Argus Posted January 27, 2018 Report Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, OftenWrong said: In regards to Brown, I don't know much about him as a person so I cannot say if it's true. It is not my place to say that. Judging the way everyone immediately abandoned him, that is interesting. Perhaps they knew something we don't know. I only hope it is no because of this disturbing trend to react to the latest outrage of the day. I think all it would take to abandon him would be political realism. They knew that, barring a miracle, he couldn't prove these accusations wrong. And that is the standard in the public arena now. Guilty once accused until proven innocent. They did not want the party going into an election with this hanging over their heads, to be gleefully used by the other two (female) party leaders, both of which were very, very quick to jump on this with all the self-righteous indignation you could expect of seeing evidence an opponent is acting like a heterosexual man. They would have made every day be about sexual harassment and how evil heterosexual men were. Edited January 27, 2018 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Michael Hardner Posted January 27, 2018 Report Posted January 27, 2018 8 hours ago, H10 said: Yup, Brown was stomachable to many liberals because he wasn't too conservative, Hardly. He recanted some earlier positions to ostensibly put himself in the centre but wouldn't have been acceptable to 'true' liberals. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Queenmandy85 Posted January 27, 2018 Report Posted January 27, 2018 In the political arena, what is fair does not always count. How many careers were destroyed by the anti-communist witch hunts of the 1950's. Remember what happened to Edmund Muskie. What happened to Brown is no different than the campaign to destroy Secretary Clinton and President Trump. Many people don't care if an accusation is true, only if they want it to be true. The best advice my dad ever gave me was "get out of politics." I had no idea how right he was. Quote A Conservative stands for God, King and Country
PIK Posted January 27, 2018 Report Posted January 27, 2018 15 hours ago, August1991 said: Michael Hardner, You have a progressive, JFK, 1960s view of the past. In fact, gentlemen before 1960 - before JFK and this so-called modern charisma - respected women. If they were gentlemen..... ==== Justin Trudeau is a 2000s version of JFK. And I suspect that Trudeau Jnr's no gentleman either - but in his case, it has nothing to do with sex. It has to do with being a man of honour. How about JT 's father and mother??? Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
August1991 Posted January 28, 2018 Report Posted January 28, 2018 (edited) 14 hours ago, Argus said: I think all it would take to abandon him would be political realism. They knew that, barring a miracle, he couldn't prove these accusations wrong. ... Argus, I disagree. Patrick Brown's final press conference was ultimately his political death: http://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1145227843995/ No competent politician speaks this way in public; Richard Nixon in 1962 did far better. Edited January 28, 2018 by August1991 Quote
August1991 Posted January 28, 2018 Report Posted January 28, 2018 12 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said: In the political arena, what is fair does not always count. How many careers were destroyed by the anti-communist witch hunts of the 1950's. Remember what happened to Edmund Muskie. As it happens, I remember Edmund Muskie. It was the first time that I understood that politicians (both left and right) will use whatever method to win. Later, I appreciated such dastardly methods - compared to a society "officially" without them. Quote
August1991 Posted January 28, 2018 Report Posted January 28, 2018 (edited) 14 hours ago, Argus said: The problem is the allegations are pretty much believable against pretty much any man. .... No, the allegations are not believable against any man. A civilised gentleman does not do what Patrick Brown is accused of doing. No one thinks civilised Michael Ignatieff would do such things. Stephen Harper? No one thinks even he would do such things. Say what you will about Harper but he is a civilised gentleman. ====== Christie Blatchford is wrong on this issue. Gentlemen do not do such things - heck, gentlemen are above suspicion. Edited January 28, 2018 by August1991 Quote
H10 Posted January 28, 2018 Author Report Posted January 28, 2018 14 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said: In the political arena, what is fair does not always count. How many careers were destroyed by the anti-communist witch hunts of the 1950's. Remember what happened to Edmund Muskie. What happened to Brown is no different than the campaign to destroy Secretary Clinton and President Trump. Many people don't care if an accusation is true, only if they want it to be true. The best advice my dad ever gave me was "get out of politics." I had no idea how right he was. How is it no different? Everything about Clinton bad is true. Quote
