Wynne says Hydro rates an "Urgent" Issue

[Boges]

What will abate the price besides artificial caps, which kneecaps investment? Is water falling going to get cheaper?

They increase the price twice a year every year. How about only once a year?

At some point the rate of increase should level off at little.

If people use too much hydro, that's the reason given if they don't use as much, like last winter, they use that as an excuse.

Other jurisdictions aren't this bad at this. Something's gotta give.

Edited September 12, 2016 by Boges

[Bob Macadoo]

They increase the price twice a year every year. How about only once a year?

At some point the rate of increase should level off at little.

If people use too much hydro, that's the reason given if they don't use as much, like last winter, they use that as an excuse.

Other jurisdictions aren't this bad at this. Something's gotta give.

It doesn't increase twice every year.....it did this year as the final cost estimates came in on grid upgrades & reactor refurbs.....too late for the routine rate review. In actual fact the OEB tries to restrict rates upon items they have no jurisdiction (ie. federal).

[Boges]

It doesn't increase twice every year.....it did this year as the final cost estimates came in on grid upgrades & reactor refurbs.....too late for the routine rate review. In actual fact the OEB tries to restrict rates upon items they have no jurisdiction (ie. federal).

Yes it does, every time the smart meter switches the hours it bills on peak it's accompanied with a rate hike. (November and May)

Edited September 13, 2016 by Boges

[cybercoma]

Cutting 8% from the HST in hydro is going to be a huge hit to provincial revenues. Good luck, Ontarians.

[The_Squid]

Cutting 8% from the HST in hydro is going to be a huge hit to provincial revenues. Good luck, Ontarians.

No, no.... Cutting taxes HELPS revenues..... Damn lefties just don't get it.

[Boges]

No, no.... Cutting taxes HELPS revenues..... Damn lefties just don't get it.

It's the lefties that are the ones doing this. I don't think you'll see a Conservative happy about this announcement. In fact the Liberals are stealing an Ontario NDP idea.

[Smoke]

Our new fossil fueled furnace will be installed Sept. 28th....just in time for winter. Bye, bye electric heat. Up your's Ontario Hydro and K. Wynne and the enviro whackos! Hello Union Gas! Wynne's clean energy act working at it's best!

[Argus]

One of the problems is that while people understand that their hydro rates keep going up they don't quite get the connection to how this is affecting the economy, how all that money is being drained from buying other things, and how many jobs the high hydro rates has already cost and will continue to cost.

The Wynne government loves to bask in the virtues of “sustainable” energy. But its deranged pursuit of green energy at any cost – dating back to the days when Gerald Butts, Justin Trudeau’s BFF, was cutting his teeth at Queen’s Park – is not economically sustainable at all. Electricity prices in Ontario are rising faster than anywhere else in North America. Many experts, including Bank of Montreal chief economist Doug Porter, warn that soaring hydro rates are among the biggest threats to the provincial economy. “Let’s just say it is going to do very serious harm to the Ontario economy if we continue to see double-digit increases in electricity rates,” he told Global TV.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/wynnes-way-rob-the-poor-help-the-rich/article31835620/

[cybercoma]

It's amazing that you can't connect those dots with minimum wage and how it drains money from the economy by limiting consumers ability to signal demand. But, hey. Good for you. You recognize it here.

[TimG]

It's amazing that you can't connect those dots with minimum wage and how it drains money from the economy by limiting consumers ability to signal demand. But, hey. Good for you. You recognize it here.

What Argus said is true from an economic perspective because higher energy prices lower productivity which means less wealth to expand the economy. What you said is complete nonsense from an economics perspective because higher wages mean lower productivity which means the economy will have less wealth to expand the economy. The only reason why people fool themselves into believing that either policy is good is because businesses are sometimes able to improve productivity faster than the increase in costs. The fact that things work out in spite of bad policy does make bad policy a good idea. Edited September 13, 2016 by TimG

[?Impact]

One of the problems is that while people understand that their hydro rates keep going up they don't quite get the connection to how this is affecting the economy, how all that money is being drained from buying other things, and how many jobs the high hydro rates has already cost and will continue to cost.

Yup, with cheap hydro we could really excite the Chinese economy by buying more and more shyte.

[Topaz]

Hi, everyone, well I looked at my latest hydro ONE bill and just the delivery charge was 124.00, followed by 44.77 HST my actual usage was around 200.00 and on a budget of 210.00. One can't not get rid of the delivery charge unless one gets off the grid......gas generator perhaps? I know I have to replace three sets of windows in my home which was built in the 1960's which means their BIG windows and will cost around 4-6000.00 to replace. IF the governments would help longer to help people reno their homes again, maybe many could bring down the cost of hydro. Hydro One does have a budget for certain people whose income is at a certain level, also.

