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What's your point?

Mohammed ordered his followers to kill non-Muslims, and he led by example. People who complain about Islam, and "lump all Muslims together" are particularly concerned about that.

There are many different sects.

Are there any that do not consider themselves followers of Mohammed?

I'm fairly sure the schism came after Mohammad, though.

Considering Mohammed created Islam, it would have to.

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Most who complain about Islam make no distinction between the different factions of Islam. It's all lumped into one for the purpose of attempting to make a talking point.

How many times will you use that as an excuse to avoid talking about MUSLIM terrorism.

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Mohammed ordered his followers to kill non-Muslims, and he led by example. People who complain about Islam, and "lump all Muslims together" are particularly concerned about that.

Are there any that do not consider themselves followers of Mohammed?

Considering Mohammed created Islam, it would have to.

There were followers of Ishmael before him. The legends say Muhammed's wife wrote down what he used to speak out in his sleep on leaves, The leaves were then re-written into the passages they claim ended up in the Koran..at least so the legends say.. So the people who rewrote what he said, you can imagine had to edit what he said, how many times no one knows. Then it would have taken centuries for others to shape the religion and create it pretty much like in Christianity after Jesus died.

So its based on his teachings, but he himself porbably had no idea how his words would be reinvented to be placed in the Koran to then

start the religion it did. For all we know he would feud with today's Muslims.

What is known is he smoked hash all the time so much of what he said in his sleep is polite for what he blurted out in a stoned stupor.

The actual Koran like the BIble, consists of edited manuscripts from writers we do not know who would have added or re-written to suit the politics and values of the day.

Islam is about where Christianity was in the days of burning witches. The majority of its followers,80% remain illiterate and therefore dependent on their mullahs or imams to tell them what the Koran says. The mullahs and imams have no central education system-they are in effect self proclaimed scholars of many schools of interpretation even when they are in the same sect. There's no central organ to dispense the one interpretation of it. It varies between mullah to mullah, village to village, town to town.

There is no consensus as to how to interpret it. Islam has not evolved in a society where the masses critically question it just like when people who questioned Islam were accused of being heretics.

Its centuries away from a time when its followers read and write and question. Without the critical reasoning ability, followers of Islam will not challenge its current leaders.

As for the violent terrorist interpretations, many on this forum are quick to point out, not all Muslims are violent or terrorists. Of course not, but the fact is prevailing or mainstream Islam no matter who teaches it is not tolerant. It teaches non Muslims are infidel, women are inferior, gays going to hell, and it does most certainly provide intolerant rigid values one is NOT to question.

To pretend its a religion that has many peaceful people is a liberal guilt vision. The fact is when you are Muslim and peaceful and progressive in value you are endangered and a minority and certainly don't feel supported by trendy leftists. Trendy letfists project their own trendy leftist values on to rigid fundamental Muslims to make them seem less "frightening" to them and in so doing alienate the actual progressive Muslims.

We see it all the time on this forum. Liberal guilt leftist trendies can't handle the notion that mainstream Muslims are NOT terrorists are not leftists at all but as Besty said... fundamentalists no different than the ones trendy leftists hiss at.

Trendy leftists would be the first to hiss and piss their pants over fundamental Christian views but in the next breath defend the very same views in Muslims.

It is a bloody joke. Trendy leftists support in fact rigid fascist Islamic followers in the name of tolerance causing actual progressive Muslims to roll their eyes and detach from the dialogue.

We have to challenge Islam just as Christians did Christianity and Jews, Judaism. Christians and Jews challenged their religions and still do demanding changes and reforms. In the Islamic world, the reformist movement is still a fraction of Muslims and trendy leftists ironically have thrown them under the bus because they are so busy defending mainstream Islam not knowing what it stands for.

Give me an hour with the trendy leftists on this board, one hour with them in Yemen,. Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Gaza, West Bank, Iran, parts of the Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, one hour. There heads would be cut off not by terrorists but the very damn people they think they understand.

These trendy leftists have no clue how many different schools of thoughts, sects, divisions there are in Islam or what is taught. Not a damn clue.

