Saudi Arabia expells Canadian ambassador

[bush_cheney2004]

8 minutes ago, Wilber said:

The US is in good company.

 

That's right....Japan too...just executed the last of convicted cult terrorists last week.

Like the Saudis, Japan doesn't give a damn about Trudeau or Freeland's "Canadian values" either.

Edited August 9, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[cannuck]

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

That's right....Japan too...just executed the last of convicted cult terrorists last week.

Like the Saudis, Japan doesn't give a damn about Trudeau or Freeland's "Canadian values" either.

When I walk through the terminal in Riyadh and see the big sign:  "the penalty for dealing drugs is death" I get a case of the warm fuzzies.  It is also a sharp reminder that  'Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.'

[eyeball]

5 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Thank you, I am aware of that.

You wouldn't know it..

Quote

Sometimes when posting I speak to a wider audience. This isn't about me or you. Do you get that?

Yes, its about Argus.

[GostHacked]

9 hours ago, Argus said:

Not really fair. A home grown 'arab spring' type revolt was what started the war against Assad. Until then the west wasn't doing much of anything towards him.

Now after witnessing all the brutality and violence and finding there is no side her to side with the West has shrugged helplessly. It does not want to see the same thing mirrored in Saudi Arabia. As I said earlier, there is no group that is likely to take over from the Saudi family other than a Taliban like group who are much worse. So what is the end game in trying to dislodge the Saud family?

That question should have been asked back in 2003 when the US invaded Afghanistan. Followed by the invasion of Iraq in 2006, ... and on and on. Why the apprehension this time?

[betsy]

Canada is standing alone.  I don't think there's any country that officially speaks in support of Canada over this.

 

A very interesting explanation yesterday from a lady expert interviewed at CBC (can't recall her name).  Without the protection of the USA - yes, believe it or not, that's what she said -  especially now that we've very  obviously been "set adrift" by Trump -

we are a sitting duck (or a punching bag).

 

 

The worse case scenario from this mistake?  Trudeau's seen as a grandstanding, meddling, sanctimonious p****.  The Middle East might get on board with Saudi Arabia to force an apology from Trudeau, or just to make their own statement.  

 

 

Quote

 

Other countries in Middle East could welcome 'getting tough on Canada'

Bessma Momani, an analyst on Middle East affairs and professor at the University of Waterloo, said the move resonates positively among Saudis, but also among the country's allies in the region.

Momani called it "getting tough on Canada," which she said other countries in the region might welcome if they view Canadian foreign policy to be led by human rights concerns.

'We're not an important country'

There could be a sentiment among allies that, "Finally the Trudeau government is getting poked back in the eye by the Saudis."

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-saudi-diplomacy-reaction-1.4775545

 

 

Quote

Pakistan backs Saudi Arabia in Canada row

http://www.arabnews.com/node/1353736/saudi-arabia

 

Quote

Arab states back Saudi Arabia in expelling Canadian ambassador over human rights dispute

 

  The Kingdom of Bahrain, the United Arab Emirates and the Palestinian Authority have all released statements voicing their support for Saudi Arabia’s decision to expel Canadian ambassador Dennis Horak.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4372854/arab-states-back-saudi-arabia-canadian-dispute/

 

See what happens when you use tweeter as your "diplomacy" tool?

Edited August 10, 2018 by betsy

[capricorn]

12 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

That's right....Japan too...just executed the last of convicted cult terrorists last week.

Like the Saudis, Japan doesn't give a damn about Trudeau or Freeland's "Canadian values" either.

Sovereign states have the right to set their own justice systems without interference from other nations. Let's reverse the situation and suppose it was the KSA that was publicly criticizing Canada for being too lenient in prosecuting and punishing criminals. Would Canada remain silent? Or would Canada rebuke the KSA for interfering. The answer is fairly obvious.

[cannuck]

2 hours ago, betsy said:

See what happens when you use tweeter as your "diplomacy" tool?

