America under President Trump

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, eyeball said:

Plus shit disturbers in your's....so sad.

 

???   That's OK...we like it...you just get to watch.

[eyeball]

1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Comparing America to North Korea in this regard is laughable. America Derangement Syndrome is a helluva drug.

Comparing Trump to Kim however is spot on.

[Yzermandius19]

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

???   That's OK...we like it...you just get to watch.

Canada's lack of boat rockers is a bug that most Canadians think is a feature. Sad.

[Yzermandius19]

3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Comparing Trump to Kim however is spot on.

Not at all. That's Trump Derangement Syndrome incarnate. Negotiating with Kim doesn't make you Kim.

Edited October 8, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[eyeball]

Just now, Yzermandius19 said:

Canada's lack of boat rockers is a bug that most Canadians think is a feature. Sad.

Most of those are conservatives who think its a good feature because its...you know, conservative.

[Yzermandius19]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

Most of those are conservatives who think its a good feature because its...you know, conservative.

Canada is not worth conserving.
/shrugs

[eyeball]

2 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Not at all. That's Trump Derangement Syndrome incarnate.

No its just concern over living next to a disturbed boat - rocker.

 

[Yzermandius19]

Just now, eyeball said:

No its just concern over living next to a disturbed boat - rocker.

 

Concern trolling is what it is. Ain't nothing wrong with Trump rocking the boat, that's a feature, not a bug.

[WestCanMan]

7 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Canadian voters will decide that in about two weeks...same as Trump in 2020.

Luckily in America the media coverage of scandals isn't as one-sided as it is here because you have a Fox News. We just have the Official State-Run CNN, the Private Sector CNN, and mini-CNNs that are sharing $600M of taxpayer money to help downplay the scandals and spread the propaganda.

Edited October 8, 2019 by WestCanMan

[Yzermandius19]

36 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Luckily in America the media coverage of scandals isn't as one-sided as it is here because you have a Fox News. We just have the Official State-Run CNN, the Private Sector CNN, and mini-CNNs that are sharing $600M of taxpayer money to help downplay the scandals and spread the propaganda.

State owned propaganda outlets for the fail.

[Boges]

9 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Not what happened. Zelensky asked about the Javelins and then like a minute later Trump asked for a favor, you cannot prove the two are related, you are just grasping at straws to claim Orange Man Done for the thousandth time.

Yeah it's just the next thing quoted in the transcript. 

The transcript says it's not "verbatim" but Trump, in saying his call was "perfect" says it was word for word. 

If you're going to call into question what when on between paragraphs, I'll call into question the ellipsis that show up in the transcript, what's missing? 

Also this chain of events is backed up by diplomats and the, now multiple, whistleblowers. 

So who exactly is grasping at straws? 

[Yzermandius19]

13 minutes ago, Boges said:

Yeah it's just the next thing quoted in the transcript. 

The transcript says it's not "verbatim" but Trump, in saying his call was "perfect" says it was word for word. 

If you're going to call into question what when on between paragraphs, I'll call into question the ellipsis that show up in the transcript, what's missing? 

Also this chain of events is backed up by diplomats and the, now multiple, whistleblowers. 

So who exactly is grasping at straws? 

It was like one page down, like a paragraph later, basically one minute later in the conversation, zero indication whether it's related to a quid pro quo or not. You graspin'.

All these "whistleblowers" are turning out to be Democrat partisans, grasping at straws just like you. The President is allowed to say what he wants, the intelligence community has more important shit to do than try and out him for saying something they don't like, these "whistleblowers" are not to be trusted. Until they present rock solid evidence, they should be dismissed out of hand, sh*t or get off the pot. Speculation based on flimsy evidence, at best, is just using "whistleblower" status as cover for obvious partisan hackery, in a lame attempt to remove a President they know Democrats can't beat in an election.

