Boges Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 I really want to work out in that small women's only portion of my gym. It's outright sexism that I can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poochy Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 Gender segregated bathrooms, showers, locker rooms, and sports, but not pools. That's the line, eh? Are you trying to make a point by purposefully obtuse? Can you not see how dumb of a comparison that is and how broken it would be if you believed it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poochy Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 There is also a difference between accommodating Canadian values and trying to enforce racist policies. Umm not accommodating more ridiculous religious practices has nothing to do with racism, in this country we are supposed to want to treat women equally, those who don't want that should gtfo, same for those who support them imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Anthony Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 Folks, Please avoid thread drift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 (edited) I saw this case of at the University of Regina: So what do you think of this kind of accommodation? Is it "reasonable accommodation" or unreasonable? My thoughts: There has to be a line between reasonable and unreasonable accommodation. We're obviously not going to start allowing stonings and honour-killing or female genital mutilation for the sake of "religious freedom". There needs to be a line, and IMO this crosses the line. This particular ultra-conservative belief is against Canadian values, and we shouldn't be allowing segregation based on race nor based on gender. At some point, people from foreign cultures need to adapt to Canadian culture if they're going to live here and integrate here. It's against the freedom of the non-Muslim boys and girls to be free to associate with people of any sex. What I'll find unreasonable is that if folks who claim to fight for equality and for women rights.....would be agreeable to this lunacy! To even entertain that there's a possibility to accomodate such arrangement in this society, is not only unreasonable. We're talking lunacy ruling over our society! Edited August 8, 2016 by betsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 To even entertain that there's a possibility to accomodate such arrangement in this society, is not only unreasonable. We're talking lunacy ruling over our society! What do you think of Christian schools segregating boys and girls? Is that different? Why is it different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderfish Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 (edited) What do you think of Christian schools segregating boys and girls? Is that different? Why is it different? It's different because a parents make a conscious decision to enroll their kid into a Christian School. if you aren't comfortable with the terms of the enrollment you can decide not to enroll them. this is understood prior to this decision being made. In this case it was a public coed program that was altered to accommodate religious diversity for the new refugees, without prior input or discussion with parents. It was exclusion for the sake of some bogus perceived diversity. Does religion or religious accommodation for a few at the expense of everyone else have any place in a public, non-secular institution or program? Edited August 8, 2016 by Spiderfish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 (edited) I think this was a knee jerk decision to try to show a warm welcome for the refugees. I think it is wrong to change the rules that Canadians expect and embrace (co-ed swims). Given that these kids are fairly young and will soon be imbedded deep in Canadian culture, might as well start them off at this young age even if it's uncomfortable for the parents. We certainly don't want to encourage isolation as we see happening in Europe but we don't want to send a message to these kids that swimming co-ed is wrong. Edited August 8, 2016 by WestCoastRunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 (edited) It's different because a parents make a conscious decision to enroll their kid into a Christian School. if you aren't comfortable with the terms of the enrollment you can decide not to enroll them. this is understood prior to this decision being made.That's the only difference. I agree that it shouldn't happen. My question is more around segregation in general. If a Muslim parent wanting the sexes segregated is "lunacy", is that also true for Christian parents who choose segregated schools? I think it's a backwards practice and isn't good for development as a person. But I hold that view for segregated schools as well. Do you? Or Betsy? Edited August 8, 2016 by The_Squid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nerve Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 (edited) I saw this case of at the University of Regina: So what do you think of this kind of accommodation? Is it "reasonable accommodation" or unreasonable? My thoughts: There has to be a line between reasonable and unreasonable accommodation. We're obviously not going to start allowing stonings and honour-killing or female genital mutilation for the sake of "religious freedom". There needs to be a line, and IMO this crosses the line. This particular ultra-conservative belief is against Canadian values, and we shouldn't be allowing segregation based on race nor based on gender. At some point, people from foreign cultures need to adapt to Canadian culture if they're going to live here and integrate here. It's against the freedom of the non-Muslim boys and girls to be free to associate with people of any sex. Who cares, their business their business. If they want to cater to a specific religion whether it is a restaurant serving non pork only or no meat and cheese together, or letting women swim alone, or only letting couples into a swingers club it is their choice. People that go, oh my gosh they are accommodating their practices need to wake the hell up and realize that businesses are allowed to cater services to one group and not others. Affirmative actions, as much as you hate it, or providing services for minorities is constitutionally protected. What you cannot do is discriminate if you are government or a government agency on protected grounds. If this was not muslims all you islamaphobes would not give a flyng f. If it is not illegal who cares. If male circumcision is not illegal any other surgical practice that removes stimulating tissue. Fact is it is all discrimination and the government has no place in it. Where it matters is that private individuals have the right to provide lawful services or not and for people to opt to purchase those goods or services. It is all just cultural bias and you people are just ignorant that people do things you do not. When people grow up and let people live their life if it does not infringe on others then we can live together until then anyone who says someone else cannot do something in their private life is the problem. Stop telling other people how to live their life unless they ask. I think a lot of this has to do with missionary spirit and the need to tell people the right way to live. I understand that but you need to recognize where the door starts and the door ends. Sharing is not forcing, and advising is best done where people ask for advice. There is a conflict here. I think there are public mediums that exist to preach or for freedom of expression. We need to accept other people choose to live how they live, and they should be able to provide services to themselves and not other people if they cater those services to a specific person. The basis of discriminating grounds should end where the public ends. Private business should be able to cater services to specific clientel. If this does