Canada - a wholly owned province of China

[TimG]

But in US and Canada, the tiny voice of truth is under the oceans of mainstream media that most people can not hear.

What you call "truth" is likely a fiction that you like to believe. It is actually very hard to discover the "truth" anywhere because so many people want to spin the facts to support narratives that they prefer. That I why I think it is important to have competing narratives. In China only the official narrative can be spoken openly and that leaves the Chinese people ignorant of the world.

[Argus]

Worked out fine....just like GM operations in any other foreign country...like...ummm...Canada. China is now the largest U.S. trading partner. If Canada/Canadians don't want a piece of the action, then step aside for those who do.

Okay. I'm fine with that. Chinese trade brings little of benefit to any other country. They cheat on all the rules and they make sure the play favors them. Boeing went over there and built a plant to build them airliners. Soon the Chinese will be selling airliners to the world and Boeing will be closing down its American plants, and you'll still be crowing about how great a deal that was.

[TimG]

Worked out fine....just like GM operations in any other foreign country...like...ummm...Canada. China is now the largest U.S. trading partner. If Canada/Canadians don't want a piece of the action, then step aside for those who do.

Canada is largest buyer of US exports by a large margin. China is only the 'latest trading partner' if you include all of the stuff the US imports from China. Edited August 18, 2016 by TimG

[bush_cheney2004]

Why? What would the cost be if Canada ended all trade with China? We have over a $40 billion trade deficit with them. We can buy their shitty products from a dozen other countries just as cheap, and they buy nothing from us but commodities. We can sell them to anyone.

Because this is the same kind of whining over trade with the United States.....wanna end all trade with the U.S. too ? It is a bankrupt strategy that ignores global economic realities.

[Argus]

Because this is the same kind of whining over trade with the United States.....wanna end all trade with the U.S. too ? It is a bankrupt strategy that ignores global economic realities.

You know what a global economic reality is? You guys have been the world's biggest patsies for the last twenty years. The Chinese laugh hysterically and do high fives every time US trade representatives leave town after having screwed them over. US-China trade has produced rust belts and collapsing industries in the US and glittering cities in China.

Grats.

[bush_cheney2004]

Canada is largest buyer of US exports by a large margin. China is only the 'latest trading partner' if you include all of the stuff the US imports from China.

The U.S. is not as dependent on exports as is Canada, and Canada exports 75% to a single nation. Canada is also hurt by low loonie valuations (so called Canadian peso), which makes foreigners buying up businesses cheap and foreign investment by Canadians more expensive.

[bush_cheney2004]

You know what a global economic reality is? You guys have been the world's biggest patsies for the last twenty years. The Chinese laugh hysterically and do high fives every time US trade representatives leave town after having screwed them over. US-China trade has produced rust belts and collapsing industries in the US and glittering cities in China.

Grats.

Actually, the U.S. has benefited from Chinese trade and investment in U.S. debt for decades, on a scale that dwarfs anything that is possible with Canada now or going forward. This is what economic superpowers do....lead, follow, or get out of the way.

[Argus]

And in any case, we are bringing in older immigrants, not younger ones.

"Pandering to a crowd of indo-Canadian voters, Trudeau promised to open up immigration to more family class immigrants (as Mulcair has done) and let people bring over their parents and grandparents.

This is not a tiny problem. Roughly 40,000 of the newcomers Canada admits each year are the older parents or grandparents of new citizens. Under Kenney, the Immigration department estimated Grandma and Grandpa Immigrant were costing Canadian taxpayers between $1.5 and $2 billion annually. That’s the amount left over after adding up the economic and tax contributions of older family-class immigrants and subtracting the social benefits they received.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/07/26/justin-trudeau-has-the-wrong-idea-on-immigration

[TimG]

Canadian companies now routinely demand Canadian work experience simply as a way to screen out thousands of potential job applicants. The practice smacks of discrimination.

