America under President Trump

[Boges]

Just now, WestCanMan said:

TBH, I don't really care about c19 deaths. The vast majority of those people would have died very soon anyways. It's unfortunate, but it's not on the same level as a 20 yr old dying from Fentanyl, or a 16 yr old being killed by the CHAZ police. 

Cancer deaths, for instance, occur in ages from 3 to 103. A cancer death has a nearly-equal chance of being a devastating tragedy, or not that big of a deal. If I die of cancer at 103 no one will give a crap, or at least they definitely shouldn't. 

A C19 death is certain to be far nearer to "not that surprising" than "life-shattering for an entire family".

The C-19 deaths aren't like ebola deaths where 6 year olds died all the time. I still remember the pic of the little kid sitting naked, all alone, who theoretically died of ebola later that day. His family theoretically booted him when he got sick. Compare that with an 83 yr old with two or more co-morbidities. Or don't bother, I don't need to hear it.

AFIK Cancer isn't a communicable disease. 

You do know that when Hospitals reach capacity, your chances of dying from other ailments/trauma increase exponentially as well. 

And what about young people with co-morbidities? Do they deserve to die as well? 

[Boges]

3 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Yes, for certain.

If people care enough to vote, then vote. If they don't care, then don't vote. It's always been that way.

Don't just make fraud on a massive scale entirely easy (and likely) just to satisfy the vast minority of people who don't really give a rip. 

Do you have evidence that fraud by Voting by mail is rampant? 

https://theconversation.com/research-on-voting-by-mail-says-its-safe-from-fraud-and-disease-141847

Quote

 

Voter fraud is rare overall, and rarer by mail

When fraud does occur, election administrators identify it and take action, correcting election returns and prosecuting those responsible. That’s what happened in North Carolina in 2018, when a Republican political activist paid others to collect incomplete absentee ballots so they could be filled out to vote for the Republican candidate. The activist was arrested, charged and convicted – and the entire election was invalidated and run again.

But overall election fraud is rare.

 

A Repub tried to commit Voter Fraud in 2018. . . And was caught!!!

Edited July 17, 2020 by Boges

[Michael Hardner]

'Chilling': Federal officers are pulling Portland protesters into unmarked vehicles, reports say

Here is USA Today reporting the new Secret Police activity.  The concern is that - since the police are acting independently - new militia gangs will prop up and copy them.  

[Infidel Dog]

1 hour ago, Boges said:

1) The Republican governor of the state thought it was needed. Re-opening has been put on hold. 

2) What other explanation is there for record COVID-19 deaths and ICU's reaching capacity? 

1) You're wrong:

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott says “there is no shutdown coming” as coronavirus cases surge

2) Recent deaths in Texas are only a record in Texas. States like Pennsylvania, New York and New Jersey have had days of double or much, much more than Texas. 129 died in Texas yesterday. New York had a day when more than 4,000 died.

Graphic: Coronavirus deaths in the U.S., per day

As to your imagined lack of ICU beds in Texas...

Quote

Former New York Times reporter Alex Berenson told "Bill Hemmer Reports" Wednesday that "it doesn't look like there's hospital overrun" in Texas shortly before the state announced a new high in the number of daily reported deaths from COVID-19.

It doesn't look like there's hospital overrun,' ex-NY Times reporter tells Bill Hemmer

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

0

 

[Boges]

11 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

1) You're wrong:

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott says “there is no shutdown coming” as coronavirus cases surge

I didn't say a shutdown was coming. Which is the problem, they need a shutdown.

I said the re-opening has been put on hold. 

He admits they tried to open the state up to quickly. 

https://www.texastribune.org/2020/06/26/greg-abbott-texas-bars-regret/

Quote

 

"If I could go back and redo anything, it probably would have been to slow down the opening of bars, now seeing in the aftermath of how quickly the coronavirus spread in the bar setting," Abbott said during an evening interview with KVIA in El Paso.

Abbott added that the "bar setting, in reality, just doesn't work with a pandemic," noting people "go to bars to get close and to drink and to socialize, and that's the kind of thing that stokes the spread of the coronavirus."

 

Note, he's not blaming BLM protests. 

