Boges Posted September 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 (edited) What will abate the price besides artificial caps, which kneecaps investment? Is water falling going to get cheaper?They increase the price twice a year every year. How about only once a year? At some point the rate of increase should level off at little. If people use too much hydro, that's the reason given if they don't use as much, like last winter, they use that as an excuse. Other jurisdictions aren't this bad at this. Something's gotta give. Edited September 12, 2016 by Boges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Macadoo Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 They increase the price twice a year every year. How about only once a year? At some point the rate of increase should level off at little. If people use too much hydro, that's the reason given if they don't use as much, like last winter, they use that as an excuse. Other jurisdictions aren't this bad at this. Something's gotta give. It doesn't increase twice every year.....it did this year as the final cost estimates came in on grid upgrades & reactor refurbs.....too late for the routine rate review. In actual fact the OEB tries to restrict rates upon items they have no jurisdiction (ie. federal). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted September 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2016 (edited) It doesn't increase twice every year.....it did this year as the final cost estimates came in on grid upgrades & reactor refurbs.....too late for the routine rate review. In actual fact the OEB tries to restrict rates upon items they have no jurisdiction (ie. federal). Yes it does, every time the smart meter switches the hours it bills on peak it's accompanied with a rate hike. (November and May) Edited September 13, 2016 by Boges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted September 13, 2016 Report Share Posted September 13, 2016 Cutting 8% from the HST in hydro is going to be a huge hit to provincial revenues. Good luck, Ontarians. Quote "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions." --Thomas Jefferson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted September 13, 2016 Report Share Posted September 13, 2016 Cutting 8% from the HST in hydro is going to be a huge hit to provincial revenues. Good luck, Ontarians. No, no.... Cutting taxes HELPS revenues..... Damn lefties just don't get it. Quote Science flies you to the moon, Religion flies you into buildings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted September 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2016 No, no.... Cutting taxes HELPS revenues..... Damn lefties just don't get it. It's the lefties that are the ones doing this. I don't think you'll see a Conservative happy about this announcement. In fact the Liberals are stealing an Ontario NDP idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoke Posted September 13, 2016 Report Share Posted September 13, 2016 Our new fossil fueled furnace will be installed Sept. 28th....just in time for winter. Bye, bye electric heat. Up your's Ontario Hydro and K. Wynne and the enviro whackos! Hello Union Gas! Wynne's clean energy act working at it's best! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted September 13, 2016 Report Share Posted September 13, 2016 One of the problems is that while people understand that their hydro rates keep going up they don't quite get the connection to how this is affecting the economy, how all that money is being drained from buying other things, and how many jobs the high hydro rates has already cost and will continue to cost. The Wynne government loves to bask in the virtues of “sustainable” energy. But its deranged pursuit of green energy at any cost – dating back to the days when Gerald Butts, Justin Trudeau’s BFF, was cutting his teeth at Queen’s Park – is not economically sustainable at all. Electricity prices in Ontario are rising faster than anywhere else in North America. Many experts, including Bank of Montreal chief economist Doug Porter, warn that soaring hydro rates are among the biggest threats to the provincial economy. “Let’s just say it is going to do very serious harm to the Ontario economy if we continue to see double-digit increases in electricity rates,” he told Global TV. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/wynnes-way-rob-the-poor-help-the-rich/article31835620/ Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted September 13, 2016 Report Share Posted September 13, 2016 It's amazing that you can't connect those dots with minimum wage and how it drains money from the economy by limiting consumers ability to signal demand. But, hey. Good for you. You recognize it here. Quote "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions." --Thomas Jefferson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted September 13, 2016 Report Share Posted September 13, 2016 (edited) It's amazing that you can't connect those dots with minimum wage and how it drains money from the economy by limiting consumers ability to signal demand. But, hey. Good for you. You recognize it here.What Argus said is true from an economic perspective because higher energy prices lower productivity which means less wealth to expand the economy. What you said is complete nonsense from an economics perspective because higher wages mean lower productivity which means the economy will have less wealth to expand the economy. The only reason why people fool themselves into believing that either policy is good is because businesses are sometimes able to improve productivity faster than the increase in costs. The fact that things work out in spite of bad policy does make bad policy a good idea. Edited September 13, 2016 by TimG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted September 13, 2016 Report Share Posted September 13, 2016 One of the problems is that while people understand that their hydro rates keep going up they don't quite get the connection to how this is affecting the economy, how all that money is being drained from buying other things, and how many jobs the high hydro rates has already cost and will continue to cost. Yup, with cheap hydro we could really excite the Chinese economy by buying more and more shyte. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted September 13, 2016 Report Share Posted September 13, 2016 Hi, everyone, well I looked at my latest hydro ONE bill and just the delivery charge was 124.00, followed by 44.77 HST my actual usage was around 200.00 and on a budget of 210.00. One can't not get rid of the delivery charge unless one gets off the grid......gas generator perhaps? I know I have to replace three sets of windows in my home which was built in the 1960's which means their BIG windows and will cost around 4-6000.00 to replace. IF the governments would help longer to help people reno their homes again, maybe many could bring down the cost of hydro. Hydro One does have a budget for certain people whose income is at a certain level, also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Macadoo Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 IF the governments would help longer to help people reno their homes again, maybe many could bring down the cost of hydro. Hydro One does have a budget for certain people whose income is at a certain level, also. These programs have been around for a decade; at some point you turn the tap off and move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 Yup, with cheap hydro we could really excite the Chinese economy by buying more and more shyte. When some of Ontario's biggest employers speak openly about the impact of high energy people should listen. The CEO of Magna, which employs tens of thousands of people in its auto parts plants flat out came out and said he would build no new plants here because of high and rising hydro rates, and is instead expanding elsewhere, including the US. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 The more things change the more they remain the same with Ontario's incompetent Liberals and their idiocy on green energy. Taxpayers of Ontario, you will now be paying for more of your electricity through your taxes, or through future taxes funded by deficit financing, and less through your electricity bill. Yes, that’s the new plan. It looks a lot like the old plan. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/editorials/ontarios-new-electricity-policy-history-repeats-as-farce/article31862790/ Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Macadoo Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 The more things change the more they remain the same with Ontario's incompetent Liberals and their idiocy on green energy. Taxpayers of Ontario, you will now be paying for more of your electricity through your taxes, or through future taxes funded by deficit financing, and less through your electricity bill. Yes, that’s the new plan. It looks a lot like the old plan. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/editorials/ontarios-new-electricity-policy-history-repeats-as-farce/article31862790/ What else were they going to do? You were either going to pay directly or you were going to socialize the cost. The cost is the cost. Same as auto insurance. You want to pay less you get less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 My question is what are the plans of the NDP or the Tories if they were elected? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted September 15, 2016 Report Share Posted September 15, 2016 My question is what are the plans of the NDP or the Tories if they were elected? Yeah, cause who knows, their plans may be worse than Wynne's. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash74 Posted September 15, 2016 Report Share Posted September 15, 2016 Yeah, cause who knows, their plans may be worse than Wynne's. The only way it could be worse is if it Mcguinty's. Quote “Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains.”― Winston S. Churchill There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him. –Robert Heinlein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted September 15, 2016 Report Share Posted September 15, 2016 Ontario hydro policy is a complete mess. This will probably be the demise of this gov't, unless the hydro issues get better. Quote Science flies you to the moon, Religion flies you into buildings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted September 15, 2016 Report Share Posted September 15, 2016 Small business to get HST back, funny thing they don't pay it to begin with. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted September 15, 2016 Report Share Posted September 15, 2016 Here's a story for you which tells you something about the cost of Ontario's hydro without even mentioning it. Magna is an enormous international auto parts manufacturer headquartered in Ontario. It just won a big contract to assemble BMW's. Good for Ontario, right!? Nope. Magna, which said it expects to produce 200,000 vehicles per year by 2018, is considering adding production capacity in China, the U.S. or Europe within the next two years. Notice no mention of Ontario in there? Perhaps this might be a clue why: In North America, lower energy costs and advances in automation are offsetting higher labor costs and making the region more attractive for new plant investments, Swamy Kotagiri, Magna’s technology chief, said in a separate interview. Well so much for that! Clearly not going to be any new plans in Ontario! But Ontarions won't, for the most part, realize why. http://business.financialpost.com/news/transportation/magna-mulls-new-car-plants-after-securing-bmw-5-series-deal-at-flagship-austrian-plant Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoke Posted September 15, 2016 Report Share Posted September 15, 2016 What else were they going to do? You were either going to pay directly or you were going to socialize the cost. The cost is the cost. Same as auto insurance. You want to pay less you get less. Yeah the cost is the cost. Except in Ontario "the cost" is way more expensive and rising faster than "the cost" in other jurisdictions. And it's mostly going to the Liberal donors who received lucrative energy contracts from their Liberal puppets at Queen's Park and to purposely botched contracts that gave them a few more votes, Liberal votes that cost taxpayers over $1B. How anyone can defend this group of criminals is beyond ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted September 15, 2016 Report Share Posted September 15, 2016 Kelly Mcparland makes clear the depths of idiocy of the Liberals' electricity rebate. To get the $1 billion needed, it will either have to cut back elsewhere, borrow more, or divert money from elsewhere. At the same time it is proposing the subsidy, which will save consumers an estimated $130 a year, it will begin charging an estimated $156 a year for Ontario’s new carbon tax. The net effect: Ontarians will still face higher bills despite the subsidy. And while the new tax will be hidden in “delivery charges” on household bills, the rebate will be separated out to ensure everyone knows who to thank. http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/kelly-mcparland-ontario-liberals-must-share-students-growing-problems-with-math Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Macadoo Posted September 15, 2016 Report Share Posted September 15, 2016 Yeah the cost is the cost. Except in Ontario "the cost" is way more expensive and rising faster than "the cost" in other jurisdictions. And it's mostly going to the Liberal donors who received lucrative energy contracts from their Liberal puppets at Queen's Park and to purposely botched contracts that gave them a few more votes, Liberal votes that cost taxpayers over $1B. How anyone can defend this group of criminals is beyond ridiculous. Jurisdictions like Manitoba, Quebec (Hydro) or some Appalachian state (subsidized coal)? Its rising fast because the infrastructure was underfunded to suppress "the cost".....trying to catch up now. Solar/Wind contracts have little to do with the dramatic rise in "the cost". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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