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That's just not a fact. Terrorism was actually in decline since the 90's rapidly until after the GWOT started.

Let's see your cite. What data lies behind the pretty charts? Where does it come from? Who gathered it? What does it mean? What is included?

Because I'm sure not going to believe the pretty pictures on a blog which talks about holocaust denial and the illuminati.

No my response is typical of a sentient being that lives in an evidence based reality. It has nothing to do with being a bleeding heart liberal. Intelligence agencies around the world are saying the exact same thing I am.

Then you can cite them too.

As for being a bleeding heart liberal, thats you. You want to run around using global socialism trying to solve all the worlds problems, at our expense. I'm saying we should back off and let them fight if they want to fight. I dont really care if they kill each other. Tell me REALLY which is the more conservative stance? Your knee-jerk neo liberal socialist do-gooder stance? RIGHT.

I don't give a shit if they kill each other either. But unlike you I can see the problems inherent in a hands off approach. Just as a start, given the Saudis keep pumping billions into proselytizing their own extremist views, I see that spreading throughout the Muslim world. Mind you, it's been doing that for twenty five years anyway, because the West has been hands off towards the Saudis. I also see nuclear weapons spreading throughout that region, and see them getting into the hands of what is already a large population of extremists who hate us. I can see ISIS growing and spreading out to encompass the entire region except for Iran. And I can see them acquiring nukes and pushing their boundaries in our direction.

You seem to have this idea that if we just back away the violence will be contained to that region. I have no such confidence, and that doesn't even take into account what you think happens to western economies if all the oil producers in that region go up in a ball of flame.

And btw, the Saudis are also funding mosques and schools in Europe and North America, so you can forget your island of safety.

Edited by Argus
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You're comparing an orchestrated group of Saudi citizens coming to the US specifically to carry out an attack to these weekly occurrences where some nutjob goes on a self-declared jihad?

Yes, I will take the world of pre-Iraq invasion over this any day. You don't?

Except this is exactly the kind of attack ISIS has been asking of it's followers, of course these people are lunatics, but why can't you understand that it's irrelevant? There are lots of people who are willing to do evil, whether they are clinically insane is irrelevant when they are being inspired by evil bastards somewhere else to run people down in a god damned truck. The point is they wouldn't be running people down were it not for the evil they have subscribed to. Honestly, at what point do some of you stop making these ridiculous excuses and false equivalencies, stop defending your belief in the world as your ideology tells you it should be, it isn't, and never was or will be, no matter how hard you wish for it.

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Let's see your cite. What data lies behind the pretty charts? Where does it come from? Who gathered it? What does it mean? What is included?

Because I'm sure not going to believe the pretty pictures on a blog which talks about holocaust denial and the illuminati.

Those graphs can be found all over the web. They are built using Starts open source database which can be found here... https://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/

The same conclusions are also backed up by the WITS database, and an analysis on that can be found here. http://www.terrorismanalysts.com/pt/index.php/pot/article/view/88/html

Both sources show the decline in the 90's, and then the sharp increase after the GWOT started.

Theres also a good read on how the incredibly stupid ideas you support have failed, and why... Again based on START data.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/u-s-war-on-terror-has-increased-terrorism/5355073

What does it mean? What is included?

Funny questions from a guy that made the claim "attacks were already increasing rapidly", without providing any evidence what-so-ever to support it.

You seem to have this idea that if we just back away the violence will be contained to that region. I have no such confidence

Well with all due respect you live in a fantasy world and you simply believe what fits your narrative. Its a rather silly point in either case though because we know that the 6 trillion dollars wasted on the GWOT has increased the amount of terrorism and terrorists, and radicalized millions of more people. So even if it was true that terrorists would still target us if we "backed off" we might as well have saved the money, and the dozens of thousands of western soldiers the GWOT has killed or permanently maimed.

Edited by dre
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We simply needed to be nicer to them, why can't you see that?