not comprise a hate crime, or incitement it shouldnt matter. Yes in fact it does open the door to discrimination, and private businesses should be able to pick and choose as far as the law allows. Where that is is generally human rights codes. The whole basis is HUMAN DIGNITY http://www.ohrc.on.ca/en/policy-preventing-discrimination-because-gender-identity-and-gender-expression/13-preventing-and-responding-discrimination IMO its stupid we should all be able to walk around naked on a hot day. Reality check aint happening any time soon. People are prudes whether it is amish sex, jewish adversion to meat and dairy, and or muslim adversion to bacon, hindu mcdonalds or burger king, fact is... people are different and we draw the line at interfering in other peoples lives in ways that make them feel violated. You know there is reason, yes it is all stupid, but it is their beleifs and that is what matters. As long as our lives are not infringed live and let live. Edited August 9, 2016 by nerve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 (edited) That's the only difference. I agree that it shouldn't happen. My question is more around segregation in general. If a Muslim parent wanting the sexes segregated is "lunacy", is that also true for Christian parents who choose segregated schools? I think it's a backwards practice and isn't good for development as a person. But I hold that view for segregated schools as well. Do you? Or Betsy? Aren't there also secular private schools that segregate genders?Boarding Schools etc. Edited August 9, 2016 by Boges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted August 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 Aren't there also secular private schools that segregate genders? Boarding Schools etc. The thing is that some cultures have segregation at virtually all times, and when you start catering to it, it becomes a norm. We're not talking girl guides vs boy scouts, it's a way of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted August 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 (edited) Looking back at it, I might have been too harsh. I mean, firstly these are kids who just want to swim. On top of that, they're refugees trying to adapt to a new country and culture, losing their homes and communities and sometimes loved one, with some of them going through who knows what kind of nightmares back home. We're talking kids and families who've been through hell for pete's sake, and the kids just want some leisure time where they can interact with other kids & have fun and make friends etc.. So a more "reasonable accommodation" might be to allow certain time(s) in the day for segregated swims so that these refugee children can interact with other Canadian and Syrian kids, and the other times have regular swims where these refugees can participate or not as they choose. And then next year, after the refugee kids have been able to adapt a bit to Canadian culture and meet some friends, the camp goes back to non-segregated swims. Edited August 9, 2016 by Moonlight Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 Aren't there also secular private schools that segregate genders? Boarding Schools etc. There's all kinds of gender segregation in our society but it's apparently only a problem for some people on this forum when it's Muslims asking for it. The same people want to be able to examine people's genitals before they enter a public washroom though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 Not me. I think it stinks regardless of who wants to discriminate based on sex because their religion tells them to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 "Because their religion tells them to" Nice qualifier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted August 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 (edited) There's all kinds of gender segregation in our society but it's apparently only a problem for some people on this forum when it's Muslims asking for it. The same people want to be able to examine people's genitals before they enter a public washroom though. It's not the segregation that's the crux of the problem. It's the reason for it. Certain Muslims don't believe men and women outside the family/home should interact together. This isn't a belief I'm generally willing to tolerate or make special accommodations for. If you want boys/girls only swimming, fine. If you want it because you believe males and females should never interact with each other then I'm sorry but I disagree. If you believe it's sinful for males to see other females in a bathing suit then don't go swimming in a community setting. We shouldn't be accommodating ultra-conservative religious people for ridiculous things. We shouldn't stop playing Led Zeppelin in public spaces because a minority of conservative Christian wackjobs think rock is Satan's music. Edited August 9, 2016 by Moonlight Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 "Because their religion tells them to" Nice qualifier. Do you not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 Ah thoughtcrime. It's okay to ask for segregation as long as it's for a reason you deem okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 How are they ever going to learn to function in a modern society if we just keep letting them act like they're back in the middle ages? -k How have the Mennonites functioned in Canada since the 1700's? Sheesh! And whose business is it? People can live the way they choose. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poochy Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 How have the Mennonites functioned in Canada since the 1700's? Sheesh! And whose business is it? People can live the way they choose. . The Mennonites segregate themselves and they don't ask that they be able to live like the rest of us while the rest of us accommodate their extreme beliefs. This is not difficult. or complicated, I would think that anyone could understand the simple difference, think about it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 Ah thoughtcrime. It's okay to ask for segregation as long as it's for a reason you deem okay. I just don't like the idea of a religion making decisions for people who aren't of that religion. You're okay with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 "Because their religion tells them to" Nice qualifier. Given the OP, is it odd to have that as a qualifier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 What do you think of Christian schools segregating boys and girls? Is that different? Why is it different? Where are they now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 (edited) Looking back at it, I might have been too harsh. I mean, firstly these are kids who just want to swim. On top of that, they're refugees trying to adapt to a new country and culture, losing their homes and communities and sometimes loved one, with some of them going through who knows what kind of nightmares back home. We're talking kids and families who've been through hell for pete's sake, and the kids just want some leisure time where they can interact with other kids & have fun and make friends etc.. So a more "reasonable accommodation" might be to allow certain time(s) in the day for segregated swims so that these refugee children can interact with other Canadian and Syrian kids, and the other times have regular swims where these refugees can participate or not as they choose. And then next year, after the refugee kids have been able to adapt a bit to Canadian culture and meet some friends, the camp goes back to non-segregated swims. No.....it's best that they bite the bullet at the get go. Pressure should be made to parents to let their children mingle with Canadian kids, after all....they're here now! If they truly want to adapt to this new country, show it now. Edited August 9, 2016 by betsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts