Is increasing immigration by 50% to 450k too high?

[Smallc]

It's always been the driver of growth in North America.

 

Japan (I forgot to include this) has had growth almost completely driven by government debt.  They are the most indebted country on the planet.

Edited November 10, 2016 by Smallc

[TimG]

2 minutes ago, Smallc said:

Japan (I forgot to include this) has had growth almost completely driven by government debt.  They are the most indebted country on the planet.

At this point in time the vast majority of Japanese government debt is held by the BOJ. The BOJ is not going to dump the bonds and does have to power to simply make the vanish should they decide that it makes sense. So the paper debt levels of the Japanese government are a lot less of a concern than the much lower debt levels of Canadian governments because Canadian debt is held by private interests (many of them foreign).

The BOJ was only able to buy up all of those bonds because it is fighting deflation - deflation that is caused, in part, by a shrinking population.

IOW, you cannot dismiss Japan's example of how to grow without a population increase.

[Bonam]

21 minutes ago, Smallc said:

It's always been the driver of growth in North America.

No. It's coincided with growth in North America. The primary driver of economic growth in North America over the past ~150 years has been productivity growth (that is, technological innovation). 

Edited November 10, 2016 by Bonam

[Smallc]

55 minutes ago, Bonam said:

No. It's coincided with growth in North America. The primary driver of economic growth in North America over the past ~150 years has been productivity growth (that is, technological innovation). 

 

More pretty hard to separate that from continuous population growth.

[carepov]

On 11/10/2016 at 1:17 PM, Bonam said:

Looks pretty comparable to me, with Japan doing slightly better much of the time.

Canada did it with one of the highest (per capita) rates of immigration of any country in the world and Japan with one of the lowest. Immigration and population growth is not necessary for economic growth. 

Look again, the two graphs are on different and offset scales.  Canada (right-hand scale) has been growing faster.  Canadians' standard of living is also growing faster.

 

[Topaz]

Perhaps the world should try harder to keep peace in the world, especially the Middle-East, so people can stay in their own country. The world is a mess thanks to NATO, and bad US presidents who wanted revenge and/or power!

[DogOnPorch]

Islam has zero interest 'staying in its own country'.

[bush_cheney2004]

1 hour ago, Topaz said:

Perhaps the world should try harder to keep peace in the world, especially the Middle-East, so people can stay in their own country. The world is a mess thanks to NATO, and bad US presidents who wanted revenge and/or power!

 

No way...Canada insists on bombing people to protect their human rights (Responsibility to Protect).  

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

Islam has zero interest 'staying in its own country'.

Islam is not a nation.

[DogOnPorch]

4 hours ago, eyeball said:

Islam is not a nation.

https://www.noi.org/

[DogOnPorch]

6 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

No way...Canada insists on bombing people to protect their human rights (Responsibility to Protect).  

 

We used to be even more ruthless than you guys re: the Bombs Away. A Halifax carries a lot of bombs...into the inky darkness past the cherry flares they go.

[eyeball]

52 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

https://www.noi.org/

Louis Farrakhan is not Islam.

[DogOnPorch]

No True Scotsman

[taxme]

On 11/10/2016 at 9:35 AM, Smallc said:

Japan has not had economic growth for a long time.  Why?  No population growth is a pretty good bet..

Canada has approx. 2 million Canadians looking for work. We bring in hundreds of thousands of new immigrants every year because we are told that immigration is good for Canada. If immigration is so great why do we have so many Canadians unemployed? Maybe it is because we are bringing in to many new immigrants and refugees, uhmm? 

We have a problem with our fake politicians and the fake media. They keep trying to convince us all that immigration is greatest thing since slice bread. And it appears to be working because of examples that I see here. There appears to be more pro-immigrants and refugees, and not less, not to forget that more immigration means more assaults on our medical and social services, infrastructures, and of course everybody's favorite the environment which most don't seem to realize that more immigration means more damage will be done to the environment. Our phony politicians just can't seem to figure that one out. Or maybe it is because our politically correct politicians already know that the environment movement has more to do with politics rather than with the environment. But hey, I guess emotionalism is what rules in Canada. Common sense and logic does not.  

