Urban vs. Rural Culture and the US Election

[Michael Hardner]

Not sure if this has been shared here or not, but on my facebook feed this generated the most thoughtful comments and admissions of illumination.  If you don't learn anything you may at least enjoy the writing.

 

http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about/

Edited November 13, 2016 by Charles Anthony
changed "City" to "Rural" in title

[The_Squid]

Do you mean rural vs urban/city?

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, The_Squid said:

Do you mean rural vs urban/city?

Augh.  Thread title is wrong.  I don't seem to be able to edit that.  Charles ?

[DogOnPorch]

It's a red world outside the cities.

[OftenWrong]

It's like yer country mouse vs. town mouse. Pretty much explains the need for the electoral college too, for those who don't understand why it's necessary.

[Smallc]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Augh.  Thread title is wrong.  I don't seem to be able to edit that.  Charles ?

BURN IT TO THE GROUND!!!!!

 

Charles? 

 

Okay, I'll stop now.

Edited November 13, 2016 by Smallc

[dialamah]

Yeah, good article.   I guess if the rural folk are going to be ignored by the political regime, it may as well be by someone the "elites" hate and fear, eh?   

I was raised 'rural' with much of the culture as that article portrays, including the contempt of city people, and I suspect at least one of my brothers is a Trump supporter.  I was raised in a financially stressed home; we kids had no luxuries and had lots of chores. I was taught that you didn't rely on others, charity was equal to shame, and that self-respect meant you worked for what you had - men outside the home, women inside the home, with maybe a little job somewhere to help out.   Although our family did not go to church, the values we were raised with were very similar to the values listed in the article.   

But, I must have been born 'liberal/elite'; I left as soon as I could because I really disliked the judgemental and self-righteous attitude that was prevalent.  I hated the cruel gossip, the lack of empathy or sympathy for those who were different; the polite to your face, shred you behind your back hypocrisy of that world.   People had no curiosity about the world outside their life; it was 'different', therefore it was wrong.   

 If you looked a little differently, or behaved a little differently you had no social acceptance.   If you supported those who were different, you joined them in their pariah state.    There's much said about how rural communities support each other, help their neighbors when they're down, bringing food during crisis etc.  Can't say it doesn't happen somewhere, sometimes, but it certainly wasn't standard behavior in my rural upbringing.    What I did see is that a woman with several small children, living in a shack with no running water allowed her home to become extremely dirty.  The community knew she was there, and they offered no support or help.  But when she left, the landlord provided tours around her home so people could shake their heads in disgust and disbelief.   I saw that the black family who moved in down the road was talked about a lot, as some sort of novelty item.   When a family lost their eldest son, people turned away because that family wasn't 'acceptable' for some reason I didn't understand; I think they were considered white trash, because the father only worked part of the year or something.    

It's not that I don't have empathy for the difficulties faced by people in rural America; poverty and lack of options do create hopelessness and I agree that they have a legitimate problem that needs to be addressed.  

Still, dismissing other people as 'elites' and maintaining your own moral superiority because you attend church, lacking any real curiosity about anything different, engaging in hypocritical moralizing and then electing a pig like Donald Trump to shove it up other peoples' ass?    Instead of sulking, why didn't they do something - perhaps peaceful protests in cities, vigils in front of their representatives' homes?  How about organizing to insist on change, rather than stewing about how unfair it all is?   

If the elite urban liberals sit in their ivory towers, dismissing the concerns of their conservative rural countryman, no less do the rural conservatives sit in their own ivory tower, dismissing the liberals as contemptible and morally bankrupt.   

 

 

 

 

[Michael Hardner]

Hi dialamah

With due respect - I am asking about your experience here: you chose to leave rather than organizing to insist on change.  This tells me that you wanted to move to a new culture.  Did you move to a different country ?  If so, you would now be in a position where you don't have to share power with your former culture.

[Moonlight Graham]

I think it's good to have an entire thread devoted to this topic, but cybercoma did post this article not long ago in another OP (the article it was re-posted and renamed after the election):  http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/26163-strangers-in-their-own-land/?page=1

[bush_cheney2004]

57 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Still, dismissing other people as 'elites' and maintaining your own moral superiority because you attend church, lacking any real curiosity about anything different, engaging in hypocritical moralizing and then electing a pig like Donald Trump to shove it up other peoples' ass?    Instead of sulking, why didn't they do something - perhaps peaceful protests in cities, vigils in front of their representatives' homes?  How about organizing to insist on change, rather than stewing about how unfair it all is? 
 

 

Because they had something far more powerful....the right to vote.

[dialamah]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Hi dialamah

With due respect - I am asking about your experience here: you chose to leave rather than organizing to insist on change.  This tells me that you wanted to move to a new culture.  Did you move to a different country ?  If so, you would now be in a position where you don't have to share power with your former culture.

I misspoke somewhat; conservatives have tried to organize around social issues such as abortion and gay rights.  According to this article and others I've read, the resentment and anger is also tied to lack of economic health.  In that arena, I do not see them organizing or trying to better their situation.  On the other hand, perhaps I'm merely unaware of such efforts.   

