Saudi Arabia expells Canadian ambassador

[Zeitgeist]

I actually think Trudeau should've come out swinging on this.  The Canadian Foreign Minister's tweets were entirely appropriate and necessary.  If the day comes when countries can no longer stand up for their citizens by calling out human rights and free speech abuses of their citizens, that is a very sad day indeed.  Are we already there?  Canada is right on this.  Allies are cowering to the Saudis.  It's incredible to see the liberties dictators are taking these days.  The big loser is freedom worldwide.  I wonder who inspired this behavior.

[Wilber]

39 minutes ago, Argus said:

What about those of us who think Trump is a moron for his tweets and also think Freeland is a moron for using twitter to scold the Saudis?

I don't think Freeland's tweet was particularly wise but it was factual and it hardly compares with the garbage Trump spews ten or twenty times a day.

[betsy]

14 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

In the immortal words of John Oliver, "DO IT !!!!"

C'mon Justin Trudeau, put Ontario's blood money where your mouth is....cancel the Saudi LAV contract.

Be brave !!   Show the world that your "Canadian values" cannot be bought....LOL !

Yeah!   Rip that contract!  Put your money where your mouth is!

[taxme]

20 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Dear Justin and Chrystia,

The evil United States is going to execute more prisoners in 2018.

Please save them with your powerful Canadian values and virtue signaling like you have in Saudi Arabia.

...use America's social media like Twitter if you can't do any better than that.

Love,

U.S. Death Row Inmates

Hey, if one is willing to take someone else's life than they should expect to have to forfeit their own life. No one has the right to take someones life and expect to be able to live long after in prison at taxpayer's expense. If one has no respect for another persons life than why should the system or the people have and show mercy for their life? Seems fair to me. 

[Wilber]

39 minutes ago, Argus said:

They are in the right in their condemnation of what the Saudis have done but in the wrong in how they went about it. 

What would be the right way?

[Argus]

1 minute ago, Wilber said:

What would be the right way?

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/trudeau-made-a-glaring-tactical-error-thats-getting-canada-hammered-by-saudi-arabia/ar-BBLIAUm?ocid=spartanntp

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Truth Detector said:

This government is being hypocritical as has already been stated.  They point out Saudi Arabia but leave out equally repressive regimes, like in Cuba, China, etc.  It's easy to be critical of Saudi Arabia, and takes literally no courage at all.  It's actually the easy way out.

Its low hanging fruit alright, especially in light of our grandparents sacrificing some 25% of their GDP to the struggle against tyranny.  If Canada was serious about linking human rights to trade and relations in general we'd make a far louder statement sanctioning some of our closest allies for the human rights abuse their geopolitical vandalism causes. 

So be it if where Canada finds itself with Saudi Arabia is a result of Trudeau's government blundering backwards into a moral quagmire - now that we're here we might as well avail ourselves of the opportunity to let the stench of having our nose rubbed in it seep in.

[Wilber]

1 minute ago, Argus said:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/trudeau-made-a-glaring-tactical-error-thats-getting-canada-hammered-by-saudi-arabia/ar-BBLIAUm?ocid=spartanntp

Again, what would be the right way? It's obvious that the Saudis will not tolerate any criticism of their human rights record. 

Saudi executions have doubled since bin Salman took power. 

So much for reform

 

There are some on this forum who say that because we aren't a major power, we shouldn't stand up for anything. Some of those same people say that because we don't condemn every violation of human rights, we shouldn't condemn any. Pretty sad attitude IMO.

[taxme]

14 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I actually think Trudeau should've come out swinging on this.  The Canadian Foreign Minister's tweets were entirely appropriate and necessary.  If the day comes when countries can no longer stand up for their citizens by calling out human rights and free speech abuses of their citizens, that is a very sad day indeed.  Are we already there?  Canada is right on this.  Allies are cowering to the Saudis.  It's incredible to see the liberties dictators are taking these days.  The big loser is freedom worldwide.  I wonder who inspired this behavior.

The ones that are really to blame for this is we the people for allowing our dear leaders to continue to work with and show respect and honors to these dictators and to continue to do business with these tyrants. Where are all those liberals, NDP socialists and feminists out there who always keep whining and crying like a bunch of crybabies snowflakes right on cue when told too demonstrate by the controlled corporate elite left wing lying liberal media, especially when they are told to do it towards people like Trump who has never done anything to any of them at all. But yet they are always willing to let dictators like the Saudi kings get a free pass and of the hook and never demonstrate against those tyrants en masse. Some of they the sheeple are so clueless about politics that they really should just mind their own business and just continue on with their shopping or throw a party at someone's house somewhere or keep watching Whoopie or Colbert. 