Edited October 8, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Boges]

14 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

It was like one page down, like a paragraph later, basically one minute later in the conversation, zero indication whether it's related to a quid pro quo or not. You graspin'.

Quote

President Zelenskyy: Yes you are absolutely right. Not only 100%, but actually 1000% and I can tell you the following; I did talk to Angela Merkel and I did meet with her I also met and talked with Macron and I told them that they are not doing quite as much as they need to be doing on the issues with the sanctions. They are not enforcing the sanctions. They are not working as much as they should work for Ukraine. It turns out that even though logically, the European Union should be our biggest partner but technically the United States is a much bigger partner than the European Union and I'm very grateful to you for that because the United States is doing quite a lot for Ukraine. Much more than the European Union especially when we are talking about sanctions against the Russian Federation. I would also like to thank you for your great support in the area of defense. We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost. ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes.

The President: I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike... I guess you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say Ukraine has it. There are a lot of things that went on, the whole situation. I think you're surrounding yourself with some of the same people. I would like to have the Attorney General call you or your people and I would like you to get to the bottom of it. As you saw yesterday, that whole nonsense ended with a very poor performance by a man named Robert Mueller, an incompetent performance, but they say a lot of it started with Ukraine. Whatever you can do, it's very important that you do it if that's possible.

In the first paragraph he talks about Crowdstrike. Which is hilarious because it's a crazy right-wing conspiracy theory. Trump even reminds him that the US does a lot for them. 

Then Zelenskyy placates him. I wonder why? The Military Funding Trump is holding up!!!

Quote

President Zelenskyy: Yes it is very important for me and everything that you just mentioned earlier. For me as a President, it is very important and we are open for any future cooperation. We are ready to open a new page on cooperation in relations between the United States and Ukraine. For that purpose, I just recalled our ambassador from United States and he will be replaced by a very competent and very experienced ambassador who will work hard on making sure that our two nations are getting closer. I would also like and hope to see him having your trust and your confidence and have personal relations with you so we can cooperate even more so. I will personally tell you that one of my assistants spoke with Mr. Giuliani just recently and we are hoping very much that Mr. Giuliani will be able to travel to Ukraine and we will meet once he comes to Ukraine. I just wanted to assure you once again that you have nobody but friends around us. I will make sure that I surround myself with the best and most experienced people. I also wanted to tell you that we are friends. We are great friends and you Mr. President have friends in our country so we can continue our strategic partnership. I also plan to surround myself with great people and in addition to that investigation, I guarantee as the President of Ukraine that all the investigations will be done openly and candidly.. That I can assure you.

Also confirming that Giuliani, not a government employee, has been acting as Trump's goon. Then we get. . . 

Quote

The President: Good because I heard you had a prosecutor who was very good and he was shut down and that's really unfair. A lot of people are talking about that, the way they shut your very good prosecutor down and you had some very bad people involved. Mr. Giuliani is a highly respected man. He was the mayor of New York City, a great mayor, and I would like him to call you. I will ask him to call you along with the Attorney General. Rudy very much knows what's happening and he is a very capable guy. If you could speak to him that would be great. The former ambassador from the United States, the woman, was bad news and the people she was dealing with in the Ukraine were bad news so I just want to let you know that. The other thing, There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it... It sounds horrible to me.

There's no pivot from anything beyond favours Ukraine can do for Trump after the Javelin comment. 

Edited October 8, 2019 by Boges

[Yzermandius19]

12 minutes ago, Boges said:

In the first paragraph he talks about Crowdstrike. Which is hilarious because it's a crazy right-win conspiracy theory. Trump even reminds him that the US does a lot for them. 

Then Zelenskyy placates him, 

Also confirming that Giuliani, not a government employee, has been acting as Trump's goon. Then we get. . . 

There's no pivot from anything beyond favours Ukraine can do for Trump after the Javelin comment. 

Can't prove the favor is about Biden, in fact he refers to past favors the US did for Ukraine right after he mentions a favor, doesn't mention he's withholding aid in lieu of a favor either, he just says he wants them to do him a favor and you are jumping to ridiculous conclusions based on that. 