[Smallc]

2 minutes ago, taxme said:

Canada has approx. 2 million Canadians looking for work.

Stagnating the economy won't do anything for them.

[taxme]

9 hours ago, Topaz said:

Perhaps the world should try harder to keep peace in the world, especially the Middle-East, so people can stay in their own country. The world is a mess thanks to NATO, and bad US presidents who wanted revenge and/or power!

You got that one right. The Warsaw Pact is history, so why do we keep NATO around? Lot's of tax dollars being blown on an organization that does nothing but appear to want to get a war going somewhere on planet messed up. The globalist elite banksters keep NATO, the  EU, and the UN around because they work for, and are controlled by them, and are being used to try and set up a new world order where they and their corporations shall run and rule the roost forever. Hopefully, Trump will put an end to their plans forever. 

[taxme]

 

 

8 minutes ago, Smallc said:

Stagnating the economy won't do anything for them.

So, what has all this immigration done for the economy? It would appear as though it has done absolutely nothing. Bringing in hundreds of thousands of new immigrants and refugees every year only adds to the problem of unemployment, a big problem most people cannot seem to figure out. But as I already said. If our politically correct politicians were to use some common sense and logic, Canada would be in better shape than it is today. But our politicians seem to just want to flood Canada with the world, no matter what the consequences. It is time for Canada to build that wall, and let us try to fix our problems first, not continue to add to them. Works for me.   

[Smallc]

Well, since Canada wouldn't exist without immigration, I don't think your opinion quite follows through with reality.

[Bonam]

 

16 hours ago, carepov said:

Look again, the two graphs are on different and offset scales.  Canada (right-hand scale) has been growing faster.  Canadians' standard of living is also growing faster.

 

What the graph clearly tells me is that Japan's model works in delivering economic growth without population growth. If there is a modest difference in growth rate as compared to Canada, a modestly lower growth rate is acceptable, and something all of the world is tending towards. The point is that the hysterical yammering we hear from some that if we decrease immigration the economy will collapse has no basis in fact. It's nothing more than a talking point repeated so often that people have come to believe it, but which has no real evidence behind it. 

Edited November 13, 2016 by Bonam

[Smallc]

Well, if you'd rather use their model - growth through massive government debt (230% of GDP) all the power to you, I guess?

[ironstone]

Because it's the Liberals that are talking about this plan,it seems to me that the real reason behind it is not to spur economic growth,but to inflate the number of people that are highly likely to vote Liberal.

[Smallc]

Because the Conservatives didn't increase immigration.

[Army Guy]

On ‎11‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 8:23 PM, Smallc said:

Well, since Canada wouldn't exist without immigration, I don't think your opinion quite follows through with reality.

How do you explain this comment....Because we have always done it......well lets just keep jumping off that bridge despite of the many other options available......would Japan cease to exist without immigration.....

On ‎11‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 10:00 PM, Smallc said:

Well, if you'd rather use their model - growth through massive government debt (230% of GDP) all the power to you, I guess?

We have followed your way of doing things for a long time now has it worked.....how much debt do we have,and how much more are we planning to add..... and yet we are going to add hundreds of bils more in order to spend our way out of debt.....which has done what exactly so far.... 

All this coming from the Liberals that say.....we can not spend more on the military, because we can not afford it.....186 bil put away for infra structure alone....not to mention the 30 plus already spent to boost the economy.....with talk of spending more.....because we all spend our way out of debt.....it works all the time.....

[Smallc]

You're not making any sense, so I'm just going to leave that on the table as it is.

[Army Guy]

That's your problem Smallc you make a lot of comments.....but you can not explain them.....Just last month when we were talking about Military budgets you are quoted as saying there is NO funding , we could not afford it.....NO additional funding for that shit....and yet now your saying run it up, spend what ever we need because that is what the liberals plan .....IF that was the case why have we not invested in our military......or anything else we have huge deficits in...like infra structure....health care ,CPP, education.....