The Battle of Charlottesville

[betsy]

16 minutes ago, LonJowett said:

You should ask yourself why that difference matters to you.

 

 

The difference  with first degree murder and second degree murder?  You ask that? 

 

You don't know the full implication why the difference matters?  

Why does it matter to the law if there's no significant difference, doh? 

 

Now, there's a trio - Micheal, Jacee and you!

Edited August 15, 2017 by betsy

[jacee]

47 minutes ago, drummindiver said:

Lol. Peaceful protesters. You are joking, right? This is a Poe  post...HAS to be.

At least try to get your facts straight:

This happened the day after the Nazi rally. The Nazis permit had already been revoked.

 This was a peaceful VICTORY celebration by the Anti-fascists. 

 

[drummindiver]

14 minutes ago, LonJowett said:

There's nothing ad-hoc about giving you the chance to show you're not a lying Nazi apologist. It's not even ad-hom. But I interpret your bitter outburst and unwillingness to show evidence as a concession that  you were lying in order to defend  the Nazis. So those people who would call you those names might have more of an excuse to make ad-hom attacks now.

Lol.....sorry if your only salient argument is I hit c instead of m.

No bitterness. Just no time for people who think freedom of speech is fascism. Or Nazism. 

 

[Boges]

Were the Nice, France terrorist attacks first or second degree murder? 

I would imagine trying to ram a crowd with a car indicates a motivation to kill people. 

Edited August 15, 2017 by Boges

[jacee]

33 minutes ago, drummindiver said:

Except for people opposing your views who should be " stomped out". 

Yeah, that's peace  love and granola.

Yes, racial hatred ideologies must be stomped out.

That takes political and legal action.

Street action is necessary first to raise awareness.

Edited August 15, 2017 by jacee

[drummindiver]

7 minutes ago, jacee said:

At least try to get your facts straight:

This happened the day after the Nazi rally. The Nazis permit had already been revoked.

 This was a peaceful VICTORY celebration by the Anti-fascists. 

 

Lol. Where on this earth did you get that drivel from?

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/12/virginia-unite-the-right-rally-protest-violence

[Michael Hardner]

3 minutes ago, Boges said:

Were the Nice, France terrorist attacks first or second degree murder? 

It's okay.  Betsy is there to make sure racist killers are not unjustly accused.

Black people shoot for doing nothing, not so much.

[LonJowett]

10 minutes ago, betsy said:

 

 

The difference  with first degree murder and second degree murder?  You ask that? 

 

Now, there's a trio - Micheal, Jacee and you!

My reaction when a Nazi drives a car into a bunch of defenceless people is not to take the position of his defence lawyer and try to reduce his charges. I am wondering why you would do that for this particular Nazi. Can you explain or is that too much to ask?

[drummindiver]

2 minutes ago, jacee said:

Yes, racial hatred ideologies must be stomped out.

That takes political and legal action.

Street action is necessary first to raise awareness.

Only thing I'm advocating is free speech. You're advocating violence and anarchy.  We all saw what "street action" and black bloc tactics entail, haven't we.

[LonJowett]

40 minutes ago, drummindiver said:

Lol.....sorry if your only salient argument is I hit c instead of m.

No bitterness. Just no time for people who think freedom of speech is fascism. Or Nazism. 

 

My salient argument is as follows:

You said I must be joking that the people who were run down were not behaving violently.

I said you could redeem yourself from those who would call you a lying Nazi apologist by showing evidence you weren't lying and that they were behaving violently.

You whined about ad hoc arguments and refused to defend your argument.

Do you now concede there is no evidence the people in the crowd who were run down were violent protesters? Do you now admit they were only exercising their right to freedom of speech, which you defend?

 

Edited August 15, 2017 by LonJowett

[Argus]

13 hours ago, kimmy said:

It sounds like you're actually arguing that this was premeditated.  If he got beat up, went back to get his car, and ran over a bunch of people to get "revenge", he should definitely be charged with 1st degree murder, not 2nd.

I'm okay with that.

13 hours ago, kimmy said:

Here's a picture of James Field (center), the driver of the car that struck the crowd, taken earlier that day. As you can see, he and his friends had riot shields decorated with white power symbols, some of them have ballistic eyewear and helmets, and metal flag-poles... you can't tell me these people weren't ready for a fight.

 -k

I said as much earlier. They knew the reception they'd be getting. Note that the other side was similarly equipped.

I haven't argued these people are innocent babes, just that all the condemnation has been on them while the far left have been completely exempted.

[Argus]

12 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Yes.  Say that the movements must be stopped and destroyed.  It's your right.