Trump doesn't mention Biden until Zelensky brings up Giuliani, which is much later in the conversation, long after the favor was mentioned, and Trump didn't bring it up the subject. 

Certainly no proof there is a quid pro quo, especially one that benefits Trump and hurts US interests. You got nothing. Trump is allowed to make deals with foreign leaders, and ask for favors, there is nothing inherently bad about that, that's the way it's suppose to work. You are literally just making sh*t up to paint Trump in a negative light, and don't have a clue what you're talking about.

Edited October 8, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Boges]

12 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Can't prove the favor is about Biden, can't prove their is a quid pro quo.

1) You don't need a Quid Pro Quo to impeach. He's clearly asking for political help from another countries leader. 

2) The context is that money has been suspended and Zelensky wants a meeting with Trump. 

3) Have you read the text messages where diplomats confirm that this is about Military funding and a meeting with Trump? 

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/04/how-to-read-the-explosive-ukraine-texts-028139

Quote

VOLKER
7:01 PM JULY 19
Good. Had breakfast with Rudy this morning—teeing up call w Yermak Monday. Must have helped. Most impt is for Zelensky to say that he will help investigation—and address any specific personnel issues—if there are any.

Quote

TAYLOR
1:45 AM JULY 21
Gordon, one thing Kurt and I talked about yesterday was Sasha Danyliuk's point that President Zelenskyy is sensitive about Ukraine being taken seriously, not merely as an instrument in Washington domestic, reelection politics.

Quote

VOLKER
8:36 AM JULY 25
Good lunch — thanks. Heard from White House—Assuming President Z convinces trump he will investigate/"get to the bottom of what happened" in 2016, we will nail down date for visit to Washington. Good luck! See you tomorrow- kurt.

Quote

 

YERMAK
5:42 PM AUGUST 10
Once we have a date, will call for a press briefing, announcing upcoming visit and outlining vision for the reboot of US-UKRAINE relationship, including among other things Burisma and election meddling in investigations

VOLKER
5:42 PM AUGUST 10
Sounds great!

 

Quote

 

YERMAK
2:28 AM AUGUST 29
Need to talk with you

YERMAK
3:06 AM AUGUST 29
Trump holds up Ukraine military aid meant to confront Russia

VOLKER
6:55 AM AUGUST 29
Hi Andrey — absolutely. When is good for you?

 

Quote

 

SONDLAND
12:37 AM SEPT 9
Bill, I never said I was "right". I said we are where we are and believe we have identified the best pathway forward. Let's hope it works.

TAYLOR
12:47 AM SEPT 9
As I said on the phone, I think it's crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign.

SONDLAND
5:19 AM SEPT 9
I Believe you are incorrect about President Trump's intentions. The President has been clear no quid pro quo's of any kind. The President is trying to evaluate whether Ukraine is truly going to adopt the transparency and reforms that President Zelensky promised during his campaign I suggest we stop the back and forth by text If you still have concerns I recommend you give Lisa Kenna or a call to discuss them directly. Thanks.

So after Taylor mentions that it's insane that they're doing what's obviously a Quid Pro Quo, instead of immediately denying it, 5 hours pass and he gives a lawyered up comment and says they should talk about it on the phone going forward.

Something all innocent people do. 

Edited October 8, 2019 by Boges

[Yzermandius19]

5 minutes ago, Boges said:

1) You don't need a Quid Pro Quo to impeach. He's clearly asking for political help from another countries leader. 

2) The context is that money has been suspended and Zelensky wants a meeting with Trump. 

3) Have you read the text messages where diplomats confirm that this is about Military funding? 

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/04/how-to-read-the-explosive-ukraine-texts-028139

So after Taylor mentions that it's insane that they're doing what's obviously a Quid Pro Quo, instead of immediately denying it, 5 hours pass and he gives a lawyered up comment and says they should talk about it on the phone going forward.

