Is Donald Trump the Worst President since Andrew Johnson or James Buchanan?

[hot enough]

10 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

No sensible president of any country would allow their citizens to be threatened with nuclear annihilation and sit quietly doing nothing.

But you, and so many others, seem to lack the common sense that says that Korea feels exactly the same way, and with very good reason.

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http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-korean-war-the-unknown-war-the-coverup-of-us-war-crimes/23742

The Korean War: The “Unknown War”. The Coverup of US War Crimes

...

Besides rape, the Pentagon was firebombing North Korean cities more intensively than any of those it firebombed during World War II. Where it was typical for U.S. bombing to destroy between 40 and 50 percent of a city in that war, the destruction rate in North Korea was much higher: Shin Eui Ju, on the Chinese border, 95 percent destroyed; Pyongyang, 85 percent; and Hamhung, an industrial city, 80 percent.”By the end of 1951, there weren’t many bombing targets left in North Korea.”

 

[hot enough]

40 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I guess Kim didn't read The Art of the Deal.

You keep on revealing how you have come to be so brainwashed, Michael.

[Michael Hardner]

I didn't advocate for doing nothing.  You offer a false choice.

[OftenWrong]

3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I didn't advocate for doing nothing.  You offer a false choice.

Trump presented another option. He advocated heavy sanctions, not war. It was his move to make.

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, OftenWrong said:

Trump presented another option. He advocated heavy sanctions, not war. It was his move to make.

I already said: he kept threatening "if Kim does this.... then there will be hellfire"  Kim kept threatening and nothing came to pass.

 

Do you believe he listens to advice ?  If so, the diplomatic corps are really trying some new tactics.

If not, you have Trump making unilateral decisions to ratchet up the rhetoric.  It's stupid.  In my opinion of course.

[kactus]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

GW Bush did, however, keep the country together after 9/11.  The Middle East can't be solved by one administration, and althoughI don't agree with the methods I do believe that they made an effort to create a democracy in Iraq, true to American values.  Trump is faltering on minor issues and creating crises where there were none before, eg. engaging in a pissing war with NK, and giving comfort to White Supremecists

You cannot create a western style democracy in a country like Iraq that had not been exposed to any form of democracy and hope that democracy will flourish...

It took Europe 500 years For resurrection from dark ages. Miracles especially the 'american way' is not compatible with the value system in the middle east.

The irony is the american foreign policies in the middle east is the pursuit of a series of self interest adventures that time and time again has led to failure and yet they expect a miracle every time....

[OftenWrong]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

I already said: he kept threatening "if Kim does this.... then there will be hellfire"  Kim kept threatening and nothing came to pass.

 

Do you believe he listens to advice ?  If so, the diplomatic corps are really trying some new tactics.

If not, you have Trump making unilateral decisions to ratchet up the rhetoric.  It's stupid.  In my opinion of course.

I try not to "believe" anything unless there's some evidence. That's opinion. I expect most CEO's listen to advice. That doesn't mean they have to follow them. The good ones listen, then make up their own minds. If I were president, I'd pray that I not have to be president during a time when there's a Kim Jong Un with nuclear weapons. It's possibly the most serious emergency that we've faced in many decades, on the level of the US/ Soviet confrontation in Cuba. But if I were president today, I might ask if there's any point to trying diplomacy when NK makes it clear that's not on. I might be inclined to think, a stupid dog can't be reasoned with, it only understands aggression. But do you get just how dangerous that thinking is? Ever been involved in a situation you can't ignore, can't get out of?

[hot enough]

40 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

I try not to "believe" anything unless there's some evidence. That's opinion. I expect most CEO's listen to advice. That doesn't mean they have to follow them. The good ones listen, then make up their own minds. If I were president, I'd pray that I not have to be president during a time when there's a Kim Jong Un with nuclear weapons. It's possibly the most serious emergency that we've faced in many decades, on the level of the US/ Soviet confrontation in Cuba. But if I were president today, I might ask if there's any point to trying diplomacy when NK makes it clear that's not on. I might be inclined to think, a stupid dog can't be reasoned with, it only understands aggression. But do you get just how dangerous that thinking is? Ever been involved in a situation you can't ignore, can't get out of?

See what I mean, OftenWrong, you just keep on keeping on denying reality. 

[Hal 9000]

So, when Trump was backing down NK, the entire MSM were talking about how Trump better not challenge NK and how dangerous his rhetoric was.  Now that NK backs down..."oh it was no big deal", "that's just Kim being Kim", "It was the diplomats, not Trump" and "NK isn't so bad".  You people are just as disingenuous as CNN and MSNBC.

[Hal 9000]

I think Bill Clinton is the worst president of at least my lifetime.

[hot enough]

13 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

I think Bill Clinton is the worst president of at least my lifetime.

Bill and his blow job is worse than all the US war criminal/terrorist presidents, albeit, Bill is also one of that illustrious group. 

It always amazes me how folks who have spent lifetimes complaining about Hitlers, PolPots, ... so embrace US leaders that are equally evil.

[Hal 9000]

1 hour ago, hot enough said:

Bill and his blow job is worse than all the US war criminal/terrorist presidents, albeit, Bill is also one of that illustrious group. 

It always amazes me how folks who have spent lifetimes complaining about Hitlers, PolPots, ... so embrace US leaders that are equally evil.

What a stupid comment.  Do you really have to spiel the same crap post after post regardless of what is actually said?

[eyeball]

12 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

....but after threats by Trump Kim appears to have stood down, at least for now.

