America under President Trump

[CampMassad]

1 minute ago, WestCanMan said:

I know.

It's far beyond your capability to think for yourself, and CNN didn't tell you that, so there's no way that it could possibly be true from your POV. Still, you can't refute it, so you're left in a position where all you can do is throw down a sandbox insult and try to keep a stiff upper lip. 

The sad thing is that if someone said what I just said about Trump you'd instantly believe it regardless of what it said. The fact that something is negative/positive about someone you dislike/like is enough for you, facts be damned. 

I served during the cold war, there were no 'missions'. 

I was already out 5 years before desert storm. 

No offense, but Stolen valor is frowned upon in North America. I would really like to believe you, but I can't.

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

Here's the thing, Bubba. I often expressed my displeasure and disapproval of Obama. I never thought he was a good president either. Yet you continually defend Trump by saying, in effect "Well, Obama sucked too". 

I happen to think he's much worse. But never mind. If you do think he's as bad as Obama why do you lavish adoration on him when you didn't like Obama?

I said that to camper, not you.

If you disliked Obama, good on ya.

I don't think Trump is as bad as Obama at all, and I don't think that Trump has been a total blessing either. I'm just stuck in the position of continually having to correct people who are lying about him.

I do think that it's quite possible, even easy, for a person to be quite a bit more 'Presidential' than Trump is on a lot of occasions. But I also think that he came out of the ME looking quite brilliant. There hasn't been a President in my lifetime who could with honesty look back on a 4 yr term and say "I rocked foreign policy over in the ME."

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

I don't expect you to know this but she's a conservative writer and the Spectator is a conservative newspaper.

Good for her. There are Dems who have come out in support of Trump as well. 

 

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

And how many Trump associates have gone to jail? Not including the ones he pardoned? And are you going to sit there adn pretend they and he told the truth? Trump wouldn't tell the truth if you asked him what he had for breakfast.

Dude, he didn't have to lie about Russian collusion. It was a farce. He knew that along because in order for it to be real he would have had to have participated in it.

If Hillary accuses you of pooping on the Whitehouse lawn do your associates have to lie for you to say that you didn't do it? If you say that you didn't do it does that make you a liar? If you don't magically find some evidence that proves that you pooped on the lawn does that mean that you obstructed justice?

LMAO. Your circular reasoning is impossible to deal with. 

[WestCanMan]

23 minutes ago, CampMassad said:

No offense, but Stolen valor is frowned upon in North America. I would really like to believe you, but I can't.

I never laid claim to any great military victories, and I've never said that I was a veteran of a military conflict. I said that I served in the military and that's a simple fact. 

Whether you believe me or not, I don't really give a crap. 

[CampMassad]

27 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Good for her. There are Dems who have come out in support of Trump as well. 

 

First off, that is a man. I checked some background information on him, and he seems like a nut.  Crowd-surfing without a mask, during a pandemic indoors. Yup, this guy seems stable.

Edited October 18, 2020 by CampMassad

[WestCanMan]

21 minutes ago, CampMassad said:

First off, that is a man. I checked some background information on him, and he seems like a nut.  Crowd-surfing without a mask, during a pandemic indoors. Yup, this guy seems stable.

"Good for her" was referring to the woman who wrote the article that Argus cited. 

Speak English much?

[CampMassad]

2 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

"Good for her" was referring to the woman who wrote the article that Argus cited. 

Speak English much?

You are a strange one.

[BeaverFever]

9 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Iraq was on a trajectory

For the hundredth time no it wasn’t. It was a quagmire in its SIXTH YEAR with thousands of casualties after the Republicans who started it promised it would only last a few months and few casualties. THAT’S EPIC FAILURE.  All this pretending that you were just about to win it all after year upon year of tragic failure is childish “I loosened it for you” talk.    There’s absolutely no reason to believe things were just about  to magically turn around and ISIS is the natural evolution of the disaster Bush started. Full stop. 
 

9 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

You seem to think that Obama was powerless to right the ship, but Trump inherited a mess that was orders of magnitude larger than Obama was handed, and Trump tidied up like Martha Stewart.

No, he was just president when events took their course    Tell me what exactly Trump did besides also withdraw forces from the region?

 

 

[BeaverFever]

9 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Killing police officers as a political statement meets the exact definition of a terrorist attack beaver.

AFAIK neither BLM or Antifa have been declared terrorist  groups nor have any such acts of killing been attributed to them. Nor have any such acts by individuals been officially declared acts of terrorism, have they?

[BeaverFever]

9 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Just because groups existed doesn't mean that they were at the forefront of daily life. There weren't riots all across America during that span of time.

