betsy Posted July 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Goddess said: You will have to show me where Jesus said "If a person is gay, you must not do business with them in any way. EH? Who's claiming that???? Where did you read that?? Why should i waste my time doing that? You can't even get the issue straight! It's obvious - you've got comprehension issues! Help yourself! Review the Court Rulings!! I don't have to spoon-feed you every step of the way! Edited July 5, 2018 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted July 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Goddess said: Muslim extremists think the same way as you do. I see no difference between you and Muslim extremists. ....because, it's obvious. You don't think straight.........you don't see straight. You give such foolish responses when it comes to LGBT issues. You shouldn't respond with your emotions. Edited July 5, 2018 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Posted July 5, 2018 Report Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) 49 minutes ago, betsy said: You shouldn't respond with your emotions. OK. I'll respond with science. In all sexual species, you can have: females be XX and males be X (insects) females be ZW and males be ZZ (birds) females may become female becasue they develop in a warmer environment, and males become males because they develop in a cooler environment (reptiles) females can become females due to losing a penis swordfight (flatworms) males can be born female and change sex because there is a lack of males around (parrotfish, clownfish) some males look and act like females because they are trying to get close to females to mate with them (cuttlefish, bluegills, etc.) or you can be one of thousands of sexes (mold, mushrooms) Did you mean humans? You can be male even if you were born female, if you have 5-alphareductase defiiciency and so you grew a penis at age 12 you can be female because you have an X and a Y chromosome, but your Y is missing the SRY gene you can be male because you have two X chromosomes, but one of your X's has an SRY gene you can be male because one you have 2 X chromosomes, but you also have a Y you can be female because you only have one X chromosome you can be male because you have 2 X chromosomes, but your heart and brain are female ......and vice versa. You can't use science to justify your bigotry and hatred. The world is too weird for that. Strange that your God doesn't know all this. Unless.......you're following a book written by men who didn't have this kind of information available to them at the time, so out of fear and ignorance and desire for power they invented a bunch of nonsense. Some cultures respected "two-spirit" people and they became shamans and healers. Unfortunately, your's decided they should all be killed and/or burn in hell. And you know full well that Christian extremists who don't want to bake a cake for gay people, are setting up for doing far, far worse to them. Hahaha! You, yourself, celebrate every time rights are taken away from people you hate. Also, your responses to me contained nothing but insults. Which tells me that YOU are the one reacting emotionally to this topic. (Lightbulb moment for me! THIS must be why you can't respond without overuse of emojis. BINGO!) Funny how Christians oppose homosexuality because "It says so in the Bible!!!!!!!" But when asked about why God allows people to own other people as slaves, you get a 20 minute lecture about the social constructs of the day, cultural and societal changes over time and a breakdown on the nature of the history of language and how certain words don't translate well........... Edited July 5, 2018 by Goddess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted July 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Goddess said: OK. I'll respond with science. In all sexual species, you can have: females be XX and males be X (insects) females be ZW and males be ZZ (birds) females may become female becasue they develop in a warmer environment, and males become males because they develop in a cooler environment (reptiles) females can become females due to losing a penis swordfight (flatworms) males can be born female and change sex because there is a lack of males around (parrotfish, clownfish) some males look and act like females because they are trying to get close to females to mate with them (cuttlefish, bluegills, etc.) or you can be one of thousands of sexes (mold, mushrooms) Did you mean humans? You can be male even if you were born female, if you have 5-alphareductase defiiciency and so you grew a penis at age 12 you can be female because you have an X and a Y chromosome, but your Y is missing the SRY gene you can be male because you have two X chromosomes, but one of your X's has an SRY gene you can be male because one you have 2 X chromosomes, but you also have a Y you can be female because you only have one X chromosome you can be male because you have 2 X chromosomes, but your heart and brain are female ......and vice versa. You can't use science to justify your bigotry and hatred. The world is too weird for that. Strange that your God doesn't know all this. Unless.......you're following a book written by men who didn't have this kind of information available to them at the time, so out of fear and ignorance and desire for power they invented a bunch of nonsense. Some cultures respected "two-spirit" people and they became shamans and healers. Unfortunately, your's decided they should all