I think what you meant was "when you elect a mentally inadequate child to run a country and he selects a politically correct and ignorant band of morons for a cabinet".

Edited August 10, 2018 by cannuck

[betsy]

1 hour ago, cannuck said:

I think what you meant was "when you elect a mentally inadequate child to run a country and he selects a politically correct and ignorant band of morons for a cabinet".

I kinda speculate Freeland could be simply trying to please Justin, "okay, if you want me to tweet that, I'll do it."  or, maybe....she was just simply told to do it.

Edited August 10, 2018 by betsy

[betsy]

Btw, what is Raif doing in Saudi Arabia?   Does anyone know?  I mean.....you can blog anywhere you are.  You don't have to be there, right?

[Wilber]

2 hours ago, capricorn said:

Sovereign states have the right to set their own justice systems without interference from other nations. Let's reverse the situation and suppose it was the KSA that was publicly criticizing Canada for being too lenient in prosecuting and punishing criminals. Would Canada remain silent? Or would Canada rebuke the KSA for interfering. The answer is fairly obvious.

Sure, but would we break diplomatic relations and declare economic and social war on that country? Of course not and neither would any other western democracy.

[Wilber]

4 hours ago, betsy said:

Canada is standing alone.  I don't think there's any country that officially speaks in support of Canada over this.

 

A very interesting explanation yesterday from a lady expert interviewed at CBC (can't recall her name).  Without the protection of the USA - yes, believe it or not, that's what she said -  especially now that we've very  obviously been "set adrift" by Trump -

we are a sitting duck (or a punching bag).

 

 

The worse case scenario from this mistake?  Trudeau's seen as a grandstanding, meddling, sanctimonious p****.  The Middle East might get on board with Saudi Arabia to force an apology from Trudeau, or just to make their own statement.  

 

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-saudi-diplomacy-reaction-1.4775545

 

 

http://www.arabnews.com/node/1353736/saudi-arabia

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/4372854/arab-states-back-saudi-arabia-canadian-dispute/

 

See what happens when you use tweeter as your "diplomacy" tool?

Why is the approval so a turd like Trump so important to you?  Is he some kind of moral example that you look up to?

[Queenmandy85]

All this kurfuffle will blow over in a few days. Nothing we say on this forum will have the slightest effect on events. Nobody cares what we say about anything.

[scribblet]

This is very true, most of it is just useless noise anyway...

Trudeau needs to apologize to Western Canada for killing off energy east and to all Canadians for depriving us of energy independence so we could be free of despotic regimes.

 

[Wilber]

2 hours ago, cannuck said:

I think what you meant was "when you elect a mentally inadequate child to run a country and he selects a politically correct and ignorant band of morons for a cabinet".

This topic isn't about Trump.

[turningrite]

51 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

All this kurfuffle will blow over in a few days. Nothing we say on this forum will have the slightest effect on events. Nobody cares what we say about anything.

It seems that both sides, the Trudeau government and the Saudi regime, are ramping up this squabble for domestic consumption. The Trudeau Libs, of course, get to preach about "our values" and the Saudis get to put dissidents in their place as well as assert that their regime must not be criticized by moralizing Westerners. Of course, neither side will take this too far. Trudeau will be content to drone on about "our values" (Wouldn't that be "dog whistle" speech coming from anybody else on the political spectrum?) without explicitly contrasting them with the fundamentalist (ahem, Islamic?) values espoused by the Saudi regime. And the Saudis will of course keep sending oil to parts of Canada where Western Canadian oil isn't permitted to reach. Neither side will openly address the ongoing slaughter in Yemen nor the massive Western arms sales that help to fuel the situation. As the economic relationship between the two countries is so marginal, this spat mainly amounts to a communications win-win for the posturing regimes. Nothing of importance will happen and both sides will claim a moral victory to their respective domestic audiences.

Edited August 10, 2018 by turningrite

[capricorn]

41 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

All this kurfuffle will blow over in a few days.

That depends whether Trudeau/Freeland don't make another boneheaded undiplomatic move to escalate the situation.

