Canada - a wholly owned province of China

[cannuck]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

What is your example ?  Some desktop software ?  How is China going to 'Steal' services that Canadians can provide, and that they can't ?  The company CGI is a world leader in computer consulting - how will they steal that ?  

I have had enough of this.  I see flaws in your argument, and my point that Canada can't sell its soul has not been addressed.  I have asked for points from the other side, so I'll wait on those.

I'm not going to put you on 'Ignore' yet but your arguments are pretty narrow and anecdotal for me.  I picked up some points from both you and Argus but not enough to sway me one way or the other.

Got a brief moment, and agree, I owe you the other side of the coin.

IMHO, the very top of the list is peace.  The way to prevent another super-power standoff is make the big players dependent upon each other for economic success.  Chinie could very well have become a monstrous NoKo, but thanks to the very level head and steady hand of Deng at the helm, it instead turned into a trade dragon.  For us, it means access to a very large POTENTIAL market that is not the US.  We need diversity on our source of trade revenue and China can provide that.  Sadly, we are not very good at selling our products there - more the passive Canadian nature than any other factor.

[Argus]

8 minutes ago, cannuck said:

Got a brief moment, and agree, I owe you the other side of the coin.

IMHO, the very top of the list is peace.  The way to prevent another super-power standoff is make the big players dependent upon each other for economic success.  Chinie could very well have become a monstrous NoKo, but thanks to the very level head and steady hand of Deng at the helm, it instead turned into a trade dragon.  For us, it means access to a very large POTENTIAL market that is not the US.  We need diversity on our source of trade revenue and China can provide that.  Sadly, we are not very good at selling our products there - more the passive Canadian nature than any other factor.

And the more we sell the more control China has over us. China can threaten this or that export at any time without justification, causing political problems here. Remember the phony nonsense about banning canola? The Chinese pretended they had concerns about quality control here and threatened to cut them, just before Trudeau was supposed to go there. Then 'generously' let him talk them out of it in exchange for... we don't know. But we know they got what they wanted, and we know the Liberals have been VERY accommodating since then.

The more Canadian jobs are tied to exports to this police state the more they can wield influence over a government they already appear to wield a lot of influence over.

[bush_cheney2004]

Canada already sold out to U.S. and other foreign interests decades ago.   Numerous Canadian authors have lamented this reality (e.g. Maude Barlow).

Americans own 50% of Canada's manufacturing base, and foreigners own 70% of all oil/bitumen production.

Edited December 10, 2017 by bush_cheney2004

[Argus]

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

Canada already sold out to U.S. and other foreign interests decades ago.   Numerous Canadian authors have lamented this reality (e.g. Maude Barlow).

Americans own 50% of Canada's manufacturing base, and foreigners own 70% of all oil/bitumen production.

Yes, but America is a democracy with an independent court system which operates under the rule of law. Even if it has a economic illiterate in power and his lackeys in the bureaucracy say whatever they want - as is the case now and as was the case under Obama, the courts as well as international law and trade tribunals can still be used to render a fair decision. Also, while corporations might be headquartered in the US they are not OWNED by the US government, and will make decisions based on their economic profits, not on the desire of the US government. That is not the case with Chinese corporations.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, cannuck said:

Got a brief moment, and agree, I owe you the other side of the coin.

 

Well thanks.  Those are also relevant points.  I am still on the fence.

[eyeball]

4 hours ago, Argus said:

Yes, but America is a democracy with an independent court system which operates under the rule of law. Even if it has a economic illiterate in power and his lackeys in the bureaucracy say whatever they want - as is the case now and as was the case under Obama, the courts as well as international law and trade tribunals can still be used to render a fair decision. Also, while corporations might be headquartered in the US they are not OWNED by the US government, and will make decisions based on their economic profits, not on the desire of the US government. That is not the case with Chinese corporations.