Why is requiring experience for a job that can be verified with a phone call discriminatory?

with most employers saying they assume a foreign name meant the worker had poor English...

Why is this different from rejecting a resume because of a spelling error? Filtering resumes, by the nature of the process, is an arbitrary exercise. Many applicants look identical on paper and you cannot possibility interview everyone. So people make snap decisions for any number of reasons. Filtering based on a perception of English language skills is rational. They are working to replace human filters with AIs which will help with some of these but no AI will help if the candidate does not demonstrate adequate English skills in a interview. Edited August 19, 2016 by TimG

[Charles Anthony]

This thread was split up. Most of the posts were sent into a new thread entitled: Canadian Immigration.

[cybercoma]

This thread was split up. Most of the posts were sent into a new thread entitled: Canadian Immigration.

Care to elaborate on how to talk about Chinese immigration without talking about immigration? What's the criteria for,staying on topic here?

[Argus]

Now Trudeau has a Temporary Foreign Worker program issue. Like he hasn't learned from Harper's mistake, and how that bit him on the ass.

There are only occasional needs for temporary foreign workers, in specific highly technical jobs. Most of the rest of them are here because Canadian companies want cheaper workers, and because they don't want to train workers. This is combined with lazy government which, instead of working with the provinces to upgrade their skills training, prefers cheap, easy, immediate solutions.

But if the quid pro quo for those agreements — such as a possible free trade deal with China — is allowing more foreign workers into Canada, especially in skilled positions, Ottawa could see pushback from voters. The previous Conservative government had significantly expanded the temporary foreign worker program and came under heavy fire after several controversial cases, including one in 2013 where RBC used the program to outsource work that had been done by Canadians.

http://ipolitics.ca/2016/08/11/now-trudeaus-got-a-temporary-foreign-worker-problem/

Edited August 20, 2016 by Argus

[TimG]

The previous Conservative government had significantly expanded the temporary foreign worker program and came under heavy fire after several controversial cases, including one in 2013 where RBC used the program to outsource work that had been done by Canadians.

Except, Argus, now that Trudeau the saint does it all progressives will line up endorsing TFWs and calling anyone who opposes it xenophobic and racist. Edited August 20, 2016 by TimG

[dialamah]

Except, Argus, now that Trudeau the saint does it all progressives will line up endorsing TFWs and calling anyone who opposes it xenophobic and racist.

Although, honestly, I didn't see what the big deal was when Harper had TFW programs; the company I worked for at that time took full advantage of TFWs. It seems more likely that nationalistic types were concerned about that, and that is usually the more conservative people isn't it?

[Argus]

Although, honestly, I didn't see what the big deal was when Harper had TFW programs; the company I worked for at that time took full advantage of TFWs. It seems more likely that nationalistic types were concerned about that, and that is usually the more conservative people isn't it?

Nationalist people? You mean people who think it's insane to let in hundreds of thousands of foreigners to do jobs here when there are hundreds of thousands of unemployed Canadians?

[cybercoma]

Oh look. The zero sum fallacy again.

[dialamah]

Nationalist people? You mean people who think it's insane to let in hundreds of thousands of foreigners to do jobs here when there are hundreds of thousands of unemployed Canadians?

Lots of the jobs foreigners do can't be filled by Canadians because they don't have the training or education. For example, engineers who specialize in marine engineering and naval architecture are in short supply. There is only one University in Canada who offers those degrees. There are also jobs that most Canadians will avoid because they lack status - cleaning office tower bathrooms, for example.

Vice did a segment on Alabama's anti-immigrant law and it was a failure. Alabama lost revenue and employers couldn't get enough Americans to do the jobs the (illegal) immigrants were doing. What makes you think it would be any different here.

http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/what-alabamas-failed-anti-immigration-law-can-teach-us-about-donald-trump

[Argus]

Lots of the jobs foreigners do can't be filled by Canadians because they don't have the training or education.