As for me, I've moved between urban and rural all my life.  I'm currently living in a city but fully expect to be moving back to rural or at least semi-rural in a few years, in an area that is mainly conservative.   My lifestyle won't change much, although I'll likely be against the flow should issues regarding gay rights, abortion provision and other 'elite' topics come up.

Until I came to this forum about a year and a half ago, I was essentially apolitical; I didn't associate the attitudes I was raised with with any particular ideological belief.   It was just 'small town' stuff vs. 'big city' stuff.   I've voted for conservative and liberal candidates federally and provincially.  Prior to the last election, I came to this forum because I felt uninformed and wanted to understand ideologies better.   What I found was that the things I most disliked about living in rural BC are expressed by the self-identified conservative posters.   It was also on this forum that I discovered that I'm a lefty, and subject to the scorn conservatives like to heap upon those who do not follow their moral or economic belief system.    Conservatives aren't bad people; at least two of my brothers would vote conservative and they're really nice guys; my dad too.  Unfortunately, the religious base of conservatism tends to make people feel they don't have to look any farther for problem solving than some bible-based parable or command.   Even conservative who do not attend church or follow any particular religion will do that.

I am not sure what you mean by 'share power' with my former culture.   It's not a matter of sharing power; it's a matter of living my own life as I want to and allowing others to do the same (with some qualifications related to pedophilia, animal cruelty, practicing racism, raping women, etc).  In my experience, liberal-minded people are better than conservative-minded people at minding their own damn business.  As an example, although I personally do not think abortion is the right answer to an unwanted pregnancy, I am not going to force that belief on a woman who feels differently by limiting access to abortion through legislature, nor am I going to shame her on it by calling her names as she walks into a clinic.  Conservatives will and do - thus I will fight conservatives on that.   Not because I support abortion per se, but because I support freedom of choice.   Same with gay marriage, wearing the niqab, wearing a turban, enjoying a nude beach.   

Don't know if that answers your question or not, but it's the best way I can explain it.   I still consider myself a free-spirit and thinker and unaligned with any particular ideology; it's a certain subgroup of this forum who have scornfully labelled me 'lefty' without knowing anything about me other than my position on a couple of issues.   I do believe there are more great people in the world than bad ones, that all politicians lie and break promises, less due to moral failings but to the nature of politics itself.   I also think that whatever kind of leader either Trudeau or Trump turns out to be, the world will go on.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

[WestCoastRunner]

21 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

It's like yer country mouse vs. town mouse. Pretty much explains the need for the electoral college too, for those who don't understand why it's necessary.

Why is it necessary? 

[OftenWrong]

6 hours ago, WestCoastRunner said:

Why is it necessary? 

In order to distribute the power of the vote more fairly between urban vs. rural culture, whose needs are very different from each other but where both are needed to make a nation work.

[Bryan]

14 hours ago, dialamah said:

How about organizing to insist on change, rather than stewing about how unfair it all is?

They did. That's why Hillary lost.

[BC_chick]

On 11/12/2016 at 4:48 PM, OftenWrong said:

It's like yer country mouse vs. town mouse. Pretty much explains the need for the electoral college too, for those who don't understand why it's necessary.

Regional representation makes sense for governing bodies, not one person.  There is absolutely no justification for it.  

[OftenWrong]

16 hours ago, BC_chick said:

Regional representation makes sense for governing bodies, not one person.  There is absolutely no justification for it.  

Vast numbers of people in rural communities disagree with you.

[Moonlight Graham]

20 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

In order to distribute the power of the vote more fairly between urban vs. rural culture, whose needs are very different from each other but where both are needed to make a nation work.

A couple of states have an electoral college system where the winner in each electoral constituency gets 1 electoral college vote, and the overall winner of the state gets 2 extra electoral college votes.

[WestCoastRunner]

On 2016-11-13 at 9:44 PM, OftenWrong said:

In order to distribute the power of the vote more fairly between urban vs. rural culture, whose needs are very different from each other but where both are needed to make a nation work.

Even though more people live in the cities? Doesn't make sense to me. 

 

[DogOnPorch]

16 minutes ago, WestCoastRunner said:

Even though more people live in the cities? Doesn't make sense to me. 

 

 

Food magically appears in the supermarket.

[WestCoastRunner]

1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Food magically appears in the supermarket.

Right. So Trump should have been elected because of food supplies to the grocery store. Even though his environmental policies will affect food production. I love your logic. 

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, WestCoastRunner said:

Right. So Trump should have been elected because of food supplies to the grocery store. Even though his environmental policies will affect food production. I love your logic. 

 

Your contempt for the rural lifestyle is apparent.

[WestCoastRunner]

1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Your contempt for the rural lifestyle is apparent.

Why would you say I have contempt!  I come from a family of farmers. Have raised my children in the country. 

[DogOnPorch]

12 minutes ago, WestCoastRunner said:

Why would you say I have contempt!  I come from a family of farmers. Have raised my children in the country. 

Yet you wish to hand all power to urban dwellers.

[DogOnPorch]

Or am I misunderstanding you?

[WestCoastRunner]

1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said:

Yet you wish to hand all power to urban dwellers.

Urban dwellers are not unaware of food productivity  I am now an urban dweller but I haven't forgotten my roots and I would expect that many urban dwellers are descendants of farmers and don't forget where they came from.