be killed and/or burn in hell. And you know full well that Christian extremists who don't want to bake a cake for gay people, are setting up for doing far, far worse to them. Hahaha! You, yourself, celebrate every time rights are taken away from people you hate. Also, your responses to me contained nothing but insults. Which tells me that YOU are the one reacting emotionally to this topic. (Lightbulb moment for me! THIS must be why you can't respond without overuse of emojis. BINGO!) Funny how Christians oppose homosexuality because "It says so in the Bible!!!!!!!" But when asked about why God allows people to own other people as slaves, you get a 20 minute lecture about the social constructs of the day, cultural and societal changes over time and a breakdown on the nature of the history of language and how certain words don't translate well........... Lol. Another foolish response! Science arguments are irrelevant! READ THE TITLE OF THIS THREAD!! HOMOSEXUALITY IN THE BIBLE! Do you comprehend why science would be irrelevant? Edited July 5, 2018 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 5, 2018 Report Share Posted July 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, betsy said: Do you comprehend why science would be irrelevant? I never like jumping into threads after such a long break but wouldn't the Bible's views on homosexuality be irrelevant? To all except those who choose them to be relevant to themselves. If this point has been made I apologise for repeating it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Posted July 5, 2018 Report Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, betsy said: Do you comprehend why science would be irrelevant? I can see why science is irrelevant to you, that's for sure. But really, Betsy......if your only argument against homosexuality is "Because it says so in the Bible", you're practically illiterate. No different than Altai who chooses to remain illerate because she cannot understand more than 2 or 3 sentences put together at a time. Edited July 5, 2018 by Goddess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted July 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, bcsapper said: I never like jumping into threads after such a long break but wouldn't the Bible's views on homosexuality be irrelevant? To all except those who choose them to be relevant to themselves. If this point has been made I apologise for repeating it. Why would it be irrelevant when it's the very subject? One reason I created this thread is because of the incessant repetition of ignorance that Christ/God didn't say anything against homosexuality. It would be irrelevant to non-believers......but if non-believers keep coming to this thread and arguing about it, maybe it's not so irrelevant to them after all. At least, that's what it seems like. How can something irrelevant to a person bother that person.....to the point that they'd care enough to come in this thread, respond and debate about it? Edited July 5, 2018 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Posted July 5, 2018 Report Share Posted July 5, 2018 1 minute ago, betsy said: How can something irrelevant to a person bother that person? Are you homosexual? If not, then why would what the Bible says about it be relevant to you? You can easily follow it by not being homosexual. Yet, you seem extremely bothered by homosexuality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted July 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2018 8 minutes ago, Goddess said: I can see why science is irrelevant to you, that's for sure. But really, Betsy......if your only argument against homosexuality is "Because it says so in the Bible", you're practically illiterate. No different than Altai who chooses to remain illerate because she cannot understand more than 2 or 3 sentences put together at a time. There. You didn't comprehend again. Science is not irrelevant to me. Science is irrelevant to this topic. Somehow, you seem to have a terrible time grasping that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted July 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Goddess said: Are you homosexual? If not, then why would what the Bible says about it be relevant to you? You can easily follow it by not being homosexual. Yet, you seem extremely bothered by homosexuality. EHHH? Hahahahahahaha Bye Goddess. Enough derailment. Let's get back on topic. Edited July 5, 2018 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted July 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) Now, to get back on topic, let me re-post a statement in the OP. This is the thread to discuss whether homosexuality indeed, is not acceptable to God, or if it is. Edited July 5, 2018 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Posted July 5, 2018 Report Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, betsy said: This is the thread to discuss whether homosexuality indeed, is not acceptable to God, or if it is. That's what I'm discussing. Did you think we were all unclear on what you think the Bible says about homosexuality? Why not just start a thread that says, "I believe Homosexuality is condemned in the Bible and I don't want to hear anything else about it." You are starting to sound more and more like Altai every day - he/she/they do the same thing. Makes some kind of absurd statement and then refuses to allow any discussion on it. But I get it - that's how all religious extremists are. Edited July 5, 2018 by