So you think segregation laws in the Jim Crow South weren’t  at the forefront of daily life?  Even after the civil rights era, it was and always has been at the forefront of daily life if you are black. And riots were frequent enough  Just because people like you have spent your entire life blind and oblivious to the racism and racial tension all around you doesn’t mean it didn’t exist. 
 

I don’t know what claim you’re trying to make regarding the Floyd bodycam footage.  The murderous cop hasn’t been exonerated and is still charged with murder 

[BeaverFever]

9 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

I get that you feel that way because you don't have all the info, but it's not my fault that you choose to remain ignorant.

FYI there was no crime committed, there was nothing to obstruct, and the Trump team allowed themselves to be subjected to hundreds of interrogations and they submitted millions of pages of documents. Plus they were spied on.

They were more than accommodating, especially when the whole RC farce was just the Dems' third instance of cheating during the 2016 election (3rd proven instance, there were probably many more). 

I guess when you live your life completely immersed in a bubble of right wing propaganda you would think the falsehoods you posted above are true but line-by-line they’re completely false and half-truths. The Mueller report enumerated at least ten acts by Trump that would constitute obstruction of justice if committed by any other person.  Each are summarized  here:
 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/obstruction-of-justice-10-times-trump-may-have-obstructed-justice-mueller-report/

[BeaverFever]

9 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Jim MacDougall was convicted on 18 counts of felony fraud and conspiracy charges. His wife went to prison for refusing to testify against the Clintons. The Clintons were their business partners. 

The Clintons "lost all their emails", I mean, "papers". Weird how that always happens. Hillary has also suffered two bouts of amnesia in her lifetime, both times when she was testifying in court.

You're comparing the investigation of actual and very serious crimes with the Loch Ness Monster investigation. 

Manafort, Flynn, Stone, how many Trumpsters were convicted for lying to authorities, “conspiracy against the United States” laundering Russian money?  How many were found to be in regular contact with know Russian government agents?  The personal contacts of Trump campaign members were crawling with Russian government influencers whether they knew it or not. 

[bush_cheney2004]

14 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

So you think segregation laws in the Jim Crow South weren’t  at the forefront of daily life?  Even after the civil rights era, it was and always has been at the forefront of daily life if you are black.

 

This is not true for all "black" Americans, and is a gross generalization.   I am a "black" American who lived in the South and it certainly was not always at the forefront of daily life.

Do you speak from experience as a "black" American ?

 

Quote

I don’t know what claim you’re trying to make regarding the Floyd bodycam footage.  The murderous cop hasn’t been exonerated and is still charged with murder 

 

"Exoneration" is a legal determination that can only follow a conviction that is overturned by new evidence...police officer Chauvin is presumed to be not guilty until convicted in court, so he can't be exonerated yet.

[BeaverFever]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

This is not true for all "black" Americans, and is a gross generalization.   I am a "black" American who lived in the South and it certainly was not always at the forefront of daily life.

Do you speak from experience as a "black" American ?

Weekly life then?

I am not black but I lived in Florida for 5 years during the Clinton-Bush era and incidents on the news like “driving while black” encounters gone wrong, etc were frequent enough. And general conversations in social settings frequently turned to issues of race relations featuring opinions from all sides. Some of which I found quite shocking. 
 

8 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Exoneration" is a legal determination that can only follow a conviction that is overturned by new evidence...police officer Chauvin is presumed to be not guilty until convicted in court, so he can't be exonerated yet.

How come only conservatives are  “innocent until proven guilty “? Funny how rarely I hear conservatives say that about Trudeau or Hillary or Biden. The point is that the charges against him haven’t been withdrawn...again WestCan seems to be alleging the charges are part of some leftist plot. 
 

 

[bush_cheney2004]

19 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Weekly life then?

I am not black but I lived in Florida for 5 years during the Clinton-Bush era and incidents on the news like “driving while black” encounters gone wrong, etc were frequent enough. And general conversations in social settings frequently turned to issues of race relations featuring opinions from all sides. Some of which I found quite shocking.

 

So you have no real personal experience as a black American or even as an American if I understand your response correctly.  The Clinton-Bush era is very recent compared to the civil rights story arc and narrative for Americans.    Black America is not a monolithic bloc that has the same experiences or anecdotal stories that you shared in conversations.    It varied by education, occupation, economic class, state, region, sex/gender, etc., etc.   

Conservative "black" Americans and even many liberals take issue with "white" liberals and "progressives" pretending to know and understand their experiences and conditions, if only to use them for their own partisan political gain.  

Poor "whites" and other groups of so called "lower" socio-economic class also find themselves at disadvantage, not only "blacks".   The solution is to not let the liberals define your victimhood over and over again, but to succeed in spite of such labeling, and call them out on it.

