Doug Ford - leader of Ontario PCs

[Argus]

2 hours ago, dialamah said:

The bottom 90% of all earners live on a fraction of the net income of the top 1% of earners.  Does that change your mind?   Didn't think so.

The economic rewards of Capitalism incentivize behaviour which enriches the nation. The more you do away with those rewards, the less of that behaviour we see, and consequently, the poorer the nation - and all is citizens, are.

[Centerpiece]

3 hours ago, dialamah said:

The bottom 90% of all earners live on a fraction of the net income of the top 1% of earners.  Does that change your mind?   Didn't think so.

Not as far as taxes are concerned - the 1% make a lot - and pay their fair share of taxes - if not more - as has been shown. I'm certainly part of the 90% and I'm very happy. My mother is part of the bottom 50% - and she's very happy. If you took the excesses of the very top earners and spread it around - it really wouldn't make much of a difference....other than de-incentify people to make a lot of money. As I've said before - Capitalism and social programs (not socialISM) need to work together and overall, Canada does a pretty good job of it.

[H10]

On 6/14/2018 at 6:07 AM, betsy said:

EH????  Do you understand what you read?

Ford couldn't have lied if he made no such claims.   You say he lied.   You're making that claim.  So, I'm calling you on it.

I'm challenging you to cite your source for the info that says he gave money to the widow.  Translation:   I think you're the one who's lying.

Show where he said he gave her money.

[betsy]

13 minutes ago, H10 said:

Show where he said he gave her money.

EH?   You can't, can you? 

[H10]

On 6/14/2018 at 8:07 AM, Centerpiece said:

I want you to read/listen very, very carefully. This could be a valuable teaching moment for you - one that could be life-altering. The top 1% of earners in Canada pay 22% of ALL the tax that's collected. The top 10% pay 55%. That leaves the next 40% of earners - that middle class paying - wait for it - about 40% of all taxes collected. To finish off - that leaves the bottom 50% paying less than 5% of all taxes.

Does that change your mind? Didn't think so.

Link: http://business.financialpost.com/opinion/william-watson-thank-the-rich-theyre-the-ones-paying-for-everything

The top 1% are taking home a 600% increase in earnings since 1980s

 

 

Since the poor are seeing wage DECLINES, they are being punished by having to actually pay the same tax rates.  The rich should pay more, because 1 they are taking home all the new income, 2 they have sschemes to evade and reduce taxes down to unrealistically low levels like tax shelters, 3 progressive tax systems are good for society, 4 trickle up economics works, while trickle down economics is a failure.

Further the top 1% not only control more income, but they are also have such huge stores of wealth, many of them don't even have to earn an income to generate wealth. I'd say let have more wealth taxes and cut it on the middle class and poor.

[bush_cheney2004]

1 hour ago, H10 said:

The top 1% are taking home a 600% increase in earnings since 1980s

 

False....the CBPP data presented is for the United States, not Canada, and it does not include growth in earnings for ALL Quintiles since 2008.

 

Quote

Piketty and Saez rely on detailed Internal Revenue Service micro-files for available years, extending the full series to 1913 using aggregate data and statistical techniques. Their July 2010 revision incorporates the detailed micro-files for 2008 that have recently become available. For details on their methods, see Thomas Piketty and Emmanuel Saez, “Income Inequality in the United States: 1913-1998,”

https://www.cbpp.org/research/tax-data-show-richest-1-percent-took-a-hit-in-2008-but-income-remained-highly-concentrated

 

Edited June 15, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[Centerpiece]

1 hour ago, H10 said:

Further the top 1% not only control more income, but they are also have such huge stores of wealth, many of them don't even have to earn an income to generate wealth. I'd say let have more wealth taxes and cut it on the middle class and poor.

H10 - that's not how you have a dialogue with another poster. You specifically said that the rich paid NO tax and the middle class paid everything. I showed you that claim was not only wrong - it was outrageously wrong. So now you just ignore it - and move on to complain about income. Not much sense in trying to converse with you.

[H10]

22 hours ago, Centerpiece said:

H10 - that's not how you have a dialogue with another poster. You specifically said that the rich paid NO tax and the middle class paid everything. I showed you that claim was not only wrong - it was outrageously wrong. So now you just ignore it - and move on to complain about income. Not much sense in trying to converse with you.