[Bob Macadoo]

IF the governments would help longer to help people reno their homes again, maybe many could bring down the cost of hydro. Hydro One does have a budget for certain people whose income is at a certain level, also.

These programs have been around for a decade; at some point you turn the tap off and move on.

[Argus]

Yup, with cheap hydro we could really excite the Chinese economy by buying more and more shyte.

When some of Ontario's biggest employers speak openly about the impact of high energy people should listen.

The CEO of Magna, which employs tens of thousands of people in its auto parts plants flat out came out and said he would build no new plants here because of high and rising hydro rates, and is instead expanding elsewhere, including the US.

[Argus]

The more things change the more they remain the same with Ontario's incompetent Liberals and their idiocy on green energy.

Taxpayers of Ontario, you will now be paying for more of your electricity through your taxes, or through future taxes funded by deficit financing, and less through your electricity bill. Yes, that’s the new plan. It looks a lot like the old plan.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/editorials/ontarios-new-electricity-policy-history-repeats-as-farce/article31862790/

[Bob Macadoo]

The more things change the more they remain the same with Ontario's incompetent Liberals and their idiocy on green energy.

Taxpayers of Ontario, you will now be paying for more of your electricity through your taxes, or through future taxes funded by deficit financing, and less through your electricity bill. Yes, that’s the new plan. It looks a lot like the old plan.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/editorials/ontarios-new-electricity-policy-history-repeats-as-farce/article31862790/

What else were they going to do? You were either going to pay directly or you were going to socialize the cost. The cost is the cost. Same as auto insurance. You want to pay less you get less.

[Topaz]

My question is what are the plans of the NDP or the Tories if they were elected?

[capricorn]

My question is what are the plans of the NDP or the Tories if they were elected?

Yeah, cause who knows, their plans may be worse than Wynne's.

[Ash74]

Yeah, cause who knows, their plans may be worse than Wynne's.

The only way it could be worse is if it Mcguinty's.

[The_Squid]

Ontario hydro policy is a complete mess. This will probably be the demise of this gov't, unless the hydro issues get better.

[PIK]

Small business to get HST back, funny thing they don't pay it to begin with.

[Argus]

Here's a story for you which tells you something about the cost of Ontario's hydro without even mentioning it. Magna is an enormous international auto parts manufacturer headquartered in Ontario. It just won a big contract to assemble BMW's. Good for Ontario, right!?

Nope.

Magna, which said it expects to produce 200,000 vehicles per year by 2018, is considering adding production capacity in China, the U.S. or Europe within the next two years.

Notice no mention of Ontario in there? Perhaps this might be a clue why:

In North America, lower energy costs and advances in automation are offsetting higher labor costs and making the region more attractive for new plant investments, Swamy Kotagiri, Magna’s technology chief, said in a separate interview.

Well so much for that! Clearly not going to be any new plans in Ontario! But Ontarions won't, for the most part, realize why.

http://business.financialpost.com/news/transportation/magna-mulls-new-car-plants-after-securing-bmw-5-series-deal-at-flagship-austrian-plant

[Smoke]

What else were they going to do? You were either going to pay directly or you were going to socialize the cost. The cost is the cost. Same as auto insurance. You want to pay less you get less.

Yeah the cost is the cost. Except in Ontario "the cost" is way more expensive and rising faster than "the cost" in other jurisdictions. And it's mostly going to the Liberal donors who received lucrative energy contracts from their Liberal puppets at Queen's Park and to purposely botched contracts that gave them a few more votes, Liberal votes that cost taxpayers over $1B. How anyone can defend this group of criminals is beyond ridiculous.

[Argus]

Kelly Mcparland makes clear the depths of idiocy of the Liberals' electricity rebate.

To get the $1 billion needed, it will either have to cut back elsewhere, borrow more, or divert money from elsewhere. At the same time it is proposing the subsidy, which will save consumers an estimated $130 a year, it will begin charging an estimated $156 a year for Ontario’s new carbon tax. The net effect: Ontarians will still face higher bills despite the subsidy. And while the new tax will be hidden in “delivery charges” on household bills, the rebate will be separated out to ensure everyone knows who to thank.

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/kelly-mcparland-ontario-liberals-must-share-students-growing-problems-with-math

[Bob Macadoo]

Yeah the cost is the cost. Except in Ontario "the cost" is way more expensive and rising faster than "the cost" in other jurisdictions. And it's mostly going to the Liberal donors who received lucrative energy contracts from their Liberal puppets at Queen's Park and to purposely botched contracts that gave them a few more votes, Liberal votes that cost taxpayers over $1B. How anyone can defend this group of criminals is beyond ridiculous.

Jurisdictions like Manitoba, Quebec (Hydro) or some Appalachian state (subsidized coal)? Its rising fast because the infrastructure was underfunded to suppress "the cost".....trying to catch up now. Solar/Wind contracts have little to do with the dramatic rise in "the cost".