Wynne says Hydro rates an "Urgent" Issue

[Bob Macadoo]

It is the Liberals that are selling Hydro 1.

It is the Liberals that have wasted billions on gas plants cancellations and smart meter.

It is the Liberals that have been paying huge subsidies on wind and solar power.

It is the Liberals that caused the massive hydro bills we are all paying and now they feel it is only the Liberals that can help us all out of this mess.

There is no one helping us out of this mess. This is what power costs. Upgrades cost money, fuel costs money, salaries cost money.......and yes f*ck-ups cost money. There is nothing the PCs are going to do to "fix" this, unless they seek to resubsidize it. I kinda doubt that.

If you wish to vote out Wynne for the f*ck-ups (RE; Oakville) I agree......just don't expect better (RE; Harris "leasing" Bruce OR Rae halting Darlington construction)

[Smoke]

There is no one helping us out of this mess. This is what power costs. Upgrades cost money, fuel costs money, salaries cost money.......and yes f*ck-ups cost money. There is nothing the PCs are going to do to "fix" this, unless they seek to resubsidize it. I kinda doubt that.

If you wish to vote out Wynne for the f*ck-ups (RE; Oakville) I agree......just don't expect better (RE; Harris "leasing" Bruce OR Rae halting Darlington construction)

Then why do other jurisdictions pay far less for electricity?

[?Impact]

Then why do other jurisdictions pay far less for electricity?

Quebec, Manitoba, and BC* have public utilities and use hydro power as the primary mover.

*Yes, I am aware there is a single private distribution/retail company in the Kootenay region, but it does no do any generation and involves only 3% of the BC population.

So far I have learned that the government that appoints the members of the OEB that approves rate changes has nothing to do with the rate changes, unless of course, Mike Harris. Tell me more.

You are right, the OEB was set up by Mike Harris as part of the Electricity Act of 1998. Yes, they approve the rate changes, but the rate requests are made by the operating companies. There is little they can do about the rates other than request justification, and perhaps delay or even out rate plans. They cannot magically say lower your rates.

[Argus]

del

Edited September 9, 2016 by Argus

[overthere]

Now isn't that cute, just a few months ago we were being told that Trudeau will do whatever Wynne wants. I do wish you guys could get your story straight.

Can you spell 'chronic degenerative symbiosis'?

[overthere]

I enjoy my 5c/kWh electricity rates. Just thought I'd let you Ontarians know.

In Alberta today the market rate for residential consumers today is about $.037 /kwh if you chose floating rate, and $.08/kwh on a contract. Both will skyrocket soon when Notleyomics takes hold. What is the rate in ON? We are like you, we urgently and actively want to dissuade investment.

[Ash74]

What does Patrick Brown have to say about this? Do you all believe if we stopped all future wind/solar development your bill is going down?

You're rate is also paying for the refurbishment of Darlington, the expansion of Adam Beck, the construction at Mattagami, the upgrades to Cherrywood Switching.

Know what happens when you artificially suppress your power charges? See Toronto Hydro trying to keep the lights on down in Condo slumland because their yards are incapable of handling the load. Privatize T-H you say? I bet that'll get that needed investment.

You maybe right about nobody being able to fix this mess but I do not see how it could have been done worse and cause as much damage.

Billions have been wasted and every time the energy ministers office makes a statement it is about added cost to the public.

It was announced a few weeks ago that the cap and trade charge will be hidden in the delivery charge.

The hits just keep on coming with this bunch and it will not stop till the people of Ontario show the Liberals the door.

[ironstone]

I don't think has much to worry about,I think she has a very good shot at another majority next time around.All the scandals haven't really ever hurt the Liberals on election day before.

[Ash74]

I don't think has much to worry about,I think she has a very good shot at another majority next time around.All the scandals haven't really ever hurt the Liberals on election day before.

If that is the case maybe children in Africa will hold telethons for us in Ontario.

[Bob Macadoo]

You maybe right about nobody being able to fix this mess but I do not see how it could have been done worse and cause as much damage.

See that's where I think you're wrong. If the PCs were re-elected and continued on with the march to privatization we would've been in a much worse situation. That didn't happen though and we are here. Now Wynne wants to take us to that brink (Hydro-One) again and it is time to halt this train. Problem is we don't know what Brown's policy on this is. We do know he'll dump his christian platitudes at the first sign of trouble......if he "etch-a-sketch's" his power policy.....then what? That leaves us with Horvath who is clear on policy although unrealistic.

Edited September 10, 2016 by Bob Macadoo

[Ash74]

See that's where I think you're wrong. If the PCs were re-elected and continued on with the march to privatization we would've been in a much worse situation. That didn't happen though and we are here. Now Wynne wants to take us to that brink (Hydro-One) again and it is time to halt this train. Problem is we don't know what Brown's policy on this is. We do know he'll dump his christian platitudes at the first sign of trouble......if he "etch-a-sketch's" his power policy.....then what? That leaves us with Horvath who is clear on policy although unrealistic.

Everybody fears the "HIDDEN AGENDA" the conservatives are always accused of but the Ontario Liberals have hit us with a new tax after every election with the exception of the minority government of Mcguinty. I don't recall them ever campaigning on raising taxes yet here we are about to be hit with a cap and trade tax

How is the Liberal energy plan not an "etch-a-sketch " policy?

The amount of money that has been wasted could have been much better served on better energy infrastructure,health care, education are a million other things that could be listed.

This green energy act is a disaster and like all politicians they will never admit it.

[Bob Macadoo]

Everybody fears the "HIDDEN AGENDA ... How is the Liberal energy plan not an "etch-a-sketch " policy? ... and like all politicians they will never admit it.

I'm not hiding under my bed about the PCs, I just want to know. It looks like Brown is going to be whatever you want him to be. Hudak tried to pretzel himself and got stuck.....let's see what he does.

I think the subsidies/Oakville are Liberal recovery strategies, other than that, they've been implementing their stated policies. HydrozOne isn't an etch-a-sketch energy policy its an etch-a-sketch infrastructure funding (ie. can't raise taxes) policy.

[Smoke]

Quebec, Manitoba, and BC* have public utilities and use hydro power as the primary mover.

So then you agree that the Ontario Liberal's handling of the energy portfolio has failed miserably.

[?Impact]

So then you agree that the Ontario Liberal's handling of the energy portfolio has failed miserably.

As I have said countless times, the Liberals failed miserably because they didn't spend the hundreds of billions required to fix Mike Harris's destruction of our public utility.

[Bonam]

As I have said countless times, the Liberals failed miserably because they didn't spend the hundreds of billions required to fix Mike Harris's destruction of our public utility.

"Hundreds of billions"? That's like the entire GDP of Ontario. "Hundreds of billions" of dollars would be enough to make Ontario electricity free for the next half century.

[Smoke]

But Harris....hahaha really???

[?Impact]

"Hundreds of billions"? That's like the entire GDP of Ontario. "Hundreds of billions" of dollars would be enough to make Ontario electricity free for the next half century.

Yet, the Progressive Conservatives themselves said that the 407 cost $100 billion; then of course they sold it to their crony buddies for a song. The cost of assets accumulated over 80+ years is not trivial.

[Big Guy]

OK. I have read criticism after criticism. Lets assume that all the critics are correct, the Liberals are defeated and your party is elected to a majority - how how are you going to change things? What are you going to do?

[Smoke]

The stupidity of it all! http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/ontario-liberals-expected-to-reveal-electricity-cuts-as-election-looms/article31821311/?click=sf_globefb

"The government could spin such a move as a way to encourage people to use more electricity – such as by driving electric cars or switching to electric heat – in lieu of burning fossil fuels."

Hehe, we are doing the exact opposite. Our home was built in 1973 and was fitted with electric bb heaters. We have had monthly electricity bills of over $500 and there seems to be no relief in site. We are currently pricing a new natural gas (fossil fuel) furnace as we really have no choice. And they are suggesting people convert to electric heating!! Do they really think people are that stupid? Isn't living in Liberal lala land great?

[capricorn]

This just in from the Liberal Throne Speech. 8% reduction on electricity rates as of January 1, 2017. That's the provincial sales tax portion of the HST.

https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2016/09/12/wynne-announces-8-per-cent-hst-cut-from-hydro-bills-in-throne-speech.html

The Liberals have managed to compute how much money was saved in health care costs because of their nimble handling of the environment. That's some awesome computing. No link yet.

[Boges]

So the price will continue to increase unabated. The government will just forgo the HST, an idea the NDP came up with a long time ago.

It only makes sense, you don't pay HST on Food, why are we paying HST on Natural Gas while we're at it. Or Gasoline and Alcohol! There's an Excise tax already on that.

There's a thread somewhere on this site where I go on about the "Clean Energy Benefit" McGuinty introduced which was just a bribe where they borrowed money to artificially lower the electricity bill by providing a 10% reduction.

This is more of the same. Take tax to make people forget that hydro costs are out of control.

They also plan to add a cost to average people through a Cap and Trade scheme.

Edited September 12, 2016 by Boges

[capricorn]

So the price will continue to increase unabated.

Gotta honour all those contracts for wind and solar hydro generation.

Here's the link to all the moola the Liberals saved in health care costs due to their deft handling of the environment.

Over the course of the past decade, Ontario electricity ratepayers have helped cover the costs associated with removing dirty coal-fired generation from our electricity system.

And while these investments have resulted in increased costs associated with generation, they have also created savings of more than $4 billion a year in health and other costs associated with smog and pollution from coal-fired generation.

https://news.ontario.ca/opo/en/2016/09/speech-from-the-throne.html

Wynne and her Liberal team are nothing short of wizards.

[?Impact]

It only makes sense, you don't pay HST on Food, why are we paying HST on Natural Gas while we're at it. Or Gasoline and Alcohol! There's an Excise tax already on that.

Income tax bad, commodity tax good.

Commodity tax bad.

Tax bad.

Anarchy.

[Boges]

Income tax bad, commodity tax good.

Commodity tax bad.

Tax bad.

Anarchy.

Can you cite where I said Income Tax in general is bad?

Is an Excise tax not a commodity tax? Certainly adding HST to the post Excise tax total (taxing a tax) is an especially egregious tax grab.

Kind of like tipping a waiter on the post tax portion of the bill.

Edited September 12, 2016 by Boges

[Bob Macadoo]

So the price will continue to increase unabated.

What will abate the price besides artificial caps, which kneecaps investment? Is water falling going to get cheaper?