Lots? There are a few, but I've already said that government should be remedying that by ensuring proper skills training for Canadians to fill those jobs, not simply taking the easy road and letting employers hire foreigners to work here. Those foreigners spend as little as they possibly can here, for they need to send that money home. Having hundreds of thousands of them work here is a drain on Canada.

Mind you, I'm not really certain you care about that.

[TimG]

Lots of the jobs foreigners do can't be filled by Canadians because they don't have the training or education.

TFWs are perfectly reasonable in a number of cases. But recently companies have been abusing them. For example. the Royal Bank planned to fire the qualified workers it already had and replaced them with cheaper TFWs. In another case, a Chinese company claimed it could not find or train Canadians to work in mines. These are the examples that I think any reasonable person should have a problem with.

[dialamah]

TFWs are perfectly reasonable in a number of cases. But recently companies have been abusing them. For example. the Royal Bank planned to fire the qualified workers it already had and replaced them with cheaper TFWs. In another case, a Chinese company claimed it could not find or train Canadians to work in mines. These are the examples that I think any reasonable person should have a problem with.

Proven cases of abuse, yes. But some instances of companies (or workers) abusing the system doesn't make the system itself wrong or mean that bajillions of Canadians are unemployed because of immigration.

[Argus]

TFWs are perfectly reasonable in a number of cases.

Aside from agriculture, in very few. If we have a shortage in some skills areas then we ought to be training people to fill them, not importing foreigners.

[bush_cheney2004]

Aside from agriculture, in very few. If we have a shortage in some skills areas then we ought to be training people to fill them, not importing foreigners.

Maybe, but some provinces invest more effort in recruiting foreigners for skills shortages...like nursing. Must be cheaper and faster to import people than to train and certify more Canadians, some who would just leave Canada anyway (brain drain).

http://www.ontarioimmigration.ca/en/working/OI_HOW_WORK_NURSE.html

http://www.healthstaff.org/nursingjobscanada.html

[Argus]

Maybe, but some provinces invest more effort in recruiting foreigners for skills shortages...like nursing. Must be cheaper and faster to import people than to train and certify more Canadians, some who would just leave Canada anyway (brain drain).

It's certainly easier, and if you're lazy and don't want to invest anything then that's the way to go. The Ontario government's vast incompetence in every aspect of governing, including health care and education, is well known.

[Argus]

An article in the Globe today details the increasing inspection of employers under the temporary foreign worker program - because of the Tory changes made in response to public anger. It also includes a quote from McCallum to the effect the changes were too harsh and needed to be rolled back.

Among the companies noted for violating the rules is a trucking company. The company representative says there's a shortage of truckers in Canada. This is exactly the kind of nonsensical argument we hear to support importing foreigners to do jobs. Trucking is not so complicated a job you can't train people to do it fairly quickly and easily. If there is a shortage it's because the companies aren't paying enough to attract workers. This is how supply and demand is supposed to work. This is how capitalism is supposed to work. A shortage causes employers to pay more which results in an increasing number of workers.

The temporary foreign worker program is, in too many cases, being used to short-circuit this, suppressing wages which in turn justifies more importation of foreign workers. And the Liberals are expanding it...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/federal-inspections-of-temporary-foreign-worker-program-on-rise/article31484544/

[Argus]

Because that's what the data on graph suggests. Also... I have read posts where you ALSO critisize Harper for growing the guest worker program. Gonna walk away from those now?

Why would I walk away from my being totally consistent about my opposition to the TFW program or any variation thereof? The graph ends in 2011 and is utterly irrelevant to a discussion on allowing in temporary foreign workers today.

And as opposed to my constancy, attacking this program under both parties, you are now actively defending it under the Liberals.

Also this entire TFW discussion is in the wrong topic. There is already a topic discussing foreign workers, which I started. This topic is about radicalization. If you want to discuss it further take it to that topic.