Homosexuality In The Bible

[Michael Hardner]

35 minutes ago, dialamah said:

...if God is responsible for all creation then he is also responsible for homosexual behavior among animals and people. 

This line of reason will get you nowhere.  God makes people and gives them the freedom to choose sin or not.  They will tell you that homosexuality is a choice...

[Hal 9000]

Just a quick question; Are there any people here who hate or revile Christians?

[dialamah]

26 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

This line of reason will get you nowhere.  God makes people and gives them the freedom to choose sin or not.  They will tell you that homosexuality is a choice...

Is it a choice if the wrong choice is eternal torture/death?  I think that's coercion, not choice.  But yeah, believers gonna believe. 

[dialamah]

22 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

Just a quick question; Are there any people here who hate or revile Christians?

Only those that supplant judgement and hatred for acceptance and love.   I have said before that faith makes some people better, but others it makes worse.  If a person's faith means they think they have the right to impose what they believe on others, through violent or political means, I am ok reviling them.  If one's faith is about inviting others to join, through their actions and words, then no reviling from me.

From their postings here, I would place Betsy and Altai in group 1 and Blackbird in group 2.  Of course, they may be very different in real life, so this is merely how the expression of their beliefs on this forum comes across to me.

[Hal 9000]

38 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

This line of reason will get you nowhere.  God makes people and gives them the freedom to choose sin or not.  They will tell you that homosexuality is a choice...

I know what you're saying, I've seen it too.  Sometimes I see a kid of 3, 4 or 5 and I just know that kid is gay AF.

[Hal 9000]

2 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Only those that supplant judgement and hatred for acceptance and love.   I have said before that faith makes some people better, but others it makes worse.  If a person's faith means they think they have the right to impose what they believe on others, through violent or political means, I am ok reviling them.  If one's faith is about inviting others to join, through their actions and words, then no reviling from me.

From their postings here, I would place Betsy and Altai in group 1 and Blackbird in group 2.  Of course, they may be very different in real life, so this is merely how the expression of their beliefs on this forum comes across to me.

So, you'd agree that you hate individuals, but not necessarily Christians?  You can hate Muslims or Jews for the exact same things as Christians, but not because they are Muslims, Jews or Christians - right?  You always come across as a person who hates Christians, I guess that's not accurate.  

[dialamah]

25 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

So, you'd agree that you hate individuals, but not necessarily Christians?  You can hate Muslims or Jews for the exact same things as Christians, but not because they are Muslims, Jews or Christians - right?  You always come across as a person who hates Christians, I guess that's not accurate.  

Yup, I think individuals should be responsible for their own actions and have said so many times.  I am misunderstood because I usually say so in the context of a discussion about Muslims, as a group with few exceptions, being essentially barbaric killers who oppress women and kill homosexuals.    Every time there is a news story about a Muslim behaving badly, its trotted out as proof that this is standard behavior for Muslims.  News stories about Muslims behaving exactly as we'd like is dismissed as being unusual and not "Muslim".  Can you imagine if Christians or Jews were portrayed that way?  Jewish, Christianity and Islam all share essentially the same beliefs: male-dominated, homophobic and "one-true-wayism", requiring believers to exclude others from salvation and often to convert others through evangelism or, for extremists, by force.  The best that can be said about Christianity is that secularism has ameliorated much of it's ugliness in the Western world.  In Africa and the Middle East, Christans have more in common with Muslims in terms of their cultural attitudes towards homosexuality and male-female relations than they do with Christians in the Western world.

 

Edited March 3, 2018 by dialamah
Typo

[Hal 9000]

4 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Yup, I think individuals should be responsible for their own actions and have said so many times.  I am misunderstood because I usually say so in the context of a discussion about Muslims, as a group with few exceptions, being essentially barbaric killers who oppress women and kill homosexuals.    Every time there is a news story about a Muslim behaving badly, its trotted out as proof that this is standard behavior for Muslims.  News stories about Muslims behaving exactly as we'd like is dismissed as being unusual and not "Muslim".  Can you imagine if Christians or Jews were portrayed that way?  Jewish, Christianity and Islam all share essentially the same beliefs: male-dominated, homophobic and "one-true-wayism", requiring believers to exclude others from salvation and often to convert others through evangelism or, for extremists, by force.  The best that can be said about Christianity is that secularism has ameliorated much of it's ugliness in the Western world.  In Africa and the Middle East, Christans have more in common with Muslims in terms of their cultural attitudes towards homosexuality and male-female relations than they do with Christians in the Western world.