 

Quote

How come only conservatives are  “innocent until proven guilty “? Funny how rarely I hear conservatives say that about Trudeau or Hillary or Biden. The point is that the charges against him haven’t been withdrawn...again WestCan seems to be alleging the charges are part of some leftist plot. 
 

 

That's fine, but the term "exoneration" has been abused very often when it has a very specific legal definition and context.   The officer has been charged and is now out on bail (all four are).   They have rights just like any other American.

Edited October 19, 2020 by bush_cheney2004

[BeaverFever]

10 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

1) Where's the cite for this allegation of Trump lining his pockets?

2) https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/trudeau-government-contributed-1-18-million-to-we-day-event-in-2017-during-which-pms-mother-was-likely-paid-to-speak

Trudeau ASKED WE to host an event

Trudeau GAVE WE GOV'T CASH to host that event.

Some of THAT MONEY WENT TO TRUDEAU'S MOM.

That's pretty linear. It wasn't an event that We was hosting themselves, Trudeau solicited them to do it. 

"Hey here's $1.18M to host an event that my mom will get paid to speak at."

This wasn't a value for money proposition. Canadians didn't get anything out of this. Trudeau just found a way to get his mom some money. We was nothing more than a gravy train for Liberals and their family members.

 

Again, your ignorance is appalling. 

 

1) Trump lining his pockets:

 

How Trump fused his business empire to the presidency

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/01/20/trump-businesses-empire-tied-presidency-100496

Trump’s Businesses Raked In $1.9 Billion Of Revenue During His First Three Years In Office
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2020/09/11/trumps-businesses-raked-in-19-billion-of-revenue-during-his-first-three-years-in-office/#7e80aba11e13

Trump-branded properties charged federal government at least $1.2 million, records show

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/03/12/politics/trump-branded-properties-charge-taxpayers-a-million-invs/index.html

 

Ka-Ching

Donald Trump is raking in big bucks from emoluments foreign and domestic.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2018-03-05/how-is-donald-trump-profiting-from-the-presidency-let-us-count-the-ways%3fcontext=amp
 

 

2) Trudeau and WE:  well at least unlike the right, I’m man enough to say the optics are terrible, on the surface it appears improper and people are right to demand answers. Unlike conservatives don’t have to cook up crackpot theories about some vast worldwide media conspiracy just because it’s a story that doesn’t suit my politics. Oh and didn’t you say the media is all some kind of leftist conspiracy if that’s true how is it this story tarnishing the leftist leaders image is even in the mainstream media?  Conveniently the “fake news “ is true just when you want it to be eh?

[BeaverFever]

32 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

So you have no real personal experience as a black American or even as an American if I understand your response correctly.  The Clinton-Bush era is very recent compared to the civil rights story arc and narrative for Americans.    Black America is not a monolithic bloc that has the same experiences or anecdotal stories that you shared in conversations.    It varied by education, occupation, economic class, state, region, sex/gender, etc., etc.   

Conservative "black" Americans and even many liberals take issue with "white" liberals and "progressives" pretending to know and understand their experiences and conditions, if only to use them for their own partisan political gain.  

Poor "whites" and other groups of so called "lower" socio-economic class also find themselves at disadvantage, not only "blacks".   The solution is to not let the liberals define your victimhood over and over again, but to succeed in spite of such labeling, and call them out on it.

 

 

That's fine, but the term "exoneration" has been abused very often when it has a very specific legal definition and context.   The officer has been charged and is now out on bail (all four are).   They have rights just like any other American.

No I am neither black nor American. To your tangential rant, I am not claiming black Americans  are a monolithic block, know your personal experiences,  define your victim hood etc  Interestingly, your words sound very much like a lefty about to tell me I am appropriating your voice and stealing your truth, you use very much the same words as BLM and the like. 

Again the one only point here is that racial tensions have been a part of American society since the beginning and that’s true regardless of tour individual experiences.   Westcan waa claiming there were no racial tensions and everyone was singing kumbaya until Obama came along but America has been bitterly divided for decades not just along racial lines. 

During my 5 years down south, which were kind of America’s last golden years up until the tech bubble popped and then 9-11 happened, I still heard white people who would swear they’re not racist use the N- word daily like “don’t eat at that Dennys that’s the N- - Dennys” and so on.   Talk like that was part of THEIR daily life and they thought nothing of it. And they didn’t think they were racist. 

[bush_cheney2004]

1 hour ago, BeaverFever said:

No I am neither black nor American. To your tangential rant, I am not claiming black Americans  are a monolithic block, know your personal experiences,  define your victim hood etc  Interestingly, your words sound very much like a lefty about to tell me I am appropriating your voice and stealing your truth, you use very much the same words as BLM and the like.

 

Then don't pretend that you have any inherent credibility or veracity for such matters beyond regurgitating what you can glean from American history and media.   I purposely use such rhetoric to turn the tables on liberals who think they are so down with "black" Americans.