Its interesting how our court system is characterized as being independent when it comes to corporate law but when crime or social issues are at issue independence is often attacked and criticized for being too activist, out of control, undemocratic and, hilariously enough, politicized.

Conversely, I suspect many right-wing conservatives would feel like they'd finally made it home under a Chinese legal system that adjudicated things like public decency, sexual orientation or environmental protection.  

[Argus]

Of course, it won't happen because the Liberals know full well what such an inquiry would show about how much money is going into their coffers from China. If China is engaging in influence peddling and bribery, including using overseas Chinese to do it in Australia and New Zealand they are most definitely doing it in Canada too. And the Liberal party will be the beneficiaries.

As Australia continues to reel from lurid revelations about the extent of Beijing’s influence-peddling, espionage and propaganda operations in that country, Conservative Senator Linda Frum says Ottawa should follow Canberra’s example by launching an inquiry into the extent of Beijing’s subterfuge in Canada, and by tightening laws to prevent Beijing from meddling in Canadian political processes.

 

http://nationalpost.com/opinion/terry-glavin-liberals-not-keen-to-prohibit-foreign-read-chinese-money-from-influencing-canadian-voters

[eyeball]

13 minutes ago, Argus said:

Of course, it won't happen because the Liberals know full well what such an inquiry would show about how much money is going into their coffers from China.

Well we had a chance to change direction with Harper and it really looked like he coulda been a contender when it came to halting Canada's capitulation to China but as Argus has said Harper never really was a conservative...a Conservative maybe but that's a completely different animal that's virtually indistinguishable from a Liberal.

Maybe its a Deep State thingy or something.

[bush_cheney2004]

4 hours ago, eyeball said:

Well we had a chance to change direction with Harper and it really looked like he coulda been a contender when it came to halting Canada's capitulation to China

 

Canada's "capitulation" to China started with Diefenbaker, and accelerated when Pierre Trudeau made Canada the first nation to deny entry to the Olympics for an IOC recognized team...Republic of China (Taiwan).  

Whatever parts of Canada that aren't already owned by Americans will be owned by China.

Edited December 13, 2017 by bush_cheney2004

[Flint]

Canada was made the 51st state at NAFTA, maybe the fruit doesn't fall from the  tree with the son.

[andromeda]

On ‎2017‎-‎12‎-‎13 at 1:24 PM, Argus said:

Of course, it won't happen because the Liberals know full well what such an inquiry would show about how much money is going into their coffers from China. If China is engaging in influence peddling and bribery, including using overseas Chinese to do it in Australia and New Zealand they are most definitely doing it in Canada too. And the Liberal party will be the beneficiaries.

As Australia continues to reel from lurid revelations about the extent of Beijing’s influence-peddling, espionage and propaganda operations in that country, Conservative Senator Linda Frum says Ottawa should follow Canberra’s example by launching an inquiry into the extent of Beijing’s subterfuge in Canada, and by tightening laws to prevent Beijing from meddling in Canadian political processes.

 

http://nationalpost.com/opinion/terry-glavin-liberals-not-keen-to-prohibit-foreign-read-chinese-money-from-influencing-canadian-voters

it's amazing how cheaply Canadian politicians can be bought off by way of 3rd party political donations,  free trips,  cash for access political fundraisers,  or 'gifts' to the trudeau foundation.  it's not going to stop because it's a 'winning formula'  for the liberals.   but how much damage is it going to do to our economy and sovereignty?

[Argus]

6 minutes ago, andromeda said:

it's amazing how cheaply Canadian politicians can be bought off by way of 3rd party political donations,  free trips,  cash for access political fundraisers,  or 'gifts' to the trudeau foundation.  it's not going to stop because it's a 'winning formula'  for the liberals.   but how much damage is it going to do to our economy and sovereignty?

More like how much has it already done. Almost everything these people do is designed to enhance their political chances without regard to the economic damage  to Canada, or the cost to the budget. Witness immigration as another such subject.

[taxme]

5 hours ago, andromeda said:

it's amazing how cheaply Canadian politicians can be bought off by way of 3rd party political donations,  free trips,  cash for access political fundraisers,  or 'gifts' to the trudeau foundation.  it's not going to stop because it's a 'winning formula'  for the liberals.   but how much damage is it going to do to our economy and sovereignty?

Canada does not have a real to goodness honest and democratic politicians. Canada for the most part has many crooks, liars and thieves running Canada though. Every day we see that they are only out to screw the taxpayer's of Canada. They blow tax dollars like it was just given to them to go have some fun with. If our politicians respected the taxpayer's tax dollars Canada would not be deep in debt, and neither would it's citizen's. The politicians know that Canadians are weak and politically stupid, and know that they can get away with whatever they want too. Trudeau's foundation is probably just as crooked as the Clinton Foundation was. It will never stop until the lazy sit on your ass taxpayer's start to take an interest in what those so-called politicians are doing to them every day. The economy would be working fine if it were not for the Indians, environmentalists, animal lovers and special interest groups who have a say in how things will be done. But hey. 

[taxme]

18 hours ago, Flint said:

Canada was made the 51st state at NAFTA, maybe the fruit doesn't fall from the  tree with the son.

We might as well join America and be done with it. America pretty much runs Canada. Just try telling them to f-off and watch what happens. Canada needs America, and not the other way around. Close the border and Canada is phuc-ed.

What I can never seem to understand is as to why America being in 20 trillion dollars in debt, and yet our Canadian dollar is 30% less worth than theirs. What am I missing here?  Is Canada also in debt for 20 trillion? Help. 

[eyeball]

5 hours ago, taxme said:

What I can never seem to understand is as to why America being in 20 trillion dollars in debt, and yet our Canadian dollar is 30% less worth than theirs. What am I missing here?  Is Canada also in debt for 20 trillion? Help. 

Its due to Canada's greater number of liberals per capita.  You're welcome.

[Michael Hardner]

17 hours ago, andromeda said:

1) it's amazing how cheaply Canadian politicians can be bought off by way of 3rd party political donations,  free trips,  cash for access political fundraisers,  or 'gifts' to the trudeau foundation. 

2) it's not going to stop because it's a 'winning formula'  for the liberals.   but how much damage is it going to do to our economy and sovereignty?

1) Do you have a cite for those accusations ?  I'm open to the idea but we haven't heard that before.

2) Are you against all foreign trade or just China ?

[Argus]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1) Do you have a cite for those accusations ?  I'm open to the idea but we haven't heard that before.

2) Are you against all foreign trade or just China ?

The Liberal Party is employing an under-the-radar strategy that taps into the power of Justin Trudeau to generate tens of thousands of dollars from cash-for-access events at the homes of wealthy Chinese-Canadians that provide intimate face-time with the Prime Minister that can be used as business currency at home and in China.

Attendance figures suggest the party collects a minimum of $50,000 per event from donors – and up to $120,000 – in a system that revolves around rich entrepreneurs in Vancouver and Toronto, home to large Chinese-Canadian business communities with people willing to shell out $1,500 per ticket to meet Mr. Trudeau in a private setting.

Some of the guests and hosts at the intimate fundraisers are well-connected to China's ruling Communist Party.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/influential-chinese-canadians-paying-to-attend-private-fundraisers-with-trudeau/article33131597/

I'm personally against trade with a brutal police state intent on expanding its influence around the world through massive espionage efforts, through incorporating its overseas diaspora into its espionage and influence efforts, through bribery, corruption and influence peddling.

[taxme]

13 hours ago, eyeball said:

Its due to Canada's greater number of liberals per capita.  You're welcome.

I am thinking that it may be due to our dear leader politicians who are in cahoots with the banksters who control the issuance of our Canadian money. They probably dropped the dollar to make extra money on the side. After all the private zionist banksters are the ones who create the money out of thin air, control the gold and the markets. If they are already able to manipulate the money system they could probably just as easy make the Canadian dollar worth more than the American dollar tomorrow. It all depends on which road they want to go to on that day. Just saying. 

[dre]

Reverting to a posture of economic isolationism with china is not in the cards. This ship sailed about 30 years ago. Investigating political interference, sounds nice...the problem whoever did the investigating would be people that are in on all this. 

It would be like expecting the fox to fix the holes in your chicken coup. He wont do a very good job because he likes the holes and wants to eat the chickens.

Edited December 15, 2017 by dre

[Argus]

A report the federal government will no-doubt ignore details how the Chinese embassy and its consulates threaten and intimidate Chinese-Canadians into keeping silent about their opposition to the regime. Which is bad enough, but it doesn't go a step further and ask how many Chinese-Canadians are threatened or intimidated into working with the Chinese government to advance its interests.

One thing we know for sure is that the Trudeau government will do nothing about any of it in fear of offending their Chinese government patron.

http://nationalpost.com/news/world/confidential-report-reveals-how-chinese-officials-harass-activists-in-canada-there-is-a-consistent-pattern

[Argus]

So what happens when the generous Chinese government builds you something for free? Well, nothing is ever free in this world. The Chinese built the headquarters of the African Union at no charge! Their own Chinese government owned construction firms built it, and their own Chinese government owned tech firms installed its computers and communications systems - even gave it furniture! Wasn't that nice!?

Only it seems they built it complete with listening devices, and so that all the computer information would be dumped overnight to a Chinese server! 

Meanwhile back in Canada, the Chinese government has just taken over one of Canada's largest construction firms. And it continues to lobby a desperate-to-please Liberal government for contracts for its telcom Huawei a company the Americans, Australians and Indians, among others, have banned because of fears of their close association with the Chinese military.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-42861276

Edited January 29, 2018 by Argus

[H10]

On 8/18/2016 at 1:00 PM, bjre said:

Did you think about what US can take from Canada when hundreds of Canadian companies were acquired by US companies in recent years like Zellers, Tim Hortons, ATI. Did you asked what they had taken?

 

Why you care so much about what China get and care nothing about what you can get? Did you even think of what you can keep if exclude China?

 

 

Even in 2nd rate cities in China, they can build a new subway line each year, why Toronto cannot add even one station in 10 years? Did you do it yourself? Did US help Canada do it? Exclude China might be a good idea, but we care about the real improvement of our life, why for do many years, no one can make us see something real except Mayor Ford.

 

 

What is your idea, you would rather hunger to death in order to not let China to get one cent? Why? Just because of decades of brainwashed?

 

 

 

 

 

(p.s. China's human right situation is better than Canada, see my other posts.)

 

Burn, he got you there.  China can build in 6 months what we take 3 decades to build.  That is why Canada is probably doomed, too much corruption with all the developers bribing off the politicians.

[?Impact]

Apparently communism works much better than capitalism when it comes to building subways.

[Argus]

24 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

Apparently communism works much better than capitalism when it comes to building subways.

I suppose being able to shoot everyone if you're behind schedule does lend a certain incentive.

[Argus]

Canada continues to resist the urging of basically all its allies to sever the increasingly wide support we give to Huawei, the Chinese government telcom. Unlike all our allies the goverment has thus far refused to ban Huawei or its equipment from Canada, and has not interfered as a dozen Canadian universities work closely with Huawei to develop 5g networks. Huawei is controlled by China's government and under Chinese law must cooperate with Chinese espionage efforts.

 

VANCOUVER—Experts are warning Canada that working with Chinese telecommunications giant Huawei is a grave “mistake” after an explosive Australian report last week alleged the company had hacked a foreign network and shared the information with Beijing.

The Chinese multinational is currently in partnership with Canadian universities across the country as well as companies such as Telus, with whom it is developing 5G networks in Canada.

https://www.thestar.com/vancouver/2018/11/05/canada-should-oust-chinese-telecom-huawei-say-security-experts.html