Argus Posted January 28, 2018 Report Posted January 28, 2018 (edited) 9 hours ago, August1991 said: No, the allegations are not believable against any man. A civilised gentleman does not do what Patrick Brown is accused of doing. Okay grandpa. Referring to another pair of old men and saying people wouldn't believe it of them is silly. Brown is in his thirties. And like Trudeau senior, was a player on parliament hill. There are damned few 'gentlemen' in their twenties and thirties today. Edited January 28, 2018 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
?Impact Posted January 28, 2018 Report Posted January 28, 2018 6 hours ago, Argus said: There are damned few 'gentlemen' in their twenties and thirties today. Should we then just accept ungentlemanly behavior? That will not help turn things around. Quote
Argus Posted January 28, 2018 Report Posted January 28, 2018 (edited) 25 minutes ago, ?Impact said: Should we then just accept ungentlemanly behavior? That will not help turn things around. I don't necessarily accept it but I'm not in the least surprised by it. I wonder if we're not doing the opposite of what progressives often do in judging people of the past by today's standards in trying to judge people of the present by yesterday's standards. There was a time when the expectations of a 'lady' and a 'gentlemen' were well-understood and taught to all young people. Today... who teaches young men to be gentlemen today? Regardless of the reality, the public personas of movie stars and singing stars of previous generations were suave gentlemen, and now we got hip hop stars singing about hos and bitches. John F Kennedy might not have always acted like a gentleman away from the cameras but now we've got Donald Trump. Young men used to read Shakespeare and Plato and now they read Facebook and trade pictures of naked girls on Snapchat. As for female stars, well, anyone wanna watch Miley Cyrus swinging naked on a construction ball or Lady Gaga swinging her big, spark spraying breasts around? Edited January 28, 2018 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Omni Posted January 28, 2018 Report Posted January 28, 2018 4 minutes ago, Argus said: I don't necessarily accept it but I'm not in the least surprised by it. I wonder if we're not doing the opposite of what progressives often do in judging people of the past by today's standards in trying to judge people of the present by yesterday's standards. There was a time when the expectations of a 'lady' and a 'gentlemen' were well-understood and taught to all young people. Today... who teaches young men to be gentlemen today? Regardless of the reality, the public personas of movie stars and singing stars of previous generations were suave gentlemen, and now we got hip hop stars singing about hos and bitches. John F Kennedy might not have always acted like a gentleman away from the cameras but now we've got Donald Trump. Young men used to read Shakespeare and Plato and now they read Facebook and trade pictures of naked girls on Snapchat. As for female stars, well, anyone wanna watch Miley Cyrus swinging naked on a construction ball or Lady Gaga swinging her big, spark spraying breasts around? Never mind lady Gaga or Miley Cyrus, porn movies have been available since as long as I can remember. What you seem to be suggesting is a pretty flimsy attempt at an excuse for simple bad behavior, which has also been around forever. Quote
taxme Posted January 28, 2018 Report Posted January 28, 2018 1 hour ago, ?Impact said: Should we then just accept ungentlemanly behavior? That will not help turn things around. What would be really great if people like you would start to show that you know something about something. So far that has not been working for you very well. I think that you been hanging around Omni for too long? Just wondering because I cannot make any heads from tails with that other guy either. Are you two related? Just wondering. Quote
taxme Posted January 28, 2018 Report Posted January 28, 2018 57 minutes ago, Omni said: Never mind lady Gaga or Miley Cyrus, porn movies have been available since as long as I can remember. What you seem to be suggesting is a pretty flimsy attempt at an excuse for simple bad behavior, which has also been around forever. I personally think that you have been around for too long. Just saying. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted January 29, 2018 Report Posted January 29, 2018 2 hours ago, Argus said: anyone wanna watch Miley Cyrus swinging naked on a construction ball Me please. If you want to see the embodiment of pure class, watch her performance in A Very Murray Christmas. What you are talking about, though, is the collapse of the 'public persona'. It was false to being with, as your example in JFK points out. Every major communication revolution washes away a previous generation's personas. Kennedy washed out Nixon, and now the TV politician has been supplanted by the TV reality star. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