Something all innocent people do. 

1) Nothing wrong with asking for a favor from a foreign government, every single POTUS has done that, it's not an impeachable offense, it's how negotiating with foreign countries works dumbass.

2) You have no proof that the money being suspended has anything to do with investigating Biden, you just assume based on anti-Trump biased speculation.

3) Diplomatic speculation with no proof, is not proof of anything, just more lame attempts at mind reading.

You have nothing.

 

Edited October 8, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Boges]

4 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

1)Nothing wrong with asking for a favor from a foreign government, every single POTUS has done that, it's not an impeachable offense, it's how negotiating with foreign countries works dumbass.

Cite involving a political rival. 

 

Quote

2)You have no proof that the money being suspended is the reason for the favor, you just assume based on anti-Trump biased speculation.

Yeah it was just a week earlier and it was forefront in Zelensky's call. And mentioned repeatedly in the previously quoted text messages. 

 

Quote

3)Diplomatic speculation with no proof, is not proof of anything.

Yeah it's just what the people who were actually co-ordinating all of this were talking about, that's all. 

 

BTW what is proof of anything? Trump being recorded saying this is a Quid Pro Quo for election help? That's the only thing that'll convince you? That's a mighty high bar.

I'm curious if that's the same bar you'd consider the SNC Lavalin scandal being a legit scandal.

Edited October 8, 2019 by Boges

[Yzermandius19]

4 minutes ago, Boges said:

Cite involving a political rival. 

 

Yeah it was just a week earlier and it was forefront in Zelensky's call. And mentioned in the previously quoted text messages. 

 

Yeah it's just what the people who were actually co-ordinating all of this were talking about, that's all. 

 

BTW what is proof of anything? Trump being recorded saying this is a Quid Pro Quo for election help? That's the only thing that'll convince you? That's a mighty high bar. 

If you don't have a smoking gun, then you've got nothing. Mind reading that you know what Trump meant based on text messages from a week before is not a smoking gun. If you don't have proof he did it, it's innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until proven innocent. The bar is supposed to be high, you dumb muthaf*ckah.

If you don't have proof Trump was withholding military aid in exchange for a Biden investigation, then shut the f*ck up until you do. Enough of assuming he's guilty until proven otherwise because some breadcrumbs might lean that way if you squint real hard to try and see it.

Edited October 8, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Boges]

Just now, Yzermandius19 said:

If you don't have a smoking gun, then you've got nothing. Mind reading that you know what Trump meant based on text messages from a week before is not a smoking gun. If you don't have proof he did it, it's innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until proven innocent.

Not in impeachment. This is not a legal proceeding, it's a political one. I think intelligent people can draw their own conclusions. 

And gaining popularity. 

Quote

A new poll out Tuesday from the Washington Post and the Schar School of Policy and Government at George Mason University shows dramatic shifts in support of the impeachment process with 58 percent of the country now saying they support the impeachment inquiry and nearly half—49 percent—saying they support removing Trump from office.

 

[Yzermandius19]

4 minutes ago, Boges said:

Not in impeachment. This is not a legal proceeding, it's a political one. I think intelligent people can draw their own conclusions. 

And gaining popularity. 

 

If you have no proof of a crime, impeachment will never be successful in removing Trump from office, and will just empower Trump. Hell even if you have proof of a crime, it isn't likely to work, ask Bill Clinton if you don't believe me. It is not politically expedient to impeach with no proof of a crime. All the other polls show it's unpopular, even if the inquiry is popular, actually impeaching Trump is not, even according to your cherry picked poll.

Edited October 8, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Boges]

4 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

If you have no proof of a crime, impeachment will never be successful, and will just empower Trump.

Such definitive words. Go on and believe that. 