Goddess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Posted July 5, 2018 Report Share Posted July 5, 2018 13 minutes ago, betsy said: Science is not irrelevant to me. Science is irrelevant to this topic. Somehow, you seem to have a terrible time grasping that. Science is extremely relevant to this topic. The fact that you think it is not, is very telling, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted July 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Goddess said: I can see why science is irrelevant to you, that's for sure. But really, Betsy......if your only argument against homosexuality is "Because it says so in the Bible", you're practically illiterate. No different than Altai who chooses to remain illerate because she cannot understand more than 2 or 3 sentences put together at a time. For the last time, let me repeat to you: this is a thread about the Scripture's stance on homosexuality. So of course, the only opinion that matters would be that of the Bible. The title of this thread is very clear. Homosexuality in the Bible. Can't get any clearer than that. If you don't agree with the title, and the stated purpose of this thread......... that's not my problem. Create your own thread to discuss how you want homosexuality to be discussed. Edited July 5, 2018 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 5, 2018 Report Share Posted July 5, 2018 32 minutes ago, betsy said: Why would it be irrelevant when it's the very subject? One reason I created this thread is because of the incessant repetition of ignorance that Christ/God didn't say anything against homosexuality. It would be irrelevant to non-believers......but if non-believers keep coming to this thread and arguing about it, maybe it's not so irrelevant to them after all. At least, that's what it seems like. How can something irrelevant to a person bother that person.....to the point that they'd care enough to come in this thread, respond and debate about it? I got you. It's simply a discussion of the Biblical viewpoint and is concerned only with interpretation, not practical reality. I can see why some people would be interested in discussing such, seeing how the Bible, like all religious texts, is only interpretation. That interpretation is going to vary, of course. That's probably why I took such a long break from the thread. I was interested only in the real world application, and no doubt misread the OP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Posted July 5, 2018 Report Share Posted July 5, 2018 21 minutes ago, bcsapper said: I got you. It's simply a discussion of the Biblical viewpoint and is concerned only with interpretation, not practical reality. I can see why some people would be interested in discussing such, seeing how the Bible, like all religious texts, is only interpretation. That interpretation is going to vary, of course. That's probably why I took such a long break from the thread. I was interested only in the real world application, and no doubt misread the OP. Yes, I didn't realize she only wanted her own interpretation discussed. I'll have to remember that - Betsy and Altai are not here to discuss - only to teach the rest of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 5, 2018 Report Share Posted July 5, 2018 5 minutes ago, Goddess said: Yes, I didn't realize she only wanted her own interpretation discussed. I'll have to remember that - Betsy and Altai are not here to discuss - only to teach the rest of us. I always have trouble discerning religious viewpoints on a forum. The difference between "this is my view, and I'm going to act accordingly" and "this is my view, and others should be required to act accordingly" is sometimes difficult to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Posted July 5, 2018 Report Share Posted July 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, bcsapper said: I always have trouble discerning religious viewpoints on a forum. The difference between "this is my view, and I'm going to act accordingly" and "this is my view, and others should be required to act accordingly" is sometimes difficult to see. Well, it's not difficult to see when they celebrate human rights being taken away from others who don't hold their views and lobby for politicians to make laws according to their religious views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted July 6, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2018 (edited) 14 hours ago, bcsapper said: I got you. It's simply a discussion of the Biblical viewpoint and is concerned only with interpretation, not practical reality. I can see why some people would be interested in discussing such, seeing how the Bible, like all religious texts, is only interpretation. That interpretation is going to vary, of course. That's probably why I took such a long break from the thread. I was interested only in the real world application, and no doubt misread the OP. True, generally speaking about the Bible, there are varying interpretation (so many of them) - but we can find out which interpretations are true by studying the Bible. Isn't that a warning repeated several times by Christ? Remember that "I never knew you" verse....which is aimed at Christians? Matthew 7:21-23 If our purpose for becoming Christians is salvation and eternal life........then, the onus is on us to really know and understand what is expected from us - the requirements - to attain our end goals. Otherwise.....why bother? What's the point of going through all the posturing? OBEDIENCE is a huge part of it! You