What about physically trying to do so? I think Communists and Marxists - who are a prominent part of the NDP, btw, are every bit as dangerous as Nazis. Their movements are actually responsible for more slaughtered people and more misery than the Nazis. There were a lot of Communist flags and signs flying at the anti nazi demo but nobody seems to care about them.

[Argus]

12 hours ago, Chrissy1979 said:

Given how often the video of the car driving over those peaceful antiracist protesters was broadcast, I wonder how you could have missed it. Tunnel vision perhaps.

I am not talking about that loser idiot who ran over people with his car. I'm talking about the mob violence. I would have thought that was fairly obvious.

[WestCoastRunner]

I can't state my abhorrence to this event better than these guys:

Jimmy Fallon 

Stephen Colbert 

Seth Meyers 

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/entertainment/late-night-trump-charlottesville-1.4247647

[Argus]

7 hours ago, taxme said:

Why is it that when a white nationalist group has a rally they are always called Nazi's, 

Well... maybe the swastikas they held have something to do with it? 

Just a guess, mind.

[Argus]

2 hours ago, Boges said:

Trump's base right now is super racist, and it's all he has.

This is nonsense. Trump still enjoys widespread support among the American right and among working class Americans.  The guy got 63 million votes. Dismissing them all as super racists is simply flat out wrong.

[Boges]

3 minutes ago, Argus said:

This is nonsense. Trump still enjoys widespread support among the American right and among working class Americans.  The guy got 63 million votes. Dismissing them all as super racists is simply flat out wrong.

Perhaps prior the election. But his track record in the last 6 months has to have eroded much of that white working class demographics that got him elected. 

There are also people that will vote for the Red Team no matter what. 

Edited August 15, 2017 by Boges

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, Argus said:

Their movements are actually responsible for more slaughtered people and more misery than the Nazis. There were a lot of Communist flags and signs flying at the anti nazi demo but nobody seems to care about them.

Their core ideas were adapted into Western society because they were essentially economic.  The alt right ideas are all discredited racial purity nonsense that doesn't make a viable society.

[Argus]

 

1 hour ago, jacee said:

Racial hatred is unacceptable.

And what do you propose to do about it? I mean, given racial hatred is a worldwide thing and has been for about fifty thousand odd years.

1 hour ago, jacee said:

Nazis like you must be stomped out.

Are you advocating violence?

 

[WestCoastRunner]

Samantha Bee interviewed  former neo-nazi who's group fights Extremism. 

Obama had approved 400,000 funding for this group to fight violent extremism which trump's administration had quickly pulled. 

"Now, the group is crowdfunding to "fight hate and racism." It has raised nearly $37,000 of its $400,000 goal. (You can donate right here.)

"White people created this problem, and it's our job to fix it," Christian Picciolini, co-founder of the group, told Samantha Bee. The full segment will air in September. 

The show released the clip Monday, days after a white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, resulted in the death of three people, including Heather Heyer, who was killed when a car rammed into a crowd of people protesting the neo-Nazis, KKK members, and other white supremacists who had gathered in the city. 

“If they had given us the funding right away within a month or two of being awarded, we would have been up and running before Charlottesville," Tony McAleer, another Life After Hate co-founder, told The Hill. "Whether or not we would have made a difference, it’s impossible to know.""

http://mashable.com/2017/08/15/samantha-bee-interviews-former-neo-nazi-whose-group-fights-extremism-then-had-funds-cut-by-trump.amp

[eyeball]

13 minutes ago, Argus said:

I haven't argued these people are innocent babes, just that all the condemnation has been on them while the far left have been completely exempted.

That's because the left are the good guys.  

[betsy]

32 minutes ago, LonJowett said:

My reaction when a Nazi drives a car into a bunch of defenceless people is not to take the position of his defence lawyer and try to reduce his charges. I am wondering why you would do that for this particular Nazi. Can you explain or is that too much to ask?

It's not me, Lon.  That's what he's been charged with: second-degree murder.

[LonJowett]

1 minute ago, betsy said:

It's not me, Lon.  That's what he's been charged with: second-degree murder.

But why do you feel it's important to make that distinction?

[betsy]

Actually, there is a possibility that there was premeditation:  the anti-Trumps  and planned ahead and used this protest to cause violence -  so they can dump the blame on Trump.   

Edited August 15, 2017 by betsy

[Michael Hardner]

3 minutes ago, betsy said:

It's not me, Lon.  That's what he's been charged with: second-degree murder.

Yes, you keep telling us that.  I guess he's an ok guy then, or at least on the same level as people protesting fascists?