the predatory criminal behaviour of the Chico gov't and its co-conspirators.  Trudeau et al should be beaming with pride that the US placed their trust in Canada to do the right thing.  Now let'e see if we do.

[Zeitgeist]

2 minutes ago, cannuck said:

I HOPE we will follow true to history and follow the law to the letter.  Now, given the current leadership and government, there is a chance that they will simply cave in to China.  The whole world should be jumping up and down to thank Trump for being the first world leader to stand up to the predatory criminal behaviour of the Chico gov't and its co-conspirators.  Trudeau et al should be beaming with pride that the US placed their trust in Canada to do the right thing.  Now let'e see if we do.

As long as the US has our backs should China react harshly.  After the Saudi mess this past summer, I’m not sure.  We’ve also taken abuse on trade.  Let’s see how strong the friendship is.  

[Wilber]

13 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

The Crown will proceed carefully here.  Following rule of law and due process, including extradition treaties is the answer.  That’s it. 

I imagine so. If nothing else the Americans will get a lesson in how slowly the wheels of Canadian justice grind.

[Wilber]

15 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

As long as the US has our backs should China react harshly.  After the Saudi mess this past summer, I’m not sure.  We’ve also taken abuse on trade.  Let’s see how strong the friendship is.  

Wouldn’t count on it as long as Agent Orange is around.

I guess that is Individual 1 now.

Edited December 11, 2018 by Wilber

[SpankyMcFarland]

Chinese retaliation may have begun:

Quote

A former Canadian diplomat who worked as a political lead for Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's 2016 visit to Hong Kong has reportedly been arrested in China.

The International Crisis Group says it's aware of media reports that Michael Kovrig, its northeast Asia senior adviser, has been detained. A member of the organization wrote in a short email that it has no additional information yet.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/former-canadian-diplomat-arrested-in-china-reports-1.4213122

 

 

Edited December 11, 2018 by SpankyMcFarland

[Wilber]

1 hour ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Chinese retaliation may have begun:

 

No surprise here. The only question was who they would pick and will there be more.

[taxme]

16 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

The Crown will proceed carefully here.  Following rule of law and due process, including extradition treaties is the answer.  That’s it. 

Has Canada ever extradited anyone from another country? I cannot recall ever as to whether Canada has done so in the past.  Just wondering. 

[Wilber]

Just now, taxme said:

Has Canada ever extradited anyone from another country? I cannot recall ever as to whether Canada has done so in the past.  Just wondering. 

Lots.

Canada extradition rate.

[taxme]

15 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

As long as the US has our backs should China react harshly.  After the Saudi mess this past summer, I’m not sure.  We’ve also taken abuse on trade.  Let’s see how strong the friendship is.  

Why does Canada and other civilized countries not put sanctions against some of those evil regimes out there like Saudi Arabia and China but instead prefers to continue to deal with those evil empires that enslave their own people and put their own citizen's in jail or put to death for daring to ask questions?  Why not sanctions against Saudi Arabia that chop people's heads off or throws people off roof tops blindfolded because they are gay or freedom lovers? The world got together and forced South Africa to abolish apartheid, so why or what is the rest of the world waiting for and start to put sanctions against countries like China and Saudi Arabia. Why did countries like Canada and so many others go along with sanctions against South Africa but refuses to start to act as caring and loving human beings towards those who live in those countries mentioned? Where is the EU or that noble ha-ha outfit called the UN on this? J

Just asking. 

[taxme]

20 minutes ago, Wilber said:

Lots.

Canada extradition rate.

Did you not understand the question? I was not asking as to how many people were extradited to other countries from Canada. The question was how many people have been extradited back to Canada at Canada's request? I could not find anything in your post that showed me this? If I missed it maybe you can point it out for me? 

[Wilber]

1 hour ago, taxme said:

Did you not understand the question? I was not asking as to how many people were extradited to other countries from Canada. The question was how many people have been extradited back to Canada at Canada's request? I could not find anything in your post that showed me this? If I missed it maybe you can point it out for me? 

Here are some

I expect we extradite far more because we are seen as  safe place to run to.

Edited December 11, 2018 by Wilber