 

Quote

 

2) Recent deaths in Texas are only a record in Texas. States like Pennsylvania, New York and New Jersey have had days of double or much, much more than Texas. 129 died in Texas yesterday. New York had a day when more than 4,000 died.

Graphic: Coronavirus deaths in the U.S., per day

 

New York, Italy, Spain, Belgium etc. were the hardest hit by the virus. And doctors didn't know how to treat it. But they shutdown and slowly flattened the curve and now the virus is under control. 

In the Southern US, the opposite is happening.

Younger people are getting it and doctors have viable treatments so the death rate is lower. But it still doesn't stop the fact that disease is endemic in the society and is spreading uncontrollably. 

The Death rate is effected by the ability of hospitals to treat the sick. Which is why the shutdowns happened in the first place. As Hospitals reach capacity the death rate will increase. And has increased. 

Quote

It doesn't look like there's hospital overrun,' ex-NY Times reporter tells Bill Hemmer

 

Fox News also reported that multiple Texas Counties are bringing in refrigerated trucks because of there's no place to put the bodies. 

We'll see if mask mandates work, but other than telling people to stay home again, I'm not sure how the infection gets under control. 

Edited July 17, 2020 by Boges

[Infidel Dog]

You can't do that. You can't make some broad sweeping insinuation like this:

Quote

1) The Republican governor of the state thought it was needed. Re-opening has been put on hold. 

then when you're shown the Republican not only didn't say that but said the exact opposite think you can dodge to "No wait. What I really meant was he just regrets re-opening the bars."

That's not what you originally meant. If somebody actually thinks it was he should step forward so I can laugh at him.

110 people died in Texas according to RCP's New Deaths stat. 3,778 died in democrat-run New York on April 14. Make your Republican mismanagement insinuation out of that stat.

Cuomo was sending Covid patients from the ER to nursing homes. Abbot regrets re-opening bars early. 

Oh and flattening the curve is a useless stat because an increase in testing skews the stat. All it proves is somebody figured out how to issue more tests.

Edited July 17, 2020 by Infidel Dog

[Infidel Dog]

Also the top ten fatality rates by state (or federal district) are:

Connecticut 9.18

New Jersey 8.62

Michigan 7.89

New York 7.52

California 7.44

Pennsylvania 6.78

New Hampshire 6.41

Rhode Island 5.86

Indiana 5.11

(Federal District) DC 5.16

Just in case you ever want to clarify your insinuation there's evidence of a southern Republican covid policy mismanagement.

 

[Infidel Dog]

The fatality rates by country at Real Clear Politics look like this:

France 17.26

United Kingdom 15.43

Belgium 15.41

Italy 14.36

Netherlands 11.93

Mexico 11.60

Spain 9.25

Canada 8.06

Sweden 7.27

Ecuador 7,25

7 spots below that is the United States.

 

 

 

[Cannucklehead]

https://theintercept.com/2020/07/16/trump-keeps-bragging-americas-covid-19-death-rate-among-worlds-worst/

 

 

Meanwhile all across the u.s. hospitals are setting up tents to add capacity and requesting freezer trucks for the morgues because they have already exceeded theirs.  

 

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/data-analytics/why-texas-publicly-reported-covid-19-death-rates-are-likely-too-low.html

Texas publicly reports just confirmed COVID-19 deaths, which means patients who die before undergoing COVID-19 screening are not included in those counts. Many individuals who die at home do not undergo an autopsy to reveal whether they had the coronavirus, and with testing shortages in the state, others have likely died before being tested.

 

I guess we'll never know the real numbers.  

 

[Infidel Dog]

Well, the fatality rates you found seem to confirm the ones at RCP so I'm not sure what your point is. The fatality rates in America are relatively low.

Fake covid deaths like when somebody dies of diabetes or cancer or suicide and gets marked down under orders from the Powers That Be as Covid deaths are the bigger covid skewering stat. 

As far as scares like "OMG! They won't have enough beds! They're burying people in mass graves!" go. We saw those earlier in other states and they turned out to be nothing. The media likes to scare. Call us when they actually have something.