Its not about being nice to them. It was reasonable to try to kill people connected with 911 and other attacks against the west. But you do it surgically and cost effectively. Spending trillions of dollars blowing up two countries and then rebuilding them is not an intelligent approach. Operation: OOPS! in Iraq has created a whole new breeding ground for terrorism and gave birth to groups like ISIL. Afghanistan isn't much better.

Instead the archiects of the GWOT and its hapless brain-dead supporters played right into the terrorists hands.

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In Pakistan, they had the madrassas and also Afghan refugees who became the Taliban, Zia's program of Islamization and a massive rise in population.

Its not so much Islam that's the problem, its foreign occupation. The vast majority of terrorist attacks are directly connected to military occupation.

More than 95 percent of all suicide attacks are in response to foreign occupation, according to extensive research [co-authored by James K. Feldman - former professor of decision analysis and economics at the Air Force Institute of Technology and the School of Advanced Airpower Studies] that we conducted at the University of Chicago’s Project on Security and Terrorism, where we examined every one of the over 2,200 suicide attacks across the world from 1980 to the present day. As the United States has occupied Afghanistan and Iraq, which have a combined population of about 60 million, total suicide attacks worldwide have risen dramatically — from about 300 from 1980 to 2003, to 1,800 from 2004 to 2009. Further, over 90 percent of suicide attacks worldwide are now anti-American. The vast majority of suicide terrorists hail from the local region threatened by foreign troops, which is why 90 percent of suicide attackers in Afghanistan are Afghans.

Terrorism flourishes in places where people are controlled by authorities they don't accept. Palestine, Iraq, Cheznia, Afghanistan, Syria, Northern Ireland... The LTTE suicide campaign against the Sinhalese was almost purely secular.

You have FARC, EA, ETA, Shining Path, RIRA, UDA, NPA, Aum Simrikio, Cahne Chai, the LRA. None of those are muslim groups.

But all those groups, and muslim groups as well have one thing in common. They are subject to authorities they don't accept.

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Its not so much Islam that's the problem, its foreign occupation. The vast majority of terrorist attacks are directly connected to military occupation.

I would say Islam is ONE of the problems, esp. Sunni Islam. Many of the non-Muslim groups you cite, e.g. IRA, UDA, Eta, have limited goals in a strictly defined territory. So the Chechen resistance at home is part of this tradition, but attacking people in other countries who have nothing to do with that conflict is quite different.

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Those graphs can be found all over the web. They are built using Starts open source database which can be found here... https://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/

Both sources show the decline in the 90's, and then the sharp increase after the GWOT started.

Even your own chart above doesn't show that. It shows a decline in the 90s then an upsurge leading to 2001, then a respite as the numbers fall, then a sharp upsurge as the US invade Iraq. But the number of 'global' terrorist incidents since then have been distorted by the fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Well with all due respect you live in a fantasy world and you simply believe what fits your narrative. Its a rather silly point in either case though because we know that the 6 trillion dollars wasted on the GWOT has increased the amount of terrorism and terrorists, and radicalized millions of more people. So even if it was true that terrorists would still target us if we "backed off" we might as well have saved the money, and the dozens of thousands of western soldiers the GWOT has killed or permanently maimed.

Not fighting back against terrorism is never going to be an option. And these people were radicalized by the Saudis, not the war on terrorism. The most radicalized nation out there is probably Pakistan, which was never attacked, and Saudi Arabia, which was also never attacked. And the terrorists in north Africa are certainly not operating out of anger that the west invaded Iraq.

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Its not so much Islam that's the problem, its foreign occupation. The vast majority of terrorist attacks are directly connected to military occupation.

Neither Iraq nor Afghanistan nor Syria are under foreign occupation. Neither is Pakistan.

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I think there are many factors in why these attacks keep happening.One big reason is the hatred of everything Western democracies stand for by Islamic radicals.And I think they have a fair bit of support among Muslims world wide.Which leaders will tell it like it is?Who will stay politically correct and denounce Islamophobia as the problem?

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Countries like France and Britain are screwed beyond redemption. As appealing as it may appear to some people to think that France just throws out all North-Africans, anyone with a slight knowledge of French history realises that is just fantasy-talk.