No you did not, the wealthy corporations are evading their taxes through a series of tax fraud, tax schemes, tax avoidance, and tax schemes.  Corporate taxes are too low, there are no wealth taxes despite 2 Canadians having more wealth than the bottom 11 million.

The rich do not pay tax. Too many loopholes.  You did not show it wrong, you proved it right.

[cannuck]

On 6/14/2018 at 10:58 AM, Argus said:

The economic rewards of Capitalism incentivize behaviour which enriches the nation. The more you do away with those rewards, the less of that behaviour we see, and consequently, the poorer the nation - and all is citizens, are.

This is a fallacy.  Our economic structure does not reward those who MAKE money - it rewards those who simply take it.   If you create wealth (i.e. actually EARN money) your company making widgets or whatever would be damned lucky to ever pay a double digit dividend.  If you get your money by merely redistributing wealth by speculative gain, you create zero wealth, but redistribute it from the rest of the country - which is what makes the rest of the country poorer as the increase in money supply to cover pure speculation (or welfare, same thing) comes as a direct cost of debt or dillution of purchasing power of the currency of the nation.   We give endless incentives to this kind (Casino Capitalism) behaviour, and punish the crap out of wealth created by capitalistic endeavour.

[eyeball]

On 6/13/2018 at 8:23 AM, GostHacked said:

Hence 'hold my beer'.  That train wreck is TBD.

Seems to me the wreck has been underway for a number of years now and Doug Ford is just another flying boxcar. 

[eyeball]

On 6/14/2018 at 7:32 AM, dialamah said:

The bottom 90% of all earners live on a fraction of the net income of the top 1% of earners.  Does that change your mind?   Didn't think so.

The top 1% also command a disproportionate amount of influence over power in this country, something conservatives seem to think is as it should be.  

[betsy]

On 6/13/2018 at 8:46 AM, GostHacked said:

So this is how I feel about it.  I did not know anywhere else to put this...... I slapped this together last night   ..  mods remove if need be.

 

 

Does this look anywhere like a train wreck?  

 

 

Quote

 

American Job Openings Now Outnumber the Jobless

U.S. job openings rose to 6.7 million at the end of April, compared with the 6.3 million Americans who were unemployed

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/american-jobs-outnumber-the-jobless-1528212776

 

I'd take that so-called Trump "train wreck" anytime.............rather than our Liberal pile-up!

Edited June 17, 2018 by betsy

[betsy]

 

Doug Ford is delivering a promise asap!  

 

 

Quote

 

Doug Ford says first job is to kill carbon cap-and-trade system

“Upon the swearing in of my new cabinet, at the top of our agenda, the very first item will be to pass an order to cancel the Liberal cap-and-trade carbon tax,” he told a news conference Friday.

 

https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2018/06/15/doug-ford-puts-gasoline-companies-on-notice-over-weekend-price-hikes.html

Edited June 17, 2018 by betsy

[cannuck]

10 hours ago, eyeball said:

The top 1% also command a disproportionate amount of influence over power in this country, something conservatives seem to think is as it should be.  

Yes, no doubt the top 1% wields an immense amount of influence over government, but Conservatives, Liberals and NDP (similarly the Uniparty of the US) all do exactly the same thing as far as influence peddling to the 1%ers goes.   Actual conservatives (of which we have none in Ottawa or DC) would not be doing this as it is contrary to genuinely conservative beliefs.  What is needed is a frank discussion of how economies work, how legislation and regulation affect changes (or not) and what it is that actually creates wealth rather than simply facilitating wealth re-distribution.  ALL of these things were extremely well understood in the '30s

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, cannuck said:

Actual conservatives (of which we have none in Ottawa or DC) would not be doing this as it is contrary to genuinely conservative beliefs.  What is needed is a frank discussion of how economies work, how legislation and regulation affect changes (or not) and what it is that actually creates wealth rather than simply facilitating wealth re-distribution.  ALL of these things were extremely well understood in the '30s

No, we need a more frank discussion about how power works.  Get better control over how power is distributed  and wealth will follow.

Wealth is nothing without power.

[cannuck]

2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No, we need a more frank discussion about how power works.  Get better control over how power is distributed  and wealth will follow.

Wealth is nothing without power.

Could not agree more.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, cannuck said:

Could not agree more.

Everyone says that.

[cannuck]

2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Everyone says that.

But: I have yet to encounter more than a tiny handful who are prepared to do so.   When we brought Douglas over to speak with policymakers, not a single elected person would meet with him.