 

Edited July 18, 2020 by Infidel Dog

[Argus]

On 7/17/2020 at 3:17 PM, Michael Hardner said:

'Chilling': Federal officers are pulling Portland protesters into unmarked vehicles, reports say

Here is USA Today reporting the new Secret Police activity.  The concern is that - since the police are acting independently - new militia gangs will prop up and copy them.  

Secret police don't wear uniforms which say "POLICE" and they don't take you to a federal courthouse and read you your miranda rights.

Portland is one of those cities largely run by ANTIFA and their friends. Police there are hamstrung and unable to enforce laws, and extreme left protesters have been gleefully attacking federal property without the police being able to do anything about it. On the occasions police do make arrests local prosecutors often refuse to lay charges. Here is a list of just those incidents around federal property in the last two weeks.

07/04/2020

Around 1,000 protestors spray painted, threw rocks, and shot fireworks (including mortar style fireworks) at the Hatfield Courthouse. They also destroyed a security camera at the facility. A CBP team supporting FPS at the courthouse arrested suspects from the graffiti and camera vandalism incidents. The mob continued to throw rocks and paint-filled balloons, while attempting to breach the doors. Teams were forced to utilize crowd control measures for safety. Multiple individuals were seen carrying rifles, including the driver of a vehicle who attempted to strike a Portland Police Bureau officer with his car in front of the Hatfield Courthouse.

07/05/2020

A crowd of about 250 protestors returned to the vicinity of Hatfield Courthouse to vandalize and attack numerous facilities and police, while failing to comply with dispersal order.

Protestors surrounded and blocked law enforcement from the area as extremists proceeded to attack police with thrown projectiles and large mortar style fireworks. Two Portland Police Bureau officers were injured by the crowd (possible concussion). Portland Police Bureau took five into custody for directing lasers against aircraft.

Protestors set fires in front of Hatfield Courthouse and Chapman park. At the entrance of Hatfield Courthouse, protestors fired large fireworks and threw other dangerous objects toward the entrance and the personnel protecting it. The mob was pushed completely out of the area of Hatfield Courthouse; FPS made two arrests during push. Portland Police made multiple arrests and found a loaded weapon on one subject.

Two more protestors were arrested, and one was found to be carrying what appears to be a pipe bomb.

Protestors assaulted construction crews by targeting them with fireworks while they repaired Hatfield Building. A joint team had to be deployed to create buffer between protestors and construction crew to protect construction workers.

07/06/2020

Protestors attempted to cause vision damage to personnel with lasers. Five arrests were made for assaulting law enforcement.

07/07/2020

Protestors held a “Night of Rage,” in which a 400-500-person protest devolved into riots, assaulting law enforcement officers and federal property.

Approximately 200 Protestors began pursuing law enforcement officers to disrupt enforcement actions, assaulting them with rocks and bottles. Around 150 protestors in front of the Justice Center began attacking personnel with lasers and peppered the area with fireworks. Three protestors were arrested for attacking law enforcement.

07/08/2020

Approximately 200 violent protestors attacked DHS law enforcement officers while apprehending a subject who was wanted for property damage. One arrest was made after three law enforcement officers were injured. Law enforcement officers’ personal information was publicly exposed, including FPS, ICE, and CBP personnel.

Protestors continued to attack officers with lasers.

07/09/2020

Protestors attacked DHS law enforcement officers while apprehending a subject who was wanted for property damage.

A protestor graffitied the Hatfield courthouse. An unidentified subject fired several shots from a gun into the air from the rear seat of a passing white SUV.

07/10/2020

Crowds of approximately 300 protestors vandalized federal property and cameras with spray paint, blocked roadways, and assaulted law enforcement officers. Three were arrested for Assault on a Federal Officer. Protestors attempted to ambush Portland Police Department PD during their shift change, but a DHS team was deployed and able to prevent any attacks.

07/11/2020

DHS law enforcement officers supported local police to help a violent anarchist who overdosed. Four protestors were arrested, including one who attempted to assault an officer with a hammer. Protestors sieged the barricade of the courthouse and tried to damage it with a large hammer.

