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What is your reason to live ?


Altai

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4 hours ago, blackbird said:

The theory of evolution is one of the biggest frauds in the last 200 years.  If you want to know the why and how it is a false theory and what the implications of believing the theory of evolution or believing God are go to: 

Reformation Resources | Reformation International College

The theory of evolution is debunked by science.  Study the articles under the heading Scripture and Science.

God has a plan for you.  Life has a purpose.

Do you think God knew about the fraud?  What was his plan there?

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Religion is declining influence every day.  This means we are faced with a new horizon of challenges and opportunities.

The best thing about the evolution debate as it frames the decline nicely.

It's now up to our civic community to help define a common purpose, and up to each of us to find meaning individually.

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1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Religion is declining influence every day.  This means we are faced with a new horizon of challenges and opportunities.

The best thing about the evolution debate as it frames the decline nicely.

It's now up to our civic community to help define a common purpose, and up to each of us to find meaning individually.

Secular humanism or atheism is what you are talking about.  That is a defeatist ideology which leads to a lost eternity in hell.  Secular humanism is actually a religion in and of itself as many embrace like it their religion.  Secular humanism developed over the last 200 years.  Genuine science developed over the last 500 years and many of the greatest scientists that ever lived believed in God.  This all changed in the 1800s and especially when Darwin brought in the theory of evolution.  It is what much of society bases their lives on as if it is fact.  The reality of God's creation is all around them but they choose to ignore it or give it's existence some other explanation such as the theory of evolution.  This has been taught in schools for decades as if it is fact when it is totally unproven.  It has been shown to be false on a number of fronts.  One is the mathematical laws of probability.  Real science is proven my mathematics.  The law of probability demonstrates evolution is a virtual impossibility because evolution depends on random chance processes.   Well, mathematics shows that anything with odds of less than 10 to the 50th power has virtually no chance of occurring.  The theory of evolution is like someone playing a lottery every day for say a year and winning the jackpot every single time.  What are the chances of that happening?  That is the same category of possibility of the proper atoms and substances coming together to form life.  Virtually no chance by a random process, which is what the theory of evolution claims.  

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1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

Do you think God knew about the fraud?  What was his plan there?

You need to do some studying of the subject on the link.  Read some of the article on scripture and science.  Evolution is the biggest fraud perpetrated on mankind in the last 200 years.  Evolution is saying there is no God and the creation just came into being by itself by random chance processes.  This has been debunked as an impossibility.  One tool of this debunking is mathematics and the law of probability.  In science, the proof of something is done with mathematics.  The theory of evolution fails the test by the mathematical law of probability.

Of course God knew about the fraud.  God allow it to occur as part of his long term plans for the world and universe.  Man rebelled against God in the garden of Eden and the world has been a fallen, corrupt place ever since. He gave mankind free will to choose what to believe.  Belief or faith in his Son and his written revelation is the key to salvation from a fallen evil world.

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8 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You need to do some studying of the subject on the link.  Read some of the article on scripture and science.  Evolution is the biggest fraud perpetrated on mankind in the last 200 years.  Evolution is saying there is no God and the creation just came into being by itself by random chance processes.  This has been debunked as an impossibility.  One tool of this debunking is mathematics and the law of probability.  In science, the proof of something is done with mathematics.  The theory of evolution fails the test by the mathematical law of probability.

Of course God knew about the fraud.  God allow it to occur as part of his long term plans for the world and universe.  Man rebelled against God in the garden of Eden and the world has been a fallen, corrupt place ever since. He gave mankind free will to choose what to believe.  Belief or faith in his Son and his written revelation is the key to salvation from a fallen evil world.

Oh well, if God knew all about it I'm not going to worry about it then. 

I'm sure it will all come out in the wash.

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Just now, bcsapper said:

Oh well, if God knew all about it I'm not going to worry about it then. 

I'm sure it will all come out in the wash.

It's your choice whether to ignore God's teaching in the Bible on our fallen, sinful state that leads to damnation or seek salvation through faith in his Son and his written word.  Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God (the Bible).  All I do is point out the Biblical facts as I see them.  What people do with it is between them and God.

