Wynne says Hydro rates an "Urgent" Issue

[Rue]

28 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/why-does-electricity-cost-so-much-in-ontario/article33453270/

Good background knowledge in this article.  It doesn't seem, from what I read, that Green energy is a major contributor.

Wynne isn't at fault, but the Liberals are.  The new approach to lowering rates seems to be another shell game, and I doubt it will save her politically.

Your logic eludes moi. How is Wynne not at fault. How would Liberals be at fault, but she their leader not be at fault? Does she have an immunity idol?

[?Impact]

29 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Good background knowledge in this article.

It doesn't appear that way to me. No mention of how the costs break down, no mention of all the subsides and barely scratches the surface of debt due to nuclear. I would say it was a very amateur piece of work. I don't know who this Tom Cardoso guy is, saw him for the first time on CTV yesterday.

[Rue]

You want energy costs lowered? Burn Wynne at the stakes. She has such a tough hide it'll take years to burn through her and in the meantime it will harm many a heart.

As for Bald Boy, aka Georgie Smitherman, the  pride of Ontario now wants to be Alderperson and then become Mayor of Toronto.

Someone wants to recycle methane gas.

[Michael Hardner]

Rue - it seems that the situation was set up by McGuinty.

[Boges]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/why-does-electricity-cost-so-much-in-ontario/article33453270/

Good background knowledge in this article.  It doesn't seem, from what I read, that Green energy is a major contributor.

The long term contracts to generate Green Energy certainly contribute to the problem. FIT programs guarantee that Green Energy producers get paid way more than market rate for electricity. 

The province's capacity is way higher than demand so generating the electricity isn't the issue, It's the Global Adjustment that causes issues. 

[?Impact]

8 minutes ago, Boges said:

The long term contracts to generate Green Energy certainly contribute to the problem. FIT programs guarantee that Green Energy producers get paid way more than market rate for electricity.

Yes, the Global Adjustment is a large factor in electricity pricing. Wind and solar make up about 10% of the Global Adjustment. The bulk of the Global Adjustment goes to OPG and to non-OPG generators. The non-OPG ones include both natural gas and nuclear (ie. Bruce).

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, Boges said:

The long term contracts to generate Green Energy certainly contribute to the problem.  

Definitely.  I read the article again and it doesn't address which % are attributable to GE and which are attributable elsewhere.

[Boges]

2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Definitely.  I read the article again and it doesn't address which % are attributable to GE and which are attributable elsewhere.

You don't need FIT programs to generate Electricity with Natural Gas. 

Now with Natural Gas you have that $1.1 boondoggle of cancelling plants and moving them to less populated areas. Which probably leads to higher transmission costs. 

[Topaz]

To answer  a remark someone made on here about the wind turbines the link tells how the turbines are drying out the land.                                                      https://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/04/30/supreme-irony-wind-farms-can-cause-atmosphereic-warming-finds-a-new-study/      

[Rue]

On ‎2017‎-‎03‎-‎03 at 10:29 AM, Michael Hardner said:

Rue - it seems that the situation was set up by McGuinty.

You wanna play? Why McGuinty, why not all the Premiers before him as well?

For you to say Wynne is not culpable for adding to the current mess and making it worse and to give her blanket immunity and simply blame it on McGunity is a joke and you know why.

http://www.macleans.ca/news/it-was-my-mistake-wynne-says-of-high-electricity-bills/

http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/the-five-sins-behind-kathleen-wynnes-power-failure/

Nuff said on the this incompetent, dishonest, insincere, nasty, shallow, two faced .....

Edited March 4, 2017 by Rue

[Michael Hardner]

No, I think she's culpable for being generally incapable.  It's not surprising she is unable to deal with this, and is trying to kick it down the road.

[capricorn]

1 hour ago, Rue said:

Nuff said on the this incompetent, dishonest, insincere, nasty, shallow, two faced .....

A couple of days ago, in response to the news of a 17% reduction in hydro fees, the Ottawa Sun's cover page showed Wynne with the caption "Trust me".

Edited March 4, 2017 by capricorn
clarification

[Rue]

On ‎2017‎-‎03‎-‎04 at 1:47 PM, Michael Hardner said:

No, I think she's culpable for being generally incapable.  It's not surprising she is unable to deal with this, and is trying to kick it down the road.

Stop protecting her Michael not even you can moderate on this issue and save her. She's toast Michael. Toast and I mean burned toast. She needs a spanking and I do not mean a fun one her significant other /spouse/life partner/mate/husband/wife/  gives her.

She should resign and drive a natural gas taxi. She can get the gas from her friend George. He's got lots to spare.

Edited March 7, 2017 by Rue

[Michael Hardner]

Rue: I am not moderating and not debating you.  YOU ARE RIGHT.

[?Impact]

Nobody wants Wynne, and nobody wanted her last election. Many of us, including me, voted for alternatives. The problem is however there is not really a credible alternative. Horwath was looking good in the previous election, but last round she messed up big time.

[Boges]

16 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

Nobody wants Wynne, and nobody wanted her last election. Many of us, including me, voted for alternatives. The problem is however there is not really a credible alternative. Horwath was looking good in the previous election, but last round she messed up big time.

By doing what? She messed up by potentially splitting the vote between the Liberals. So public servants rallied around the Liberals because a vote for the NDP is a vote for the PCs. It's the eternal problem for the NDP. 