A law enforcement officer was assaulted with blows from a hammer. Protestors fought officers while they were arresting those responsible.

07/12/2020

Six Protestors were detained and cited.

A mob of 300 refused to comply with directions not to trespass on federal property. Another mob of 200 individuals armed with sledgehammers, tasers and/or stun guns, gathered in Chapman Park across from the Hatfield Courthouse. Protestors launched fireworks, threw fecal matter and large objects, and pointed lasers at federal law enforcement officers.

Protestors deployed a plywood blockade while graffitiing the Edith Green-Wenell Wyatt Federal Building, before firing wrist rockets at the facility. When an arrest team was deployed to apprehend a rioter who encroached on a police barrier and refused to leave, they were assaulted by protestors. A rioter trespassed on the steps of the Hatfield Courthouse and was confronted by federal law enforcement Officers, then swallowed a large amount of narcotics. Law enforcement called medical services after the individual started to convulse. Despite more orders to stay off of federal property and to cease unlawful activity, FPS was forced to push back protestors. The Portland Police Bureau declared the mob an unlawful assembly.

07/13/2020

Protestors released personal information of federal law enforcement officers to the public, publishing names of those in Portland. Protestors continued to assault law enforcement officers with lasers, slingshots and fireworks. Others were armed with sledge hammers, tasers, and stun guns, and dragged flaming debris into the scene.

07/14/2020

Protestors set a container of liquid on fire at the Terry Schrunk Plaza.

Protestors jumped a fence and attempted to breach the Edith Green Federal Building.

Protestors assaulted federal law enforcement officers with cans and other hard objects while they attempted to unblock the entrance of the Edith Green Federal Building.

07/15/2020

Protestors doxed members of federal law enforcement.

Protestors attempted to damage the Hatfield Courthouse by throwing objects at it and spray painting it. Numerous fireworks were also lit.

Protestors trespassed on federal property and destroyed a card reader at the Justice Center

 

[Infidel Dog]

Here's another one the MSM won't be telling you about.

You know how they will tell how babbling, basement dwelling Joe Biden is leading handily in the polls? In fact they won't shut up about it.

What they won't tell you is there's an interesting stat buried in those polls. The majority that thinks they'll be voting for Joe also says they expect Trump to win again.

That's interesting because...

Quote

Across the last 100 days prior to the seven elections from 1988 to 2012, vote expectation surveys provided more accurate forecasts of election winners and vote shares than four established methods (vote intention polls, prediction markets, quantitative models, and expert judgment). Gains in accuracy were particularly large compared to polls. On average, the error of expectation-based vote-share forecasts was 51 percent lower than the error of polls published the same day.

https://spectator.org/why-the-polls-predict-trump-will-win/

Edited July 18, 2020 by Infidel Dog

[WestCanMan]

On 7/18/2020 at 1:18 PM, Argus said:

 Here is a list of just those incidents around federal property in the last two weeks

It sounds as though the local police in Portland were keeping control of the mob to the extent that their local government is happy with. 

[WestCanMan]

On 7/18/2020 at 12:51 PM, Infidel Dog said:

As far as scares like "OMG! They won't have enough beds! They're burying people in mass graves!" go. We saw those earlier in other states and they turned out to be nothing. The media likes to scare. Call us when they actually have something.

The sky is falling!

[taxme]

On 7/13/2020 at 1:50 PM, WestCanMan said:

You're wrong again as usual Bubber.

NY had 41 deaths yesterday. Fla and Texas both have larger populations than NY State and Fla had 35 deaths, Tex had 21, Az had 8.

I know that has a lot to do with the fact that they don't have idiot governors and mayors like Cuomo and DeBlazio who threw infected patients back into care homes, but that's NY's own fault because they were stupid enough to vote for Dems.

It must bother you how often you're just 100% wrong. Just remember "stats aren't your friend'. Never post anything that can easily be verified or discredited by stats. 

What do you expect to get when you are dealing with a leftist liberal/pro democrat socialist supporter? You get a liberal democrat who supports commie dyktators who offer nothing but doom and gloom and communist tyranny. All those rise in numbers in Texas and Arizona are all fabricated numbers and stories dreamed up by the democrats and their lackey fake media to make it appear as though the China virus is still alive and doing well in America. This virus must be kept going as come this fall there will be even something greater coming our way. This is nothing compared to what the globalists will bring on this fall. Trust me something will happen this fall, and we are not going to like it at all. Some people are calling it COVID #20. 