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1 hour ago, blackbird said:

1. Secular humanism or atheism is what you are talking about. 

2. That is a defeatist ideology which leads to a lost eternity in hell. 

3. Secular humanism is actually a religion in and of itself as many embrace like it their religion. 

 

1. I think whatever it is needs to be determined.  It doesn't have to be atheism, anyway.

2. I think that argument is dead in the water based on the precepts of this discussion.

3. I think religious people define humanism as such, but it doesn't have any position on deities, it is just a set of values that people ascribe to.

 

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4 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. I think whatever it is needs to be determined.  It doesn't have to be atheism, anyway.

2. I think that argument is dead in the water based on the precepts of this discussion.

3. I think religious people define humanism as such, but it doesn't have any position on deities, it is just a set of values that people ascribe to.

 

Secular humanism is really elevating man's reasoning to the level of God.  That makes it an idol or false god.

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46 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Secular humanism is really elevating man's reasoning to the level of God.  That makes it an idol or false god.

From Wikipedia: "... humanism refers to a perspective that affirms some notion of human freedom and progress. It views humanity as responsible for the promotion and development of individuals, espouses the equal and inherent dignity of all human beings, and emphasizes a concern for humans in relation to the world.[2]"

Nothing in there about elevating man's reasoning or making a false god.  It's not incompatible with religion to assume freedom or progress, or anything else here.  "Concern for humans" seems to be central to the Golden Rule.

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1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

From Wikipedia: "... humanism refers to a perspective that affirms some notion of human freedom and progress. It views humanity as responsible for the promotion and development of individuals, espouses the equal and inherent dignity of all human beings, and emphasizes a concern for humans in relation to the world.[2]"

Nothing in there about elevating man's reasoning or making a false god.  It's not incompatible with religion to assume freedom or progress, or anything else here.  "Concern for humans" seems to be central to the Golden Rule.

Quote     Secular humanism is a religion and a philosophy of life which views man as the supreme being of the universe. It rejects the existence of God and the supernatural. It sees moral values as relative and changing and varying from person to person. It is important for every Christian to know the subtle ways that secular humanism is manifesting itself all around us.   Unquote

Christianity vs Humanism Comparison Chart (aboundingjoy.com)

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4 hours ago, blackbird said:

It's your choice whether to ignore God's teaching in the Bible on our fallen, sinful state that leads to damnation or seek salvation through faith in his Son and his written word.  Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God (the Bible).  All I do is point out the Biblical facts as I see them.  What people do with it is between them and God.

There are no Biblical facts.  What you do is point out what you erroneously consider to be facts, due to your zealotry.

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28 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

What is abounding joy dot com?

 

I quoted Wikipedia, which I am sure you have heard of.  If you're quoting highly partisan sources, we're not going to go anywhere with this chat.

The fact is Wikipedia is a secular humanist source and we are discussing spiritual matters which cannot be answered by a secular humanist source.  Every source of information is biased one way or another.  That is just a reality of the world we live in.  One chooses whom they wish to believe on any particular subject.  Of course my view is "highly partisan" because it is directly opposed to the secular humanist point of view which you hold to.  You somehow think my view not legitimate because it disagrees with your view.  I can't do anything about that.  Forums are places where everyone has a different view.

Quote

Preaching the Faith of Secular Humanism

 

You may also be interested in reading the "Christianity/secular humanism Chart"

 

There has been a great deal of discussion in recent years regarding the taboos established by certain American courts against Christian activity on the part of teachers in public school classrooms. It is now considered unacceptable for Christian teachers to publicly appeal to our God or to discuss our faith to our captive audiences of schoolchildren.

 

Usually the rationale given for these taboos is the necessity for “neutrality.” The idea is that since teachers are agents of the state, they must maintain “strict neutrality” toward matters of faith.

 

On the surface this can seem like a logical course of action to protect students (who have no choice about being in your classroom) from undue pressure to adopt a faith-based system the same as the teacher’s faith-based system. But it is of critical and paramount importance that we realize the simple (and obvious) fact that Christian theism is not the only religion or belief system found in the United States. In particular, there is one other very powerful and widespread belief system in the United States called Secular Humanism.

 

The Faith of Secular Humanism

 

Secular Humanism is a faith-based system (i.e., a religion) whose adherents believe, among other things, that the material world is all that exists. Secular humanists believe that the highest being that exists is mankind. They do not believe in a supernatural God.