OftenWrong Posted January 29, 2018 Report Posted January 29, 2018 1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said: What you are talking about, though, is the collapse of the 'public persona'. It was false to being with, as your example in JFK points out. Every major communication revolution washes away a previous generation's personas. Kennedy washed out Nixon, and now the TV politician has been supplanted by the TV reality star. Yup and that's the rot. Quote
Argus Posted January 29, 2018 Report Posted January 29, 2018 (edited) 57 minutes ago, OftenWrong said: Yup and that's the rot. So should we be surprised that younger people binge drink and sleep around without much in the way of ladylike or gentlemanly conduct? I think, frankly, the whole idea of 'lady' and 'gentleman' arises from a time when men and women who were not related didn't spend much time together except in very formal settings. Women didn't, as a rule, work, except as underlings, and the rule in the office then was to address everyone by their surname, not their Christian name as is the general case today. Edited January 29, 2018 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Omni Posted January 29, 2018 Report Posted January 29, 2018 11 minutes ago, Argus said: So should we be surprised that younger people binge drink and sleep around without much in the way of ladylike or gentlemanly conduct? I think, frankly, the whole idea of 'lady' and 'gentleman' arises from a time when men and women who were not related didn't spend much time together except in very formal settings. Women didn't, as a rule, work, except as underlings, and the rule in the office then was to address everyone by their surname, not their Christian name as is the general case today. Apparently you worked in an office peopled by fairly narrow minded personnel. Bad luck I guess. Quote
OftenWrong Posted January 29, 2018 Report Posted January 29, 2018 10 hours ago, Argus said: I think, frankly, the whole idea of 'lady' and 'gentleman' arises from a time when men and women who were not related didn't spend much time together except in very formal settings. They cannot exist outside of civilization. What we see is complete moral decay as well as intellectual decay, brought about in the guise of being "progressive". Quote
OftenWrong Posted January 29, 2018 Report Posted January 29, 2018 13 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: Every major communication revolution washes away a previous generation's personas. I think the internet plays an important role as a vehicle of transport for socially subversive ideas. McLuhan's vision of a wonderful information/ communication resource did not take into account the darker side of humanity, let alone geopolitical interests that might use it to reach down to the folk level, IE to catapult their propaganda. Quote
Boges Posted January 29, 2018 Report Posted January 29, 2018 The new leader Vic Fideli has gotten rid of much of Brown's team. The former President Rich Dykstra, who lost a nomination to a teenager and has allegation of his own regarding alcohol and women, was turfed. Quote
Argus Posted January 29, 2018 Report Posted January 29, 2018 27 minutes ago, Boges said: The new leader Vic Fideli has gotten rid of much of Brown's team. The former President Rich Dykstra, who lost a nomination to a teenager and has allegation of his own regarding alcohol and women, was turfed. Fidelli is an ambitious schemer. He's the last guy who should be left in charge. Anyone who would rehire Brown's former aids who stabbed him in the back is someone entirely lacking in moral principles. 1 Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Michael Hardner Posted January 29, 2018 Report Posted January 29, 2018 2 hours ago, OftenWrong said: McLuhan's vision of a wonderful information/ communication resource did not take into account the darker side of humanity, let alone geopolitical interests that might use it to reach down to the folk level, IE to catapult their propaganda. I don't think that you understand what he said. Pretty early on in Understanding Media he cautions against ascribing values ie moralizing about media. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
OftenWrong Posted January 29, 2018 Report Posted January 29, 2018 2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: I don't think that you understand what he said. Pretty early on in Understanding Media he cautions against ascribing values ie moralizing about media. I have not read it yet, will try to if I get a chance. But maybe you misunderstood me as well. I'm not so much moralizing about the internet as I am warning that it can be a powerful weapon to be used against us. Off topic anyway, if we continue let us do so in your McLuhan threads. Quote
PIK Posted January 29, 2018 Report Posted January 29, 2018 On 1/26/2018 at 11:23 PM, August1991 said: OftenWrong, I strongly disagree. Don't blame the media. This happened. These young women are telling the truth. Patrick Brown did these things. ====== As to Justin Trudeau, he has another way to present the "truth". What did brown do, beside trying to get a pice and when told no ,he drove her home. And yet trudeau comes out says he can't say anything because it is going to be before the courts. And brown did nothing illegal. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
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