The deep state globalists and the democrats must try and stop Donald Trump at all costs from winning the next election or else they are doomed. This is why Donald Trump must win the election. Donald Trump will end this virus hoax once and for all. Biden will keep it going and make it worse. This bull chit going on has nothing to do with some virus but more to do with power and control which the globalists must hang on to survive.  Donald Trump stands in their way.  They must try and wreck Trump's economy, and then blame the economies problems on Trump. Trump is dealing with some mean evil scum bags. 

The corona virus is supposed to be a respiratory virus that affects the respiratory system. If one does not have breathing problems then one does not have this particular so called COVID 19 virus.  If someone does have this so called China virus and they start coughing a lot then stay away from them. No doubt it will be just one of your regular seasonal flu bug that they probably have that comes around every year. No coughing, no virus to worry about or catch. The world needs Trump to help keep our freedoms or get Biden and communism. It's as simple as that.  

[taxme]

On 7/18/2020 at 1:35 PM, Infidel Dog said:

Here's another one the MSM won't be telling you about.

You know how they will tell how babbling, basement dwelling Joe Biden is leading handily in the polls? In fact they won't shut up about it.

What they won't tell you is there's an interesting stat buried in those polls. The majority that thinks they'll be voting for Joe also says they expect Trump to win again.

That's interesting because...

https://spectator.org/why-the-polls-predict-trump-will-win/

All the polls in the last election had Hillary becoming the president in 2016. What happened? Trump ended up becoming the president. Most of those polls are leftist liberal made up polls to make it appear as though Biden will win the election. I predict that he will lose big time.

A few debates between Trump and Biden and that will seal the  end for Biden's chances of becoming president unless there are plans to fix and rig the election for Biden. Mail in ballots will be a big problem in this election. It can be open to abuse. Anyway, how can anyone vote for someone who stumbles and bumbles his words and forgets what he wants to say all the time, and at times does not know where he is or who his wife is. The only polls to believe are the ones we get to see after the election is over, and whether the predictions were right or wrong. 

[Infidel Dog]

I was watching Trump get interviewed on Fox's Sunday show.

Trump talks about America's low "fatality rate," which is percentage of deaths per infections.

The interviewer looking for a 'gotcha' today was  using deaths per 100,000 of population and pretending that was the same thing Trump was talking about. America winds up being about 7th of whatever countries they're choosing even with what's his name the interviewer's favored stat. 

With actual fatality rate America is usually around 17 of 20 countries. It's below all the major ones with the possible exception of Germany. 

[Boges]

7 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

I was watching Trump get interviewed on Fox's Sunday show.

Trump talks about America's low "fatality rate," which is percentage of deaths per infections.

The interviewer looking for a 'gotcha' today was  using deaths per 100,000 of population and pretending that was the same thing Trump was talking about. America winds up being about 7th of whatever countries they're choosing even with what's his name the interviewer's favored stat. 

With actual fatality rate America is usually around 17 of 20 countries. It's below all the major ones with the possible exception of Germany. 

This narrative is totally disingenuous.

The death rates being compared to those from the spring. So early places that saw huge spikes in infections and death included Italy, France, Spain, the UK and the New York/New Jersey area. Doctors didn't know how to treat it, there was no social distancing for an extended period and older people were getting the disease and dying from it. 

In fear of what was seen happening in those countries, most of North America shut down for 6-8 weeks. In that time infections largely dropped in the "hot zones". To the point now that they can re-open. 

Places like Canada never saw the infection rate seen in Europe or New York because of the public health policy. 

What we're seeing now is completely different. It's young people who don't give two shits about public safety causes this infection spikes. Because they're younger and treatments are available, the deaths aren't nearly as bad. But they're getting bad because Hospitals are filling up fast.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/19/we-need-to-close-down-florida-reports-more-than-10000-coronavirus-cases-for-fifth-day.html

Quote

Hospitalizations have risen in recent weeks as well. As of Sunday, 49 hospitals had no more available adult intensive care units, according to Florida’s Agency for Health Care Administration.