However, this election may see the Liberals move into 3rd Party status a la the 2011 Federal Election. 

People who don't think Patrick Brown can lead aren't really eager to have any PC government in the first place, they just use him as an excuse. 

[PIK]

CBC reported that this 25% rate cut is for power use only, not the whole bill itself. If true this is another joke to try and fool the left leaning people in the province.

[Topaz]

On the news this AM, the price of natural gas is going up $20.00 per year and Grapevine told me  they read the reason behind the increase is the Ontario gov't , hydro won't lose hydro customers to natural gas, which is cheaper.

[dialamah]

2 hours ago, Topaz said:

On the news this AM, the price of natural gas is going up $20.00 per year and Grapevine told me  they read the reason behind the increase is the Ontario gov't , hydro won't lose hydro customers to natural gas, which is cheaper.

2

What the heck is Grapevine?   Every time I see it I'm reminded of that game where someone whispers something in one person's ear, who passes it on to the next person, who passes it on to the next ... till the last person repeats it out loud and it's unrecognizable from the original statement.   So what is this really?

 

[Topaz]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

What the heck is Grapevine?   Every time I see it I'm reminded of that game where someone whispers something in one person's ear, who passes it on to the next person, who passes it on to the next ... till the last person repeats it out loud and it's unrecognizable from the original statement.   So what is this really?

 

 

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

What the heck is Grapevine?   Every time I see it I'm reminded of that game where someone whispers something in one person's ear, who passes it on to the next person, who passes it on to the next ... till the last person repeats it out loud and it's unrecognizable from the original statement.   So what is this really?

 

Grapevine is a person who tells me what they find online about certain topics and I don't want to use their real name. They are more into current events more than I am and believe me sometimes it really get too much for me, but I listen. I did say that Trump was waiting for  documents to prove his case and those documents did come forward. It's always any ones choice to believe or not.

[Boges]

Surprise! surprise! The Hydro plan is a shell game. 

https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2017/05/24/hydro-rate-cut-will-ultimately-cost-21b-watchdog-warns.html

Quote

 

It’s a short-term hydro bill gain in exchange for longer term fiscal pain.

The Liberal government’s “Fair Hydro Plan,” which lowerselectricity bills by 25 per cent, will ultimately zap Ontarians to the tune of $21 billion over the next three decades, the province’s budget watchdog has found.

In a 15-page report released Wednesday, Financial Accountability Officer Stephen LeClair said the scheme will cost the province $45 billion over the next 29 years while saving ratepayers $24 billion for a $21 billion net expense.

But LeClair warned his estimates are only applicable if “the province is able to achieve and maintain a balanced budget over 20 years.”

Finance Minister Charles Sousa only balanced the books last month after nine years of deficits.

The average monthly hydro bill is now $156 per household and the 25 per cent rate cut will lower the average this year to $123.

 

Instead of trying to tackle why rates or so high and actually bringing them down, these morons are just borrowing money to provide a short term solution inorder to win an election. Then the rates will spike after period of relief. 

Dalton did this years ago with a 10% rebate that expired when they finally did away with the debt retirement charge. 

The Liberals will, of course, put forward a message of listening to the concerns of Ontario ratepayers. 

They'll also trumpet the balanced budget they achieved using one time selling of assets. And there will still be morons in this province that would prefer this type of corruption because they "Don't Know" Patrick Brown.

Edited May 24, 2017 by Boges

[Argus]

Imagine that. The Liberals are willing to pay TWENTY ONE BILLION DOLLARS or OUR MONEY just so they can look good in the runup to the election! Has there ever been a government so willing to sacrifice the interests of the citizenry it's supposed to serve for its own venal, short sighted political interests?

[Bob Macadoo]

3 hours ago, Argus said:

Imagine that. The Liberals are willing to pay TWENTY ONE BILLION DOLLARS or OUR MONEY just so they can look good in the runup to the election! Has there ever been a government so willing to sacrifice the interests of the citizenry it's supposed to serve for its own venal, short sighted political interests?

......every one?  The only differentiation is how good they are at hiding it.  The current gov't is no surprise.....bad at it.  

The increased cost is required and its not majorly because of green contracts.  The investment will pay dividends in the long run......borrowing just to coddle people is exactly what is wrong with the "microwave" generation.

Edited May 24, 2017 by Bob Macadoo

[Boges]

52 minutes ago, Bob Macadoo said:

......every one?  The only differentiation is how good they are at hiding it.  The current gov't is no surprise.....bad at it.  

The increased cost is required and its not majorly because of green contracts.  The investment will pay dividends in the long run......borrowing just to coddle people is exactly what is wrong with the "microwave" generation.

So you think people that have seen their hydro bill increase exponentially are just whiners and should suck it up? 

Quebec's Hydro electric damns could supply a giant portion of Ontario's energy needs. But poor management has had Ontario paying people for generating Green Energy we don't need. 

Edited May 24, 2017 by Boges

[Bob Macadoo]

.....if they want the electrical infrastructure to support the next 50 years......yes.

People today know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.  Instant return for little investment.  Everyone thinks they are a venture capitalist.  Society requires long vision and stable return.

9 minutes ago, Boges said:

So you think people that have seen their hydro bill increase exponentially are just whiners and should suck it up?