Former Israeli PM on Israel's credibility + Fascism

[Scott Mayers]

So there are less Jews than Arab at a given date so Jews aren't natives? That's only slightly bigoted...lol.

Archeology backs Jewish cultural connections to the region. Arabs are actually historical newcomers to the Levant in large numbers. Seventh century AD or so.

And the Jewish religious belief in their state was derived from Egypt. Egypt was the actual "promised land". What later became Israel was a remnant of the last era of the Egyptians.

To assert who 'owns' what in some past is moot and arrogant of those demanding they have some intrinsic link to it.

[DogOnPorch]

De-legitimizing Jews connection to the Middle East is disingenuous. But that's what it's all about...isn't it?

[herples]

You're the one trying to make Israel into the Nazis where I've clearly shown the Palestinian Cause's connection to the REAL ones.

You're only response to the existence of the Nazi Grand Mufti al-Husseini in this perfect picture of the poor Palestinian crushed by the evil jackboot of the Jews...errr...Zionists....is to deride the messenger.

The Mufti shared similar views about Jews with the Nazis and also collaborated it's a bit of a stretch to claim the Palestinian cause has connections to the Nazis when the cause goes back before Nazism.

[taxme]

Sorry...but that's not how it works. Canada's elected government(s) have consistently chosen to support Israel to be aligned with self and allied interests for the region. It is also quite a stretch to presume what other "western" nations should do as well.

It's a politicians duty in Canada that they must show that they are always with Israel. If they say otherwise publicly their political careers go down the tubes. When Bibi gives a speech in Congress he always gets a standing ovation, and it happens several times. If anyone does not stand up, like in Canada, their political career will be pretty much down the tubes. Every Prime Minister in Canada always says that they are with Israel. No choice.

[taxme]

Really? What gives someone a "connection to a region"? Does being born there not count? Are immigrants and children of immigrants in Canada not really Canadian, then?

Israeli Jews live in Israel and have as much right to be there as anyone. And they aren't going anywhere unless the Arabs ever win one of their long series of genocidal wars.

The Arabs would kick Israeli butt if it were not for America supporting them with billions of American tax dollars plus military equipment supplied to Israel by America. Take away Israels tanks, bombs, guns, fighter jets, and they would then be pretty much on par with the Palestinians. It would all come down to a stone fight because that is pretty much all the Palestinians have to fight with right now.

[taxme]

The new Israeli government, which is largely made up of ultra-nationalist and ultra-religious parties is being described as the most right-wing in Israel's history.

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/25793-former-israeli-pm-on-israels-credibility-fascism/page-3

This rogue nation is getting ready to self destruct. Make sure Canada is clear when the mushroom cloud appears.

I am afraid that if Israel self destructs then they just may try to take the rest of the world down with them. With all the nuclear weapons that they have at their disposal they could do a lot of damage, and aim a lot of those missiles at countries they don't like. Hopefully, Canada is not in their list of sites.

[bush_cheney2004]

The Arabs would kick Israeli butt if it were not for America supporting them with billions of American tax dollars plus military equipment supplied to Israel by America. Take away Israels tanks, bombs, guns, fighter jets, and they would then be pretty much on par with the Palestinians.

No they wouldn't, and never have. Israel would "kick" Canada's butt too, even though it has American military equipment.

[marcus]

Israeli Jews live in Israel and have as much right to be there as anyone.

Apparently they have more right to be there than anyone else. What's your point again?

Your plea for humanity and equality is great and all, but you have to realize how odd it sounds when in another breath you engage in advocating and excusing the racist and genocidal behaviour of Israel towards the Palestinians.

Edited May 26, 2016 by marcus

[Scott Mayers]

De-legitimizing Jews connection to the Middle East is disingenuous. But that's what it's all about...isn't it?

And "De-legitimizing (Muslims') connection to the Middle East is disingenuous." ...perhaps?

Those of your view are WHY such problems exist. You arrogantly believe in some X-Nationality or some set thereof, with some Anti-X-Nationality of some other set of people, treat ALL people everywhere as if all were as Nationalistic yourself, and then think the rest of us (majority) HAVE to found our own hatred-devised Nationalism in order to compete or die.

It's sad. Because the Nationalist will always prevail at the expense of the great VARIETY of people (most people are mixed race, mixed traditions, etc), we are ALL forced to buy those guns we don't like if only to prevent the next wave of haters, and, most inevitably, BECOME the very haters you imposed upon us! So you should actually have nothing to complain about those Muslim 'terrorists' since it is YOU who created them in your likeness!

Edited May 26, 2016 by Scott Mayers

[DogOnPorch]

The Arabs would kick Israeli butt if it were not for America supporting them with billions of American tax dollars plus military equipment supplied to Israel by America. Take away Israels tanks, bombs, guns, fighter jets, and they would then be pretty much on par with the Palestinians. It would all come down to a stone fight because that is pretty much all the Palestinians have to fight with right now.

Like in 1948, 1967 and 1973?

[DogOnPorch]

The Mufti shared similar views about Jews with the Nazis and also collaborated it's a bit of a stretch to claim the Palestinian cause has connections to the Nazis when the cause goes back before Nazism.

The Mufti was antisemitic from his childhood. But, he and Eichmann actually met before WW2...birds of a feather. The Mufti's first act after taking-over from his dead half-brother, Kamil, was to conduct the 1920 Nebi Musa Pogrom against the Jews living in the British Mandate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1920_Nebi_Musa_riots

The Nazi Party started in 1920, as well...

Edited May 26, 2016 by DogOnPorch

[taxme]

Like in 1948, 1967 and 1973?

Like in 1948, 1967 and 1973?

Read again what I said above.

[herples]

The Mufti was antisemitic from his childhood. But, he and Eichmann actually met before WW2...birds of a feather. The Mufti's first act after taking-over from his dead half-brother, Kamil, was to conduct the 1920 Nebi Musa Pogrom against the Jews living in the British Mandate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1920_Nebi_Musa_riots

The Nazi Party started in 1920, as well...

Nazi party and the Mufti shared a similar view towards the jews and that is where it ends. The Mufti I believe came to power after the Nevi Musa Riots and it was the British that put him in power to balance power between his family and another family called Nashashibi. Before WW II he met Heinrich Wolff and yet there is no evidence that the mufti influenced the Nazis. As you say he was anti Semitic from his childhood so it is doubtful the Nazis seriously influenced him in anyway as well.

[DogOnPorch]

From Eichmann's trial:

In the autumn of 1937, Adolf Eichmann and Herbert Hagen, previously Sturmbannfuehrer in Paris, who at that time worked in the Jewish Department of the SD, arranged a journey to Palestine and Egypt. This trip was intended to include, incidentally, securing of general information on Zionist questions, and also a visit to the Grand Mufti, and Dr. Reichert was to have acted as intermediary in arranging it. But the visit did not materialize since the British authorities restricted the stay of Eichmann and Hagen to 48 hours, despite their tourist visas. In Cairo the two of them then had discussions with Arab nationalists - amongst them a journalist from Jerusalem who belonged to the circle of the Grand Mufti.

After the Mufti al-Husseini arrived in Germany, he paid a visit to Himmler. A short while thereafter the Grand Mufti visited the director of the Jewish Department at the Gestapo Bureau IV, Obersturmbannfuehrer Adolf Eichmann, in his office in Berlin, 116 Kurfuerstenstrasse. I no longer remember the exact date of the visit. Possibly it was the end of 1941 or the beginning of 1942.

By chance I was with Eichmann in Berlin a few days later, when he told me in detail about this visit. Eichmann lectured to the Grand Mufti in his Map Room, where he had collected statistical accounts of the Jewish population of various European countries - he lectured in detail about the solution of the Jewish Question in Europe.

The Grand Mufti, according to him, was most impressed and said to Eichmann that he had already asked Himmler and had in fact secured Himmler's consent on this point, that a representative of Eichmann should come to Jerusalem as his personal adviser when he, the Grand Mufti, would go back after the victory of the Axis Powers. In that conversation Eichmann asked me whether I was not willing to accept the post. But I rejected in principle such Oriental adventures. Eichmann was greatly impressed by the personality of the Grand Mufti. He repeatedly said to me, both then and on a later occasion, that the Mufti had made a powerful impression on him, and also on Himmler, and that he had an acknowledged influence in Arab-Jewish affairs.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/e/eichmann-adolf/transcripts/Sessions/Session-016-03.html

Re: British appointment to Grand Mufti: yes, this officially took place in 1921. The British attempt to control him. The British ignored the moderate Nashashibi/Hashemite choice for the position in favour of Haj Amin al-Husseini...offering him a pardon right after the Nebi Musa Pogrom. The British tied their wagon to him right up until the Arab Revolt of 1936...then he became a wanted man in the Empire. I guess they figured he was the tough guy that was going to put the Zionists in their place...because they sure gave him numerous chances to behave and play ball while doing what they could to prevent Jewish immigration to the Mandate.

Edited May 26, 2016 by DogOnPorch

[DogOnPorch]

Read again what I said above.

If you knew anything about the history of the Arab-Israeli Wars, you'd know the Israelis bought what they didn't make themselves. The main exception to this was during the Gulf War where Israel was handed a lot of top shelf gear via the USA to not flatten Iraq like a pancake.

After the Camp David Accords were signed under Jimmy Carter, both Egypt and Israel got an annual credit to acquire US made weapons and equipment. Both countries accepted the Accords and Egypt and Israel have been at peace ever since.

Two groups refuse to make peace: the Syrians and the fellows who started the war...the Palestinian Arabs. Both still cling to the Khartoum Resolution in regards to Israel...from post Six Day War (1967).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khartoum_Resolution

Edited May 26, 2016 by DogOnPorch

[Argus]

Terrorism in that region is a product of Zionist ideology and policies, which in itself is terrorism.

Bigoted drivel.

[Argus]

This is another tread going the cheering for and against mode. While it may satisfy the mine good, yours bad crowd, I view the situation differently.

Nothing you have ever written even hints at even-handedness in your attitude towards that region. To pompously suggest others are cheering for or against while you are somehow neutral is the height of absurd posturing.

[Argus]

Irgun was created as a direct result of the Grand Mufti's terror campaign.

Shhhhh! You're not supposed to talk about Arab terrorism or their hatred of Jews! It's not fashionable!

[Argus]

The Irgun's first steps were in the aftermath of the Riots of 1929.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun

I'm correct, as usual.

Oh please! Everyone knows Wikipedia is a product of the world Zionist conspiracy! Only Al-Jazeera tells us the truth!

[Argus]

Terrible comparison. But you are free to make that comparison, the conclusion that you put forth is that Jews act a lot like Nazis these days.

Edit, Israel acts a lot like Nazi's,, would not want to be labeled as an anti-semtie here ..

How does Israel act like Nazis? Has it rounded up all the Arabs/Muslims and put them into camps for execution? Does it make them wear stars? Has it banned them from holding public office? Does it constantly denounce them? Let's have some evidence here, GH.

[Argus]

Ah so you agree the settlements are akin to Germany taking over Poland. Aka Nazi tactics.

Do you know anything at all about the German attack on Poland? I mean that literally. Anything?

[Argus]

According to the statistics, before the mass Zionist migration, in 1914 Palestine had a population of 657,000 Muslim Arabs, 81,000 Christian Arabs, and 59,000 Jews. Link

A large percentage of the Jews living in what is now Israel and in the Occupied Territories have no or very little connection to the region. They're mostly Europeans.

According to the stats millions of people have immigrated to Canada over the past fifty years. Are you saying they have no legitimacy and should all be expelled from Canada?

[Argus]

The Mufti shared similar views about Jews with the Nazis and also collaborated it's a bit of a stretch to claim the Palestinian cause has connections to the Nazis when the cause goes back before Nazism.

Cite?

[Argus]

It's a politicians duty in Canada that they must show that they are always with Israel. If they say otherwise publicly their political careers go down the tubes.

Really? Why would that be? There are way more Muslims in Canada than Jews.

[DogOnPorch]

Shhhhh! You're not supposed to talk about Arab terrorism or their hatred of Jews! It's not fashionable!

The Mufti practiced his own form of Zionism, as well. The Temple Mount was in ruins at the start of the 20th century. It was the Mufti that led the charge to get donations from the 'Muslim World' to rebuild the crumbling mosques and give them a gold plated face lift. The Mufti pocketed the change.

From the new gleaming Temple Mount, the Mufti promoted al-Aqsa/Jerusalem as Islam's Third Most Holy location (you might have heard that phrase) and asked good Arab Muslims to come to the Mandate to counter the growing Zionist presence.

Edited May 26, 2016 by DogOnPorch