“The residents here are terrified and I’m terrified, for the first time in my career because there’s a lack of leadership,” Democratic Rep. Donna Shalala, whose district is in  Miami-Dade County, said on ABC’s “This Week.” “It’s terrible. We have community spread, which means the virus is out of control.”

Businesses opened up too quickly and now are likely going to have to shut down again. 

Edited July 20, 2020 by Boges

[Boges]

On 7/18/2020 at 6:20 AM, Cannucklehead said:

I guess we'll never know the real numbers.  

And, in the US, testing backlogs are so bad that you may just assume you have COVID-19 and not get tested because you won't or can't wait in line 8 hours just to get a swab jammed up your nose. 

[Boges]

I think, eventually, the cases will start to drop. Only because local politicians realize that masks and social distancing are the only real way to stop the spread in densely populated areas. 

I would hope that Americans realize that the man on the top played Defence against that strategy from the get-go. 

 

[bush_cheney2004]

33 minutes ago, Boges said:

I would hope that Americans realize that the man on the top played Defence against that strategy from the get-go.

 

Doesn't matter....the "experts" also played "Defence" against that strategy from the get-go (e.g. masks, travel bans, closed borders, etc.)

Americans are not a monolithic block...not even for COVID-19.    Many will do what they want...where they want...when they want.  

Government cannot lock them all up or down.

People who are so afraid should where a mask, stay home, or whatever they need to do to "feel safe".

[Boges]

2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

People who are so afraid should where a mask, stay home, or whatever they need to do to "feel safe".

What about corporations that are also mandating masks? Are they part of this Left-Wing conspiracy? 

Masks aren't just about protecting the person wearing them. It's about protecting others incase that person is asymptomatic. 

[bush_cheney2004]

13 minutes ago, Boges said:

What about corporations that are also mandating masks? Are they part of this Left-Wing conspiracy? 

Masks aren't just about protecting the person wearing them. It's about protecting others incase that person is asymptomatic. 

 

Many people have heard this 1,000 times...STILL DON'T CARE...and you can't make them care.

Left-wing, right wing, BLM, take your pick.    Stop expecting all people to think and behave like you want them to. 

Ain't going to happen....regardless of President Trump.

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, Boges said:

Places like Canada never saw the infection rate seen in Europe or New York because of the public health policy.  

Correction: because of our extremely low population density

Quote

What we're seeing now is completely different. It's young people who don't give two shits about public safety causes this infection spikes. Because they're younger and treatments are available, the deaths aren't nearly as bad. But they're getting bad because Hospitals are filling up fast.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/19/we-need-to-close-down-florida-reports-more-than-10000-coronavirus-cases-for-fifth-day.html

Businesses opened up too quickly and now are likely going to have to shut down again.

We just have to tough it out. It's like a war for the survival of our country, but instead of a bunch of 17-20 yr-olds dying it's 80+.

.05% of the population is going to die. Helathy people have a .001% chance of dying from ths. That's life.

[Infidel Dog]

3 hours ago, Boges said:

This narrative is totally disingenuous.

Nonsense. You're talking about something completely different.

You're assuming things are worse than they are then giving your theory as to why that might be and insinuating Trump is the cause.

I'm saying the fake news is using a completely different metric to judge death rate than the one Trump is then strutting about like they've got a 'gotcha' because the results don't match. 

Trump is using "fatality rate" and calling it fatality rate. The fake news, fake "fact checkers" are using deaths per 100,000. Either metric puts mortality less than most or all of the major countries in Europe but the one Trump is using puts America lowest.

California, Florida and Texas had recent spikes in infections and deaths. Governors manage policy as far as what might be reopened, not the President, so I'm not sure what your point is.

Is your point that 2 of those states are currently run by Republicans? That would have nothing to do with Trump but it would be worth noting that these spikes are small in comparison to what was happening in the beginning of the Chi-Comm pandemic in Democrat run states.

Edited July 20, 2020 by Infidel Dog