The fact is every day Muslims terrorize each other just as they are now doing in Europe-trendy leftists have no clue how in every day life Islam is used to terrorize Muslims and non Muslims on an individual not just a collective basis..., not a clue....they can't wrap their heads around why Islam attracts nut cases.

Look at the drivel on this board so obsessed with generalizing about Islam those same people will not acknowledge or discuss the aspects of Islam that run directly contrary to trendy leftist views.

Look at these leftist trendy "contributors" as they flip and flop over themselves pointing out not all Muslims are terrorist and then in the next breath support the flood of passages that depict Jews who believe in state identity automatically as being terrorist while seeing no issue with Muslim sharia law states discriminating against non Muslims.

This board is full of arm chair experts who have never lived in the Muslim world and rely on second hand stories and their own feel good ideologies. The boogy man aint gonna boogy if we give him leftist traits don't you know. The boogy man is only a boogy because we made him that way. What a crock. The violence, the terrorism, the rigid values that breed intolerance in Islam have created a constant series of civil wars and conflicts since the Koran was published and even before then, Muhammed was a violent man. This idea he walked around and hugged people is a crock.

Most religious leaders we follow were violent. Jesus was one exception supposedly but one could argue there are even passages depicting him at times as rigid and intolerant and losing his temper. We had to and still have to challenge those who take Judaism or Christianity and use it as a method to justify violence. We do it. However to it with Islam, and listen to the leftist chatter-oh don't do that, not all Muslims are bad. What righteous crap.

Humans are primates. Beneath al the religious crap, is primate behaviour. Religion was created to try repress primate behaviour. There's a continual struggle between our primal identities and the supposed rules we learn to repress them,

Donald Trump's just a recycled alpha male making noises and jumping up and down.

Hilary? She's an alpha female. It happens. They evolve as a counter measure in primates to balance alpha males who become cannibal.

Y'all ask me, trendy leftists are chattering little spider monkeys trying to suck up to Alpha Males they are afraid of with pathetic passive aggressive attempts to worship them.

Ape packs clash. That is what is going on. Apes clashing. As our water and food resources shrink, apes are on the move threatening other ape domains and the survival of the fittest is coming out.

Apes clashing over territory is all it is.

There are only two questions two answer;

1-are their enough bananas to go around for all...

2-when the other pack comes you gonna run up to them for a hug expecting one back or

brace yourself for a violent encounter..

In regards to 1, yes but we are so busy pissing on the bananas its making our food sources contaminated.

In regards to 2, some of us have witnessed the violent encounters-its why we steer clear

of trendy leftists-they are the first to die in any trerrorist attack or war-their denial makes them fat sitting

ducks for crocodiles.

Edited by Rue
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The British are probably the best in the world when it comes to intelligence services such as detecting terrorism and foiling terrorist-plots. They received a lot of experience from the IRA in the 80's.

The French are not nearly as good and that's probably why terrorists keep on targetting France. For the French authorities Paris-attacks was bad but especially bad was that a similar attack happened again so short time after. It was a humiliation for the French authorities.

That is difficult to assess. British intelligence was utterly humiliated after the war by communist spies who kept on popping up - I suspect we don't know all their names yet - whereas the French were more effective in that particular area. The IRA was always a small group, centred in a small region and with limited aims. The French are facing something much larger.

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How many times will you use that as an excuse to avoid talking about MUSLIM terrorism.

I talk about TERRORISM, and not being specific about Islam, because that is counter productive to the dialogue.

Because there are only a few that talk about the Islamic terrorism that has FULL support of the West. But when we talk about that, some do not even mention Islam. The west fully supports Saudi Arabia and the terrorism they cause across the M.E, but we only hear about the terrorism from Iran from certain members.

When you decide to jump on board and call out Islamic terrorism backed by the west, we can talk. At that point, I would not even say it is Islamic terrorism, but Western terrorism. Let's use Syria as a perfect example of what I am talking about.

Edited by GostHacked
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