 

So, if you can hate of dislike religion based on a common philosophy that most seem to display, and you can dislike some people based on how they represent or live their lives based on that religion, but not actual individuals of a religious faith, wouldn't it be fair to assume that someone can legitimately dislike homosexuality and/or the actions of some homosexuals without hating homosexuals in general?

[dialamah]

50 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

So, if you can hate of dislike religion based on a common philosophy that most seem to display, and you can dislike some people based on how they represent or live their lives based on that religion, but not actual individuals of a religious faith, wouldn't it be fair to assume that someone can legitimately dislike homosexuality and/or the actions of some homosexuals without hating homosexuals in general?

Sure, why not?   I am reasonably certain both my Christian and Muslim friends dislike/disapprove of homosexuality, but I don't see them actively opposing things such as school curriculums designed to promote acceptance of LGBTQ youth, as part of a strategy to reduce bullying and prevent suicide or demonstrating against the legalization of gay marriage, or even trying to persuade others that their religiously-based views on homosexuality is what should prevail in Canadian culture. 

Edited March 3, 2018 by dialamah

[Hal 9000]

So, If we are allowed to claim that we hate Christianity, but don't hate Christians, why are people who are opposed to homosexuality accused of hating homos?

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

So, If we are allowed to claim that we hate Christianity, but don't hate Christians, why are people who are opposed to homosexuality accused of hating homos?

Maybe they do.  There's nothing wrong with hating.  So long as one doesn't hurt anyone.

[Hal 9000]

It's encouraging to me that I posed a question 2 1/2 hours ago and nobody has fessed up to hating Christians.   

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

It's encouraging to me that I posed a question 2 1/2 hours ago and nobody has fessed up to hating Christians.   

Maybe nobody does.  There's an awful lot of them.  I can see hating some of them.

[WestCoastRunner]

1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

Maybe nobody does.  There's an awful lot of them.  I can see hating some of them.

No one here of course

[WestCoastRunner]

2 hours ago, Hal 9000 said:

So, If we are allowed to claim that we hate Christianity, but don't hate Christians, why are people who are opposed to homosexuality accused of hating homos?

Why do you keep on calling gay people homos?  You know it’s derogatory. Would you call a black person the n word? 

[taxme]

On 3/2/2018 at 8:05 AM, betsy said:

This is the thread to discuss whether homosexuality indeed, is not acceptable to God, or if it is.   One of our posters is very much into this discussion, so I think it best to have a separate thread for it.  I had looked up some arguments being made for homosexuality - that basically says, "it's all a misunderstanding,  something was wrong with the translation and context." 

I would like to tackle some arguments from GayChurch.org.

 

In the Creation Narrative of Adam and Eve,

 

https://www.gaychurch.org/homosexuality-and-the-bible/the-bible-christianity-and-homosexuality/

 

Adam and Eve narrative is not merely given as a procreation story.  It goes well beyond the physical union of a man and a woman. 

 

Genesis 2

²² And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

²³ And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

²⁴ Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

²⁵ And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

 

Why do you have to leave your parents if it's just to procreate?  It's a whole lot more than just that.

 

Adam and Eve narrative,  is given as the history of  the institution of marriage (the union between a man and a woman ), and family.   

 

To become one flesh - meaning to be one spiritually, emotionally, financially, intellectually. 

 

https://www.gotquestions.org/one-flesh-marriage.html

 

 

 

To be continued....

These gay men and women seem to think that they came about not by a man and woman relationship but by some divine intervention. 