Cave, rinse and repeat...like every other President in the face of North Korea's bellicosity.

I'll be impressed when someone finally stands up to China and tells them to leash and curb NK. But of course if that happened someone might suggest other super powers do the same with their dogs.

Nothing will change so long as being a puppet master remains respectable.

Edited August 20, 2017 by eyeball

[OftenWrong]

15 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Cave, rinse and repeat...like every other President in the face of North Korea's bellicosity.

I'll be impressed when someone finally stands up to China and tells them to leash and curb NK. But of course if that happened someone might suggest other super powers do the same with their dogs.

Nothing will change so long as being a puppet master remains respectable.

It's a shame that there was no serious attempt to reunify Korea. It should have been implemented decades go, in the style of East/West German reunification. That move was precluded by the fall of the USSR of course. No such luck for Korea, used as a pawn between superpowers USA and China.

[Hal 9000]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Cave, rinse and repeat...like every other President in the face of North Korea's bellicosity.

I'll be impressed when someone finally stands up to China and tells them to leash and curb NK. But of course if that happened someone might suggest other super powers do the same with their dogs.

Nothing will change so long as being a puppet master remains respectable.

What makes you think that is not happening right now?

[eyeball]

A complete lack of any western politicians bragging about how tough they're being on China.

[GostHacked]

16 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

GW Bush did, however, keep the country together after 9/11.  The Middle East can't be solved by one administration, and althoughI don't agree with the methods I do believe that they made an effort to create a democracy in Iraq, true to American values.  Trump is faltering on minor issues and creating crises where there were none before, eg. engaging in a pissing war with NK, and giving comfort to White Supremecists

There was no problem for them to solve in the first place. But nothing brings people together like a huge tragedy.  Democracy in Iraq was never .. I repeat, Democracy in Iraq was NEVER the goal. I hope you were smart enough to not fall for it.

I love the fact that Trump is this bad.  This is the administration that the US deserves. Again, people warned, most ignored, and now there is even more problems.

[Moonlight Graham]

On 8/19/2017 at 11:54 AM, dialamah said:

He's only a few months in, though.   Lots of time for him to out-perform all those others.

Yes sir.

[Moonlight Graham]

On 8/19/2017 at 0:22 PM, OftenWrong said:

A lot of what we hear being SAID about him is rhetoric. It gets harder and harder to discern actual stupidity from the fake news being spread. If you were to actually list real things he's done or said that are truly "offensive", not just the opinions and exaggerations of what other people think, you'd come up pretty short. Most people don't have time to filter through the noise, which has now become practically impossible.

Ironically we live in this wonderful age of information, and most of the time we use it to confuse each other and tell lies.

Never seen the news media gang up on someone like they have Trump, even a year before the election.  Including W. Bush, which is amazing.  Trump has said a lot of dumb and horrible things but the media has spun them out of control or spun other things to seem much worse than they are.  For people who don't pay attention closely it becomes propaganda.  I guess that's what happens when you have a loudmouth idiot who has bucked the traditional Washington party system more than any POTUS I can remember.

Edited August 21, 2017 by Moonlight Graham

[Michael Hardner]

On 8/20/2017 at 0:22 AM, Hal 9000 said:

I think Bill Clinton is the worst president of at least my lifetime.

Odd choice.

Pros:

Balanced budget.

Worked with Republicans on the Contract with America

Best economy in years

Helped with Israel-Palestinian peace accord

Cons:

(For liberals) Right-wing fiscal agenda

Sexual harasser who brought shame to the office and lied under oath

[Michael Hardner]

20 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Never seen the news media gang up on someone like they have Trump, even a year before the election.  Including W. Bush, which is amazing.  Trump has said a lot of dumb and horrible things but the media has spun them out of control or spun other things to such much worse than they have.  For people who don't pay attention closely it becomes propaganda.  I guess that's what happens when you have a loudmouth idiot who has bucked the traditional Washington party system more than any POTUS I can remember.

Yes, this is correct.  Nothing has actually happened, which does reflect poorly on him, but the media would paint his many misstatements and lies as actions.  The media makes money sowing controversy and until there's no market for that, it will continue.

[Wilber]

The way he lied, bullied and insulted his way through the campaign and how he continues to keep fighting that campaign almost a year later could have something to do with it.

[Hal 9000]

6 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Odd choice.

Pros:

Balanced budget.

Worked with Republicans on the Contract with America

Best economy in years

Helped with Israel-Palestinian peace accord

Cons:

(For liberals) Right-wing fiscal agenda

Sexual harasser who brought shame to the office and lied under oath

The economy was a direct influence of the internet, I could've ran a good economy in the late 90's

I couldn't give a rats ass where he shoved his stogie.

 

Cons;

Relaxed lending criteria that eventually led to the housing crisis (we blame Bush, but it was Clinton)

N.Korea nuclear deal

Attacking various countries

3 Strikes rule

Pros:  He was one cool cat when he played his sax.

 

[Michael Hardner]

The sax was cool.

[Ash74]

Trump is very much in over his head much like our current PM but he does not have the staff or the ability to get the staff that could help him. The Media is very much playing games and it is defiantly doing its very best to destroy him. Congress and the Senate are too busy fighting each other and nothing is getting done. It is a disaster that can only compare to Lincoln being elected. Now Trump is by no means a Lincoln and I have a hard time believing they are the same species. Now certain individuals on this forum believe the world would have been better off if Nazi Germany or the U.S.S.R had taken over the world but all we can do is hope this settles down before it gets really bad