But I will tell you where they all are hiding? They are all just sitting and hiding in the their closets waiting for their marching orders and as to who they will be demonstrate against today and who will it be tomorrow. The only time we get big demonstrations going is when it is against people like Trump who so far as done nothing to those hiding in the closet snowflake wimps and cowards. Matter of fact Trump is really trying to help them but the fools are too stupid to see it or get it. They are not called liberal wacky snowflakes for nothing. 

Saudi Arabia will never feel the pain of sanctions or see any big demonstrations done around the world against them because they know that they have Israel and America and Britain and even Canada protecting their backs and they know that those countries will make sure that no sanctions or demonstrations will ever happen against them. There are just too many of our world politicians who have no principles or integrity and only appear to be just a bunch of puppets on a string for the elite globalist banksters to play with their puppet strings to make them move when they are needed. Otherwise some go to gay pride parades and prance around with them. What a country this Canada has become. 

[taxme]

27 minutes ago, Wilber said:

What would be the right way?

There is only one right way to deal with them there tyrants? Tell the Saudi tyrants to go pound sand. LOL.  

[Argus]

32 minutes ago, Wilber said:

Again, what would be the right way? It's obvious that the Saudis will not tolerate any criticism of their human rights record. 

Did you read the cite? You aren't going to get anything from the Saudis by publicly shaming them. And Freeland's tweet wasn't really mean to accomplish anything but virtue signaling to Canadian Liberals anyway.

[bush_cheney2004]

30 minutes ago, Wilber said:

Again, what would be the right way?

 

Maybe like this...a respectful request instead of making smug demands on Twitter ?

 

Quote

Ronald Smith, 60, originally from Red Deer, Alta., has been on death row since 1983 after fatally shooting two young men while he was high on LSD and alcohol near East Glacier, Mont.

He refused a plea deal and pleaded guilty. His request for the death penalty was granted.

Smith had a change of heart and has been on a legal roller-coaster for decades. An execution date has been set five times, and each time the order was overturned.

The Canadian government sent a letter to Montana Gov. Steve Bullock last year asking for clemency for Smith. The Canadian Press has obtained a copy of the request that was signed by then-foreign affairs minister Stéphane Dion.

..."The government of Canada requests that you grant clemency to Mr. Smith on humanitarian grounds." said the request.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/smith-clemency-ronald-red-deer-montana-death-row-sentence-1.4465115

 

[Wilber]

Just now, Argus said:

Did you read the cite? You aren't going to get anything from the Saudis by publicly shaming them. And Freeland's tweet wasn't really mean to accomplish anything but virtue signaling to Canadian Liberals anyway.

I think the only thing that will work with them is public shaming. If every western country shamed them, they couldn't play one against the other.  I think it is the only reason women can now drive in Saudi Arabia.

[Zeitgeist]

That situation of the Canadian death row inmate isn't comparable to the situation in Saudi Arabia.  These were peaceful political activists.  Also, applying the death penalty for murder wouldn't be considered a human rights violation, though it's interesting that most democracies have eliminated the death penalty.  Some Catholic clergy used to support it, but now the Pope has spoken out against it.  Eliminating it has been the trend worldwide. 

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

That situation of the Canadian death row inmate isn't comparable to the situation in Saudi Arabia.  These were peaceful political activists. 

 

So Canadian murderers facing certain death in the United States deserve quiet, diplomatic letters, but Canadian law breakers/prisoners in Saudi Arabia only get ill advised tweets ?

Hey, let's all jump on a plane to Riyadh and protest peacefully against the Saudi government...what could go wrong ?

 

[Zeitgeist]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

So Canadian murderers facing certain death in the United States deserve quiet, diplomatic letters, but Canadian law breakers/prisoners in Saudi Arabia only get ill advised tweets ?

Hey, let's all jump on a plane to Riyadh and protest peacefully against the Saudi government...what could go wrong ?

 

The point is that there's a different elevation to a public rebuke.  Do you know about the Canadian-Iranian freelance photographer who was murdered by the state while in jail in Iran in 2003?  If it was called out more publicly, if more attention was drawn to it internationally, the murder might not have happened.  Canada closed its embassy in Iran after the fact.  If Canada and other countries don't sound the alarm, who will take note and what will be the public scrutiny of human rights violations or crimes against humanity?  These are important considerations for Americans as much as Canadians. 

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

The point is that there's a different elevation to a public rebuke.  Do you know about the Canadian-Iranian freelance photographer who was murdered by the state while in jail in Iran in 2003?  If it was called out more publicly, if more attention was drawn to it internationally, the murder might not have happened. 