Quote

Nothing we say on this forum will have the slightest effect on events. Nobody cares what we say about anything.

Sure, but it's a great place to vent.

[turningrite]

26 minutes ago, capricorn said:

1.) That depends whether Trudeau/Freeland don't make another boneheaded undiplomatic move to escalate the situation.

2.) Sure, but it's a great place to vent.

1.) I'm sure Freeland has been advised to be more careful. Our government can't say much about the really problematic aspects of Saudi policy, like the war in Yemen, when we sell arms to the Saudi regime. So, we're complicit, and I'd bet the Saudis know hypocrites when they see them.

2.) It's kind of the point of online forums, isn't it. I wonder why anybody would be on here other than to express their opinions and read those of others? Most of us have no role to play in the halls of power but for the time being this remains mainly a free country. Vent on we must...

[Centerpiece]

2 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

All this kurfuffle will blow over in a few days. 

A wise man once asked me..."How many insignificants does it take to make a significant". Similarly, how many "kerfuffles" does it take to make a KA-BOOM? 

[eyeball]

6 hours ago, capricorn said:

Let's reverse the situation and suppose it was the KSA that was publicly criticizing Canada for being too lenient in prosecuting and punishing criminals. Would Canada remain silent? Or would Canada rebuke the KSA for interfering. The answer is fairly obvious.

On one level the KSA is in fact criticizing Canada's leniency which of course is due to our progressiveness - something that faces constant criticism if not assault all the time right here at home.

Its why our values in this case appear to have been largely left up to lefties to defend. What do you think would be happening here if this was about abortion rights?

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

All this kurfuffle will blow over in a few days. Nothing we say on this forum will have the slightest effect on events. Nobody cares what we say about anything.

True enough but the wind blowing this kerfuffle thru will never stop blowing.

[turningrite]

19 minutes ago, eyeball said:

True enough but the wind blowing this kerfuffle thru will never stop blowing.

This will blow over. Neither country will let it escalate to the point that it irreparably interferes with the minimal commercial relationship that now exists. We could have halted the shipment of military equipment to Saudi Arabia and/or taken other meaningful action like terminating the status of all Saudi temporary residents/students/workers currently in Canada as well as suspending all visa applications. And we might have applied such measures to the regimes that have sided with the Saudis. But we haven't done any of this. The Saudis, meanwhile, could have embargoed shipments of oil to this country and could have cancelled the contract for military vehicles Canada is sending to that country. Alas, these things haven't happened. This is now a propaganda skirmish, with the Trudeau government harping on about "our values" to an eager progressive audience at home while the Saudi government flexes its reactionary muscles to prove to domestic hardliners and allies that its reform plans are minimal and it will continue to suppress dissidents.

[betsy]

5 hours ago, Wilber said:

Why is the approval so a turd like Trump so important to you?  Is he some kind of moral example that you look up to?

Lol.  You do have serious comprehension problem, doncha?   I was simply repeating what that lady on tv said.

Edited August 10, 2018 by betsy

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, turningrite said:

This is now a propaganda skirmish, with the Trudeau government harping on about "our values" to an eager progressive audience at home

Don't worry, Trudeau doesn't want to give up military sales to dictators anymore than anyone else.   This is just a typically ideological skirmish about the triumph of virtue over economics along with everything else.  The legitimization and normalization of dictatorship is just necessary part of cementing that paradigm into place.

Quote

while the Saudi government flexes its reactionary muscles to prove to domestic hardliners and allies that its reform plans are minimal and it will continue to suppress dissidents.

Be patient, everyone gets that -  as I said above dictatorships possess a new legitimacy but perhaps Trudeau just hasn't kissed Saudi ass fast enough for some Canadians liking.

Edited August 10, 2018 by eyeball

[Wilber]

48 minutes ago, betsy said:

Lol.  You do have serious comprehension problem, doncha?   I was simply repeating what that lady on tv said.

Why? You don't agree with her? 

[Wilber]

It's not about us