Let's put all gay men on one island and put all gay women on another island far apart from each other and let's see you will be around in a hundred years? But put men and women together on another island and I am dam sure that there will still be life in a hundred years living and thriving on that island. Homosexuality is not normal. If homosexuality were the norm none of us would be here today. 

 

[WestCoastRunner]

5 minutes ago, taxme said:

These gay men and women seem to think that they came about not by a man and woman relationship but by some divine intervention. 

Let's put all gay men on one island and put all gay women on another island far apart from each other and let's see you will be around in a hundred years? But put men and women together on another island and I am dam sure that there will still be life in a hundred years living and thriving on that island. Homosexuality is not normal. If homosexuality were the norm none of us would be here today. 

 

I bet you did well on the debate team 

[taxme]

11 minutes ago, WestCoastRunner said:

I bet you did well on the debate team 

Hey, if you want to debate let's debate. I am not afraid to do so on anything. But as you probably know by now I do speak political incorrectness and this may upset you at times during our debate. Everyone has a right to their opinion. If you can't handle that than you should not consider trying to debate with anyone at all. Go join the one sided opinion club if you want to feel at home. Just saying. 

But of course you have to agree with me on what I said, right? How can you not? 

Edited March 3, 2018 by taxme

[WestCoastRunner]

1 minute ago, taxme said:

Hey, if you want to debate let's debate. I am not afraid to do so on anything. But as you probably know by now I do speak political incorrectness and this may upset you at times during our debate. Everyone has a right to their opinion. If you can't handle that than you should not consider trying to debate with anyone at all. Go join the one sided opinion club if you want to feel at home. Just saying. 

But of course you have to agree with me on what I said, right? How can you not? 

Voting gay people off the big island to their own island? I don’t understand your point. That would never happen. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, taxme said:

These gay men and women seem to think that they came about not by a man and woman relationship but by some divine intervention. 

Let's put all gay men on one island and put all gay women on another island far apart from each other and let's see you will be around in a hundred years? But put men and women together on another island and I am dam sure that there will still be life in a hundred years living and thriving on that island. Homosexuality is not normal. If homosexuality were the norm none of us would be here today. 

 

I think what is normal is for there to be a percentage of the popluation that is homosexual, and another, larger percentage of the population that is heterosexual.

That seems to be the way things are, so, perfectly normal.

[eyeball]

On 3/2/2018 at 8:05 AM, betsy said:

This is the thread to discuss whether homosexuality indeed, is not acceptable to God, or if it is.   

C'mon Betsy, are you suggesting you don't already know the answer to this?

 

[Michael Hardner]

13 minutes ago, eyeball said:

C'mon Betsy, are you suggesting you don't already know the answer to this?

The answer is two-part:

1. Jesus would have tolerated sinners.

2. There's no God, and therefore he's ok with gayness and - being omnipotent and omniscient - has signed off on not existing.

[WestCoastRunner]

27 minutes ago, eyeball said:

C'mon Betsy, are you suggesting you don't already know the answer to this?

 

In her world she knows. Speaking as a mom of a gay son, I find Betsy’s threads on the lgbt community a constant excuse to promote intolerance, hatred and violence towards the lgbt community.   I won’t stop calling her or anyone else out on their hateful posts  

This is what mama bears do. Watch out Betsy.  

 

Edited March 4, 2018 by WestCoastRunner

[Hal 9000]

3 hours ago, WestCoastRunner said:

Why do you keep on calling gay people homos?  You know it’s derogatory. Would you call a black person the n word? 

Because it's a prefix.  I call heterosexuals "heteros" too.  Does that bother you too? 

BTW - You never did tell me how I was twisting into knots in the other thread, so....Let's hear it.

[WestCoastRunner]

5 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

Because it's a prefix.  I call heterosexuals "heteros" too.  Does that bother you too? 

BTW - You never did tell me how I was twisting into knots in the other thread, so....Let's hear it.

You know homo is derogatory and you still keep using it. Why?  It doesn’t matter if it’s a prefix or not. As to your twisting about. Honestly hal it’s so obvious.