[eyeball]

Just now, cannuck said:

But: I have yet to encounter more than a tiny handful who are prepared to do so.   When we brought Douglas over to speak with policymakers, not a single elected person would meet with him.

I've yet to meet anyone who is, I mean everyone is keen to see what other parties and politicians are up to but as soon as their team gets in everything is just fine.

[cannuck]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

I've yet to meet anyone who is, I mean everyone is keen to see what other parties and politicians are up to but as soon as their team gets in everything is just fine.

That is why our band of shit disturbers long ago left the realm of partisan politics to put pressure on from outside.  Problem is:  John Q. Public doesn't really give a damn.

[capricorn]

A tweet from Steve Paiken of TVO,s Agenda..

Quote

the order has gone out to all deputy ministers at queen's park: hiring freeze is on, cancel all paper-based newspaper/magazine subscriptions, new restrictions on out-of-province travel, no food at taxpayers' expense approved for in-house meetings. #onpoli

https://www.google.ca/search?ei=AMcnW-C9MMrR5gLHjYHABQ&q=steve+paikin+twitter&oq=steve+paikin+tw&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.0.8292.14418.0.18948.9.8.1.0.0.0.175.911.2j6.8.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.9.918...0i67k1j35i39k1j0i20i263k1j33i160k1j0i22i30k1.0.WXhXn5NGLoA

Many are now locking their doors and crawling under the bed.

[Argus]

4 hours ago, capricorn said:

A tweet from Steve Paiken of TVO,s Agenda..

https://www.google.ca/search?ei=AMcnW-C9MMrR5gLHjYHABQ&q=steve+paikin+twitter&oq=steve+paikin+tw&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.0.8292.14418.0.18948.9.8.1.0.0.0.175.911.2j6.8.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.9.918...0i67k1j35i39k1j0i20i263k1j33i160k1j0i22i30k1.0.WXhXn5NGLoA

Many are now locking their doors and crawling under the bed.

The ban on hospitality is kind of dumb, but I suppose symbolic. Wage freeze will come next.  Count on it.

Edited June 18, 2018 by Argus

[capricorn]

Good strategy. Incremental steps in order not to throw too many of his critics into a panic.

[capricorn]

Ford's 21 member cabinet.

Peter Bethlenfalvy (Pickering—Uxbridge) – President of the Treasury Board

Raymond Cho (Scarborough—Rouge River) Minister for Seniors and Accessibility

Steve Clark (Leeds—Grenville) Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing

Christine Elliott (Newmarket—Aurora) Minister of Health and Long-Term Care and Deputy Premier

Victor Fedeli (Nipissing) Minister of Finance and Chair of Cabinet

Doug Ford (Etobicoke North) assumes role as Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs in addition to premiership

Merrilee Fullerton (Kanata—Carleton) Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities

Ernie Hardeman (Oxford) Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs

Sylvia Jones (Dufferin—Caledon) Minister for Tourism, Culture and Sport

Lisa MacLeod (Nepean—Carleton) Minister of Children, Community and Social Services and Minister responsible for Women’s Issues

Monte McNaughton (Lambton—Kent—Middlesex) Minister of Infrastructure

Caroline Mulroney (York—Simcoe) Attorney General and Minister Respsonsible for Francophone Affairs

Rod Phillips (Ajax) Minister of the Environment, Conservation and Parkland

Greg Rickford (Kenora—Rainy River) Minister of Energy, Northern Development and Mines and Indigenous Affairs

Laurie Scott (Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock) Minister of Labour

Todd Smith (Bay of Quinte) Minister of Government and Consumer Services, Government House Leader

Lisa Thompson (Huron—Bruce) Minister of Education

Michael Tibollo (Vaughan—Woodbridge) Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services

Jim Wilson (Simcoe—Grey) Minister of Economic Development, Job Creation and Trade

John Yakabuski (Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke) Minister of Transportation

Jeff Yurek (Elgin—Middlesex—London) Minister of Natural Resources and Forestry

[taxme]

On 6/5/2018 at 8:53 AM, Michael Hardner said:

Also - the CBC poll tracker has never shown a Ford majority as anything less than extremely likely so what the fudge is going on about ?

That polls don't work. They are all just plain bull chit. The only poll that will count is the one that shows us as to who won the election. Most polls always will try to favor liberals to win. I wonder why?