 

Since secular humanists do not believe in God, obviously they do not believe in a Creator. They hypothesize (in spite of strong scientific evidence to the contrary) that life simply sprang into existence, through a process of chance events. Higher life forms came into existence, they believe (again in spite of strong evidence to the contrary) through the process of biological evolution. They believe these things on the basis of faith, as many of the more honest scientists who are evolutionists have admitted. (You may wish to read some of these quotes.) Many scientists who are evolutionists have explained that to believe in a supernatural God is not “scientific” (in their minds). Therefore they hypothesize evolution to explain the existence of life. They hope to find evidence to support their hypothesis, but so far the vast predominance of evidence points to a Designer Creator. (You may wish to read some of it here.)

 

Since, to secular humanists, God does not exist, any appeal to His authority would be considered to be foolish. The only authority that secular humanists appeal to is the authority of men who are perceived to be highly educated, brilliant and wise.

 

Secular humanists believe the Bible to be simply a book of human traditions and ideas. To them, it has no authority. The only writings that have authority for them would be the writing of men and women whom they perceive to be especially brilliant and wise.

 

Secular humanists generally reject the concepts of moral absolutes and of “sin.” In a situation in which Christians might see a need for repentance and forgiveness and forsaking sinful behavior, secular humanists would more likely see a need for every person to decide for himself what is right or wrong, and to try to build personal self-esteem regardless of an individual’s behavior.

 

While a Christian’s goals are determined by God and are influenced by the reality of an eternity after this life has passed, the secular humanist goals are entirely focused on this present physical existence.  Unquote

 

Preaching the Faith of Secular Humanism (aboundingjoy.com)

You appear to be saying you are ok with any debate or discussion as long as it comes from a secular humanist point of view, but anything else you reject.  I think therein lies the problem.  You don't accept a Christian or Biblical world view to begin with.  Everything you believe must come through a secular humanist filter.

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1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

There are no Biblical facts.  What you do is point out what you erroneously consider to be facts, due to your zealotry.

Do you believe that there is a God who is the supreme being of the universe and created all things?

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One reason why many people reject the Bible and biblical truth and cling to things like the Theory of Evolution and Secular Humanism is because in their own mind this gives them the freedom to do what they want.  There are no moral absolutes.  One can live promiscuously or take drugs, booze, and do whatever they wish.  Sexual immorality is not an issue with them because they don't think they are accountable to the God who created them.  The problem for them with this thinking is rejecting God and his written revelation does not excuse them for what they are doing or believing.  The Bible makes it clear:  "27  And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:"   Hebrews 9:27 KJB

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1 hour ago, blackbird said:

The fact is Wikipedia is a secular humanist source and we are discussing spiritual matters which cannot be answered by a secular humanist source.  Every source of information is biased one way or another.  That is just a reality of the world we live in. 

Right.  I accept non-religious sources and you accept religious sources.  Looks like we're done here.

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On 11/7/2017 at 10:29 AM, Altai said:

What makes you want to live ? Why did you live until today ? To eat more or to have sex more or dreaming to drive a better car or dreaming to have a house near ocean ? What ? Okay you got a house near ocean and you waked up to mornings with peaceful wave sounds and fish carrion smells. What happens then ? You have reached to your goal and it starts to be normal in quite short time and losts all its attractiveness, does everything ends for you in the life ?

It's a short, sweet and simple answer. It's because I do not want to die. besides, I have bills to pay and a mortgage to pay off. I have to stick around. Sad, isn't it? ;)

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7 hours ago, taxme said:

It's a short, sweet and simple answer. It's because I do not want to die. besides, I have bills to pay and a mortgage to pay off. I have to stick around. Sad, isn't it? ;)

It's a good point. In that regard I am worth more dead than alive, now.

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20 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

It's a good point. In that regard I am worth more dead than alive, now.

technically, there is no difference between alive and dead

it's just energy becoming matter then turning back into energy

none of the cells in your body are actually alive, they are just machines

at the quantum level there is no difference between you and the universe around you, it's all the same stuff

the only thing that defines you, is your consciousness, which there is no scientific explanation for to date

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  • 1 month later...

At 61, single for 20 years with no children it’s a short list.

I live comfortably retired early at 55 and have clear title on my home. I suppose my reasons are my cat, my motorcycle (43 riding) and the Utah desert south.

The family has a winter home in Cocoa Beach, Florida and my sister has a winter place in El Centro, California on the desert. Covid has hurt as I can’t stand winter.

Thank goodness for baseball and football.

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