I like the Chicken and the Egg of a Crime. The Mueller Report revealed many potential crimes Trump may have participated in. But he's protected by the DOJ opinion of a sitting POTUS not being able to be indicted. 

So the remedy to that is impeachment. But you're saying that you need a proven crime to impeach?

So he's protected either way in your world. 

Edited October 8, 2019 by Boges

[Rue]

To claim what Trump is doing is "rocking the boat" is like many of the other excuses by Trump supporters on this board at this point lame.

Each day his deranged thought patterns threaten US interests and US allies even further.

Referring to himself as he just did in a tweet in the bizarre narcissistic reference he did shows not just mental illness but a lowering of his position to the same noise made by tin pot dictators. He obviously is taking a page from Juche scripts( no I did not spell Jewish wrong).

Not only is Trump sending out embarrassing mentally ill tweets but he has now abandon the KurdsHe  has signalled any ally of the US that as long as Trump is in office he can not be trusted. Kurds died as front line allies to the US and allied forces in Syria doing much of the dirty work taking down ISIS and now Trump throws them under the bus to Erdogan who is engaged n a genocide against Kurds and Trump's answer to that is he will destroy Turkey economically as he has before if they do anything? When did he destroy Turkey? How many delusions must you Trump supporters ignore?

This is what you Trump apologists want to now wash over? Go ahead. This man is in self destruct. To abandon one of your closest allies and tell them they were only in it for the money fighting ISIS is repulsive. Kurds fought in Syria the same reason they fight in Turkey, Iraq, Iran, they are under direct, immediate existential threat by Syria, Turkey and Iran. They fight because the alternative is genocide. Why would anyone accuse Kurds in a battle against their own self destruction only doing it for money who is in their right mind?

He has the audacity to call these people mercenaries? He has the audacity to describe their battle as simply  based on getting money? He is a deranged ahole for saying that.

I can not imagine what the US military now thinks. The only reason Trump remains in office is because the US military intelligence network prefers him to the former Obama CIA network they were dead against. Now what. He has thrown a clear anti terrorist ally under the bus and ordered his troops out of Syria to create a vacuum so ISIS can come right back in. Tell me this man is not a Putin-Erdogan puppet. Go on defend this piece of excrement.

Edited October 8, 2019 by Rue

[Yzermandius19]

Just now, Boges said:

Such definitive words. Go on and believe that. 

I like the Chicken and the Egg of a Crime. The Mueller Report revealed many potential crimes Trump may have participated in. But he's protected by the DOJ opinion of a sitting POTUS not being able to be indicted. 

So the remedy to that is impeachment. But you're saying that you need a proven crime to impeach? So he's protected either way in your world. 

The Mueller report revealed no crimes. Potential is irrelevant, proof is relevant. Impeachment will do nothing but make Trump stronger, he ain't getting removed with no proof of a crime, and even if they eventually find the proof which they don't currently have, it still might not work unless it's a particularly bad crime, lying under oath isn't even enough, as Bill Clinton shows.

[Yzermandius19]

3 minutes ago, Rue said:

now abandon the Kurds.

Wanh! Trump refuses to engage in needless wars any longer, and chase Middle Eastern Dominoes, what a dick!

Derp.
 

Edited October 8, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Boges]

5 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

The Mueller report revealed no crimes. Potential is irrelevant, proof is relevant. Impeachment will do nothing but make Trump stronger, he ain't getting removed with no proof of a crime, and even if they eventually find the proof which they don't currently have, it still might not work unless it's a particularly bad crime, lying under oath isn't even enough, as Bill Clinton shows.

Again, chicken or egg. It did reveal evidence of Obstruction of Justice but a DOJ opinion says he can't be indicted. 

So as you say, Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law can't apply when you can't even charge him of a crime. 

So the solution would be impeachment. 

The question remains, why not wait until next year to remove him from office via election? 

I would argue when there's evidence Trump is using the power of his office to target political rivals, which is something dictators do. You need to say enough is enough and add some oversight to such behaviour.