A country like Finland could choose to follow a different path but our leaders are spineless worms and quislings of the worst kind.

To put the previous in a less emoted manner the Finnish politicians really seem like they are not in charge at all but obey orders coming from outside the country. Is it Brussels, Berlin or even Washington they are taking their orders from is unclear but they are not masters in their own house. Politicians like that are usually called puppets. No reason to call them anything else in this context.

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So what, Muslims are really big on vengeance it's our own dumb luck for not giving that more consideration.

Every bully eventually bites off more than they can chew.

You make sweeping generalizations about Muslims as you do Jews and Israelis and for the same reason, I call you out as a bigot and

ignorant for such stereotypes as "Muslims are real big on vengeance (sic)".

Its what you do insert two line bigoted statements with no basis of reasoning, simple subjective insults.

You compound your ignorant bigoted statements with irrational statements such as the above suggesting "we", i.e, the West, did not give more consideration. You throw out the aside at the end of your bigoted statement. It makes zero sense. Literally you complain the West is to blame for

Muslims being violent because we don't acquiesce to their desire to seek revenge.

What crap. You don't think before you spew. How would appeasing a person bent on revenge prevent violence? Um uh um uh-you use logic?

Right.

The bottom line is you spew and give no thought in your comments. The bottom line is the terrorism rampant in the Middle East is initiated

by literally thousands of factions, each with their own cell leader, many inspired by various extremist interpretations of Shiite and Sunni Islam,

some based on Alawite, Kurd, Yazidi, Druze, Assyrian, Berber, Zoroastrean, Bahaii, Jewish, Christian gay, feminist and other issues that

mix in conflict with certain religious ideologies. Its a sea of muck of ideologies and you can't fathom their ever changing constellations

so you spew out a fart, Muslims want revenge.

Crap.

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The British are probably the best in the world when it comes to intelligence services such as detecting terrorism and foiling terrorist-plots. They received a lot of experience from the IRA in the 80's.

The French are not nearly as good and that's probably why terrorists keep on targetting France. For the French authorities Paris-attacks was bad but especially bad was that a similar attack happened again so short time after. It was a humiliation for the French authorities.

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The French are not nearly as good and that's probably why terrorists keep on targetting France. For the French authorities Paris-attacks was bad but especially bad was that a similar attack happened again so short time after. It was a humiliation for the French authorities.

It's also a lot harder to get into the UK than it is to get into France.

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I would say Islam is ONE of the problems, esp. Sunni Islam. Many of the non-Muslim groups you cite, e.g. IRA, UDA, Eta, have limited goals in a strictly defined territory. So the Chechen resistance at home is part of this tradition, but attacking people in other countries who have nothing to do with that conflict is quite different.

Most who complain about Islam make no distinction between the different factions of Islam. It's all lumped into one for the purpose of attempting to make a talking point.

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The British are probably the best in the world when it comes to intelligence services such as detecting terrorism and foiling terrorist-plots. They received a lot of experience from the IRA in the 80's.

The French are not nearly as good and that's probably why terrorists keep on targetting France. For the French authorities Paris-attacks was bad but especially bad was that a similar attack happened again so short time after. It was a humiliation for the French authorities.

And yet they could not prevent the bombings in London on 7/7 2005 bombings. Even when the intelligence services were running drills that day for that same scenario.

"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEbUQiYOGjU"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1355639/Counter-terrorist-training-exercise-days-7-7-entirely-coincidence.html

Police completed a terror training exercise which envisaged an attack on London's transport network just days before the 7/7 atrocity, an inquest heard today.

During the 'table top' drill, officers were asked to respond to imaginary bombings at Waterloo, Embankment and St James's Park Underground stations.

But there was absolutely no intelligence at the time to suggest such an attack was imminent, the hearing was told.

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Is there a faction of Islam that are not followers of Mohammed?

There are many different sects. Those who complain about Islam are sure to make the distinction between those who do bad things and those who do not, regardless of sect.

I'm fairly sure the schism came after Mohammad, though.

Edited by bcsapper
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