bush_cheney2004 Posted January 29, 2017 Report Posted January 29, 2017 Just now, bcsapper said: I've always thought very highly of the USA. It's the main reason I care so much right now. Patronizing will get you nowhere. Can you believe that these same people thought George W. Bush was the end of the world ? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Guest Posted January 29, 2017 Report Posted January 29, 2017 1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Patronizing will get you nowhere. Can you believe that these same people thought George W. Bush was the end of the world ? Is it still patronizing if it's true? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 29, 2017 Report Posted January 29, 2017 Just now, bcsapper said: Is it still patronizing if it's true? Yes....America is the same as it ever was....Trump has changed nothing. Love it with its ugly warts...or not at all. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
CITIZEN_2015 Posted January 29, 2017 Report Posted January 29, 2017 2 minutes ago, bcsapper said: I've always thought very highly of the USA. It's the main reason I care so much right now. And what exactly is the reason. America's records on staging military coups overthrowing democratic governments (Iran, Chile as two examples) and installing their own corrupt dictator, selling arms and torture instruments to most oppressive regimes, war crimes in south east asia, supporting military dictatorships and keeping them in power to suck the blood of their people, Being allied to most stinky regimes like those of Saudi Arabia.....and the list goes on. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 29, 2017 Report Posted January 29, 2017 Just now, CITIZEN_2015 said: And what exactly is the reason. America's records on staging military coups overthrowing democratic governments (Iran, Chile as two examples) and installing their own corrupt dictator, selling arms and torture instruments to most oppressive regimes, war crimes in south east asia, supporting military dictatorships and keeping them in power to suck the blood of their people, Being allied to most stinky regimes like those of Saudi Arabia.....and the list goes on. Yep...and Canada is very dependent on the same nation. Shame !! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
CITIZEN_2015 Posted January 29, 2017 Report Posted January 29, 2017 2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Yep...and Canada is very dependent on the same nation. Shame !! Canada trades with the US but has never been involves directly in those or other atrocities. It was US government and the CIA who did all these and they may wish to call it democracy but they managed well to keep it a secret from American people as overwhelming majority were not aware of all these at all in th e80's and 90's. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 29, 2017 Report Posted January 29, 2017 Just now, CITIZEN_2015 said: Canada trades with the US but has never been involves directly in those or other atrocities. It was US government and the CIA who did all these and they may wish to call it democracy but they managed well to keep it a secret from American people as overwhelming majority were not aware of all these at all in th e80's and 90's. C'mon...don't shine me on. Canada has been complicit in all kinds of sordid affairs with the U.S. and other nations. The plot to kidnap Haiti's democratically elected president (Aristide) was hatched in Montreal....by the Liberals ! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted January 29, 2017 Report Posted January 29, 2017 40 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: $15 billion is a lot of money..and it is going to a Canadian subsidiary of General Dynamics for Canadian workers and Canadian government tax revenue. So much for Justin Trudeau and "human rights". This is a pretty valid point. Our hypocrisy is plainly evident when it comes to speaking out against tyrants on the one hand while empowering them with the other. Or is this as silly as pointing out environmentalists who drive their cars to climate change rallies? 1 Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
CITIZEN_2015 Posted January 29, 2017 Report Posted January 29, 2017 21 minutes ago, eyeball said: Or is this as silly as pointing out environmentalists who drive their cars to climate change rallies? Or some regimes who criticize the US and the West for its human rights violations (criticizing Canada for example for treatment of its natives) while they themselves torture and rape and murder their own citizens who may be slightly critical of their behavior. I guess there is no limit to shame and hypocrisy. Quote
SpankyMcFarland Posted January 29, 2017 Report Posted January 29, 2017 The order was stupid, though. If you are taking such a big step you have to plan and warn people ahead of time. Leaving permanent residents stranded in airports does not send a message of competence. Quote
Guest Posted January 29, 2017 Report Posted January 29, 2017 44 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Yes....America is the same as it ever was....Trump has changed nothing. Love it with its ugly warts...or not at all. I disagree on two points. First, it's not patronizing if it's true. That was more of a rhetorical question. Second, Trump has changed a lot. America, like a lot of countries, has had unpopular poiticians before. It's part of democracy. But it has now joined the ranks of those countries who have a complete idiot in charge. Usually that comes about due to a revolution, or coup, or some other non democratic means. Quote
kactus Posted January 29, 2017 Report Posted January 29, 2017 1 minute ago, bcsapper said: I disagree on two points. First, it's not patronizing if it's true. That was more of a rhetorical question. Second, Trump has changed a lot. America, like a lot of countries, has had unpopular poiticians before. It's part of democracy. But it has now joined the ranks of those countries who have a complete idiot in charge. Usually that comes about due to a revolution, or coup, or some other non democratic means. Trump's divisiveness has taken advantage of this power vaccum. I think crucially the native americans have to ask themselves what they really stand for instead of using escapegoats to blame immigration, foreigners, etc, etc. Quote
betsy Posted January 29, 2017 Author Report Posted January 29, 2017 Somebody mentioned the Union a while back..... Quote Unions Lean Democratic, but Donald Trump Gets Members’ Attention In expressing her concern, Ms. Henry reflected a different form of anxiety that is weighing on some union leaders and Democratic operatives: their fear that Mr. Trump, if not effectively countered, may draw an unusually large number of union voters in a possible general election matchup. This could, in turn, bolster Republicans in swing states like Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin, all of which President Obama won twice. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/30/business/donald-trump-unions.html?_r=0 Quote
Guest Posted January 29, 2017 Report Posted January 29, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, kactus said: Trump's divisiveness has taken advantage of this power vaccum. I think crucially the native americans have to ask themselves what they really stand for instead of using escapegoats to blame immigration, foreigners, etc, etc. I think they already know. I think complacency got the better of them in November. The question now is, does the Trump effect end there? Will he be ousted at the next election after a wave of revulsion that lasts four years, or will the effect spread, and see the election of other Trumps across the western democratic world? It's up to the left, really. Edited January 29, 2017 by bcsapper Quote
SpankyMcFarland Posted January 29, 2017 Report Posted January 29, 2017 (edited) Tariffs won't stop automation taking manufacturing jobs away. Trump is offering an inaccurate diagnosis that will harm the patient. Edited January 29, 2017 by SpankyMcFarland Quote
kactus Posted January 29, 2017 Report Posted January 29, 2017 (edited) 14 minutes ago, bcsapper said: I think they already know. I thing complacency got the better of them in November. The question now is, does the Trump effect end there? Will he be ousted at the next elextion after a wave of revulsion that lasts four years, or will the effect spread, and see the election of other Trumps across the western democratic world? It's up to the left, really. Given that in every US election one party has tried to out do the other one might think that Trump's legacy is short lived... He says make america great again to the average working 'John' but whether the average 'John' is better off in 4 years time is another matter. There might come a time DT becomes unpopular in his presidency due to this religious ideology thing. Then you may ask yourself that his election promises on immigration and muslims got him into presidency by dividing the country but now that he has shunned certain muslims and over snd done with it wtf are you gonna do with the economy sir? I think DT's unscrupulous business deals puts his interest ahead of that average 'John'. Your question is a good one and valid. I really cannot foresee how things will go in Europe... Edited January 29, 2017 by kactus Quote
Guest Posted January 29, 2017 Report Posted January 29, 2017 1 hour ago, CITIZEN_2015 said: And what exactly is the reason. America's records on staging military coups overthrowing democratic governments (Iran, Chile as two examples) and installing their own corrupt dictator, selling arms and torture instruments to most oppressive regimes, war crimes in south east asia, supporting military dictatorships and keeping them in power to suck the blood of their people, Being allied to most stinky regimes like those of Saudi Arabia.....and the list goes on. As a Brit, I've looked at the US as our allies for two world wars and a cold war. Just WWII and its aftermath would cement the US as a positive force for me. No country is perfect, and the level of hate directed towards a country is proportional to its power and influence, of course. I shudder to think what the world would be like now were it not for the US. Of course, Lichtenstein is nicer. Quote
Smallc Posted January 29, 2017 Report Posted January 29, 2017 Apparently, DHS is not allowing Canadians with dual citizenship in the 7 countries to cross the border. Quote
kactus Posted January 29, 2017 Report Posted January 29, 2017 Just now, Smallc said: Apparently, DHS is not allowing Canadians with dual citizenship in the 7 countries to cross the border. There you go... Quote
kactus Posted January 29, 2017 Report Posted January 29, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, bcsapper said: As a Brit, I've looked at the US as our allies for two world wars and a cold war. Just WWII and its aftermath would cement the US as a positive force for me. No country is perfect, and the level of hate directed towards a country is proportional to its power and influence, of course. I shudder to think what the world would be like now were it not for the US. Of course, Lichtenstein is nicer. Would that sentiment change for you if May's visit to US last Friday did not produce the "trade deal" she wanted after the Hard Brexit? Edited January 29, 2017 by kactus Quote
Guest Posted January 29, 2017 Report Posted January 29, 2017 1 minute ago, kactus said: Would that sentiment change for you if May's visit to US last Friday did not produce the "trade deal" she wanted after the Hard Brexit? The sentiment is pretty concrete, going back many years. As someone who holds Trump in the utmost contempt, I regard the US as more than just the politicians it elects. The same with the UK and Brexit, as it happens. If I was Theresa May, I wouldn't bank on anything until all the signatures are dry. Quote
kactus Posted January 29, 2017 Report Posted January 29, 2017 7 minutes ago, bcsapper said: If I was Theresa May, I wouldn't bank on anything until all the signatures are dry. Ofcourse, I wouldn't have it any other way if I was her. But whether she can get remains....unless she literally appeases to him as many pundits predict.... Quote
Argus Posted January 29, 2017 Report Posted January 29, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said: So dollars is all you see and the hell with human rights violations and the fact that we deal with a stinky regime. The great majority of the people on this planet live in places where the government could be loosely described in the same way. Are we to shun them all and not trade with them? Refusing to sell arms or equipment to the Saudis would accomplish nothing of value. They'd simply buy them elsewhere. Edited January 29, 2017 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted January 29, 2017 Report Posted January 29, 2017 2 hours ago, kimmy said: The question isn't whether he can get into Canada, it's whether he can get back into the US if he leaves. -k Same answer. If holders of Canadian passports who were born in one of the seven pariah states can get into the US why wouldn't holder of Swedish and UK passports not be treated similarly? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted January 29, 2017 Report Posted January 29, 2017 2 hours ago, kactus said: Because "all these foreign nationals" built the US for what it is.... Clearly not since they don't live there. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
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