 

Quote

Again the one only point here is that racial tensions have been a part of American society since the beginning and that’s true regardless of tour individual experiences.   Westcan waa claiming there were no racial tensions and everyone was singing kumbaya until Obama came along but America has been bitterly divided for decades not just along racial lines.

 

Meh...I can make the same claim about Canada...so what ?

 

Quote

During my 5 years down south, which were kind of America’s last golden years up until the tech bubble popped and then 9-11 happened, I still heard white people who would swear they’re not racist use the N- word daily like “don’t eat at that Dennys that’s the N- - Dennys” and so on.   Talk like that was part of THEIR daily life and they thought nothing of it. And they didn’t think they were racist. 

 

I have news for you..."black" people also use the "N-word"...more than white people.   I have lived in Florida, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, and South Carolina, but have also lived in Connecticut, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Nevada, Minnesota, and California....they say it there too.

I have never needed to live or work in Canada regardless of economic conditions, but I am confident they say it there too.  (I find it interesting that you still sought employment in "racist" Florida.)

I would much rather deal with an obvious racist from the U.S. than the closet variety from Canada.

Edited October 19, 2020 by bush_cheney2004

[Boges]

You always know you're on the winning side of a debate when you're justifying the use of the N-Word. 

[Cannucklehead]

so true!   

[BeaverFever]

11 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Then don't pretend that you have any inherent credibility or veracity for such matters beyond regurgitating what you can glean from American history and media.   I purposely use such rhetoric to turn the tables on liberals who think they are so down with "black" Americans.

So to recap you’re saying only a black person is qualified to observe that there are racial tensions in American society?  So I have that correct?  If so that’s absurd.  Also why then is WestCan qualified to declare that there was no racial tension before Obama was elected?  Is he also a Black American?

Also the controversy about Bush’s response to Hurricane Katrina and Kanye declaring on live TV “George Bush doesn’t care about Black People” never happened huh?  
 

FTR I went to Florida for university, went down there a young naive pro-USA 20 year old after spending a year in the Canadian Forces Reserve after high school. In those days I thought USA was awesome and Canada was quaint but boring. It didn’t take me long to see the truth however and I came home very pro-Canada and eyes wide open about America’s many flaws. 

[WestCanMan]

14 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

For the hundredth time no it wasn’t. It was a quagmire in its SIXTH YEAR with thousands of casualties after the Republicans who started it promised it would only last a few months and few casualties. THAT’S EPIC FAILURE.  All this pretending that you were just about to win it all after year upon year of tragic failure is childish “I loosened it for you” talk.    There’s absolutely no reason to believe things were just about  to magically turn around and ISIS is the natural evolution of the disaster Bush started. Full stop. 

It was a situation where a slow pull-out was necessary. Truncating the military's oversight there created an enormous power vacuum. That was Obama's 'strategy', I think he called it "Operation Custer".

Quote

No, he was just president when events took their course    Tell me what exactly Trump did besides also withdraw forces from the region?

You've just taken TDS to a whole new level. That's literally the stupidest thing I've ever read in my life. 

I know I say that a lot here, especially in the last week for some reason, but this time is for real. 

 

[bush_cheney2004]

1 hour ago, BeaverFever said:

So to recap you’re saying only a black person is qualified to observe that there are racial tensions in American society?  So I have that correct?

 

No...the point is that you do not have it correct, as you attempted to describe the "daily" experiences of all black Americans for your own partisan agenda....from Canada of all places.

 

Quote

 If so that’s absurd.  Also why then is WestCan qualified to declare that there was no racial tension before Obama was elected?  Is he also a Black American?

 

Take it up with him...and Obama (who is biracial).

 

Quote

Also the controversy about Bush’s response to Hurricane Katrina and Kanye declaring on live TV “George Bush doesn’t care about Black People” never happened huh? 

 

More of the same from you....no broader context beyond "black people".   Are "black people" in the United States your go to mojo, disregarding many other Americans and their experiences ?  

Quote

FTR I went to Florida for university, went down there a young naive pro-USA 20 year old after spending a year in the Canadian Forces Reserve after high school. In those days I thought USA was awesome and Canada was quaint but boring. It didn’t take me long to see the truth however and I came home very pro-Canada and eyes wide open about America’s many flaws. 

 

...and yet you stayed for five years, just like thousands of other smug Canadians who visit or live in Florida sunshine each year, despite all those oppressed "black people".   

Can't make this stuff up.

Edited October 19, 2020 by bush_cheney2004

[DogOnPorch]

They hate it when Larry Elder & Candace Owens lecture them about reality, as well.

Edited October 19, 2020 by DogOnPorch