 

Pure speculation on your part....the fact remains that Freeland stupidly sent the typically smug "Canadian values" message via grandstanding tweet instead of more diplomatic channels.   So now Trudeau/Freeland are being publicly mocked, drawing lots of attention to yet another Trudeau government screw up.

Send over 10,000 more Canadians to break Saudi laws if the cause is so just.   

 

[cannuck]

1 hour ago, taxme said:

Hey, if one is willing to take someone else's life than they should expect to have to forfeit their own life. No one has the right to take someones life and expect to be able to live long after in prison at taxpayer's expense. If one has no respect for another persons life than why should the system or the people have and show mercy for their life? Seems fair to me. 

Pretty big talk for someone from a country that murders tens of thousands of babies a year "for the Mother's convenience".
 

Oh, I forgot: they can't vote so their lives don't count.

Edited August 9, 2018 by cannuck

[taxme]

26 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

So Canadian murderers facing certain death in the United States deserve quiet, diplomatic letters, but Canadian law breakers/prisoners in Saudi Arabia only get ill advised tweets ?

Hey, let's all jump on a plane to Riyadh and protest peacefully against the Saudi government...what could go wrong ?

 

What could go wrong you say? It could be the removal of your head from your shoulders.  LOL. 

[taxme]

7 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Pure speculation on your part....the fact remains that Freeland stupidly sent the typically smug "Canadian values" message via grandstanding tweet instead of more diplomatic channels.   So now Trudeau/Freeland are being publicly mocked, drawing lots of attention to yet another Trudeau government screw up.

Send over 10,000 more Canadians to break Saudi laws if the cause is so just.   

 

Okay, as long as we start with the liberal ones first and hope that they get to stay in Saudi Arabia for good in one of their prisons. Really would work for me. LOL. 

[taxme]

10 minutes ago, cannuck said:

Pretty big talk for someone from a country that murders tens of thousands of babies a year "for the Mother's convenience".
 

Oh, I forgot: they can't vote so their lives don't count.

Planned parenthood in the states has been committing millions of abortions for numerous decades now. So don't lecture me about what happens in Canada as far as abortions go when in America abortions are being committed by the hundreds every day.  

Abortion really kicked in gear in Canada several decades ago and the one that got it all started was a doctor by the name of Henry Morgantaler who was later allowed to abort hundreds of thousands of innocent baby lives from the wombs of many women who's baby never got to see the light of day alive or maybe got to see the light for a few seconds at most. This guy got the name of the butcher of babies. Thank gawd that baby killer is now in hell where he truly belongs hopefully.

It is a sad thing to watch an actual abortion being done. It is an horrendous thing to watch and to see that little baby trying to fight for it's life while it is being torn apart. All women who want an abortion should first be forced to watch what happens to a baby that is being aborted. Maybe many would want to think twice about what they are about to do. 

 

[OftenWrong]

2 hours ago, Argus said:

They are in the right in their condemnation of what the Saudis have done but in the wrong in how they went about it. 

Ok. At the same time they have no problem providing the Saudi's with military hardware, and it will possibly be used to commit human rights violations.
Link

[Wilber]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

That situation of the Canadian death row inmate isn't comparable to the situation in Saudi Arabia.  These were peaceful political activists.  Also, applying the death penalty for murder wouldn't be considered a human rights violation, though it's interesting that most democracies have eliminated the death penalty.  Some Catholic clergy used to support it, but now the Pope has spoken out against it.  Eliminating it has been the trend worldwide. 

The US is in good company.

Click heading to sort

Country

Total executed, 2007-12

Total sentenced to death, 2007-12

SOURCE: AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL

Source: Amnesty Inernational

CHINA  THOUSANDS  THOUSANDS  IRAN  1,663  156  SAUDI ARABIA  423  54  IRAQ  256  1,420  UNITED STATES  220  504  PAKISTAN  171  1,497  YEMEN  152  109  KOREA (NORTH)  105  0  VIETNAM  58  258  LIBYA

[eyeball]

13 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Ok. At the same time they have no problem providing the Saudi's with military hardware, and it will possibly be used to commit human rights violations.
Link

You're quite mistaken if you think Argus has any issue with selling dictators weapons, especially if they're going be used to kill other goat herders.

[OftenWrong]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

You're quite mistaken if you think Argus has any issue with selling dictators weapons, especially if they're going be used to kill other goat herders.

Thank you, I am aware of that. Sometimes when posting I speak to a wider audience. This isn't about me or you. Do you get that?