cannot say you've got faith in Christ if you don't practice obedience! Obey what exactly? We've got to know and understand what we're supposed to obey! Like we know we shouldn't put anyone, or anything above God, is one. Of course, non-believers (most, if not all of them whom I've encountered on forums), hardly understand what they're criticizing about. Like some samples here. They keep injecting their secular opinion in a religious doctrine - which is contradictory in itself! How can a non-believer even imagine her secular opinion is valid when we're talking about a very specific subject - Homosexuality in the Bible? The only relevancy I could think of would be that the Bible more likely associates them as a tool of Satan, trying to deceive and confuse us! Or, as an example of those who are "scoffers," or, spiritually lost and spiritually blind, and deaf! 1 Corinthians 2:14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. It's quite jaw-dropping how some posters can be so lucid and sensible in their arguments at other topics, and yet prove to be so.......irrational.....and cannot grasp and understand what is so simple when it comes to the Bible. Like, why is science's opinion irrelevant to this particular subject! Science, irrelevant to this topic - how can that be so hard to understand.....especially by those who can sensibly discuss in other topics? We know they're not dumb.....but why do they end up responding like so? As a religious, of course this verse comes to mind. Maybe, their presence in threads like this has a purpose. More aimed at believers, I suppose, showing them how some non-believers struggle! Like, these non-believers serve as samples! In black and white. It explains why some minds are unable to comprehend. ....supporting and vindicating the verses! Isaiah 44:18 They do not know, nor do they understand, for He has smeared over their eyes so that they cannot see and their hearts so that they cannot comprehend. Examples of some distorted interpretations: Christ is not a deity. Jesus is not God Himself, incarnate (which I tackled in another forum - a thread created solely for proving that He is). https://www.debatepolitics.com/theology/309564-god-himself-them.html Read this Homosexuality topic's OP, and a few posts after that. I tackled some interpretations with Biblical statements. Edited July 6, 2018 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted July 6, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2018 13 hours ago, bcsapper said: I always have trouble discerning religious viewpoints on a forum. The difference between "this is my view, and I'm going to act accordingly" and "this is my view, and others should be required to act accordingly" is sometimes difficult to see. It shouldn't be difficult in this topic, after all the title says it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 It seems that God was ok with homosexuality, and then some human changed Leviticus to make it seem He wasn't. there is good evidence that an earlier version of the laws in Leviticus 18 permitted sex between men. In addition to having the prohibition against same-sex relations added to it, the earlier text, I believe, was revised in an attempt to obscure any implication that same-sex relations had once been permissible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted July 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 (edited) deleted. Edited July 25, 2018 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted July 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 (edited) 21 hours ago, dialamah said: It seems that God was ok with homosexuality, and then some human changed Leviticus to make it seem He wasn't. there is good evidence that an earlier version of the laws in Leviticus 18 permitted sex between men. In addition to having the prohibition against same-sex relations added to it, the earlier text, I believe, was revised in an attempt to obscure any implication that same-sex relations had once been permissible. First of all, your source is an opinion piece. "I believe," does not necessarily mean it's a fact. Those ancient laws were meant for the Jews (because they were supposed to be a nation of priests). Some of those laws had become obsolete with the coming of the Messiah (Jesus Christ) - as an example, we are not required to sacrifice animals to atone for our sins. However, some of the laws still remain. The New Testament forbids homosexual relationships. If Leviticus was "doctored," surely Jesus Christ would've made sure to have mentioned and corrected it, just like the way He clarified divorce. Moses had made some changes, and permitted divorce. Jesus made some clarification. Take note that in this verse, He repeated too, about the union between male and female - genders are emphasized! Matthew 19 3 Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?” 4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’[a] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’[b]? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.” 7 “Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?” 8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.” So.....by that last statement, it looks like divorce for any other reason(s) and re-marriage, is still not okay with God. It's still adultery. God's view on homosexuality is strongly repeated, and taught in the New Testament. That's what count. Edited July 25, 2018 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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