America under President Trump

[Rue]

30 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

If the Democrats impeach with no evidence, they are hanging themselves, if they impeach with shitty evidence, they are also hanging themselves. Without a smoking gun, this isn't going to be Nixon all over again.

Strongly agree.

[Rue]

29 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Have you never heard of the Domino Theory that lead America to charge into Vietnam because otherwise the entire far east would fall to Communism and Vietnam was simply the first domino to fall that would lead to all the others falling, so they had to stop it from falling?

Same thing, now apply that to terrorism and the middle east, same idiotic strategy repackaged, same mistaken assumption fueling that idiotic strategy. Repeating the same mistakes over and over and expecting different results is insanity.

Terrorists aren't a monolith anymore than the Communists were, and they spend more time fighting each other, than they do fighting America. No need to go chasing dominoes, the Domino Theory was wrong then, and it's wrong now.

Yes I did and with due respect equating the domino theory during the cold war to terrorism is not the same.  Y  I get the hegemony that goes on. If you want to criticize all nations for hegemony and carving up the world for their business interests I get that. Fighting terrorism is another issue. Terrorism and or the genocide of Kurds are different issues. I would argue there is a different moral imperative. That said my answers to you are a tad shrill because I have witnessed terrorism. Sorry. I am arguing the point not you. I went too far and have edited a past post.

[Yzermandius19]

6 minutes ago, Rue said:

Yes I did and with due respect equating the domino theory during the cold war to terrorism is not the same.  Y  I get the hegemony that goes on. If you want to criticize all nations for hegemony and carving up the world for their business interests I get that. Fighting terrorism is another issue. Terrorism and or the genocide of Kurds are different issues. I would argue there is a different moral imperative. That said my answers to you are a tad shrill because I have witnessed terrorism. Sorry. I am arguing the point not you. I went too far and have edited a past post.

It's the same rationale being used for a different issue. It's just a bad idea to go chasing after terrorists in the middle east, same as it was when they were chasing Communists in the middle east, which is what helped create the terrorists in the middle east in the first place. America literally created more dominoes to chase by trying to chase other dominoes, it's self fulfilling prophecy that leads to constant quagmire.

Huffing Humanitarian Pixie Dust as justification for chasing dominoes leads to bad foreign policy errors and quagmires. I've seen this show before many times, you may be keen for America to keep making the same mistakes over and over again, but I am not.

Edited October 8, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Rue]

3 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

It's the same rationale being used for a different issue. It's just a bad idea to go chasing after terrorists in the middle east, same as it was when they were chasing Communists in the middle east.

Huffing Humanitarian Pixie Dust as justification for chasing dominoes leads to bad foreign policy errors and quagmires. I've seen this show before many times, you may be keen for America to keep making the same mistakes over and over again, but I am not.

Disagree strongly for the reasons I stated but I went back and deleted the personal references to you Y, they were uncalled for.  I strongly believe we must contain terror all over the Globe and not think it goes away if it is not in our back yard. I disagree with your isolationist stance.

[Yzermandius19]

10 minutes ago, Rue said:

Disagree strongly for the reasons I stated but I went back and deleted the personal references to you Y, they were uncalled for.  I strongly believe we must contain terror all over the Globe and not think it goes away if it is not in our back yard. I disagree with your isolationist stance.

It's not Isolationist, it's called Containment.

It works better than looking for foreign dragons to slay which just creates more foreign dragons to slay. Containment is what won the Cold War, not chasing Dominoes in the Far East and Middle East, you're strategy is a failed one, mine has proven historically successful. Never make the same mistake twice, let alone over and over again with the misguided belief that good intentions will create a better outcome magically.

The terrorists will kill themselves fighting other terrorists, you don't have to do it for them, just get out of their way, they'll take care of the rest, just as the Communists did, and they were an infinitely bigger threat to America than Islamic terrorists.

 

Edited October 8, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Cannucklehead]

It's sad when a president claims that the military has less ammunition than their citizens.  

[bush_cheney2004]

2 hours ago, Boges said:

I would argue when there's evidence Trump is using the power of his office to target political rivals, which is something dictators do. You need to say enough is enough and add some oversight to such behaviour. 

 

Nope...it is also something that many presidents and prime ministers do, and have done.   

[Yzermandius19]

54 minutes ago, Cannucklehead said:

It's sad when a president claims that the military has less ammunition than their citizens.  

Feature, not a bug. That's the whole point of the second amendment.

Edited October 8, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Boges]

41 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Nope...it is also something that many presidents and prime ministers do, and have done.   

You've failed to cite very many. 

[bush_cheney2004]

18 minutes ago, Boges said:

You've failed to cite very many. 

 

How many does it take to trump your denials ?   

[WestCanMan]

1)A key point in all of this is that Trump had already sent a shipment of Javelin missiles to Ukraine in April.

2)Based on the above, Trump's comment to the effect that he had the second aid shipment on hold while he was trying to get other NATO countries to step up to the plate, instead of the US just giving them even more aid while the rest of NATO still did nothing, definitely holds water. Trump has publicly (and successfully) gone after NATO leaders before to get them to chip in (and CNN hates him for it), any sane person has reason to believe that Trump was actually pressuring other leaders over this as well. 

3)If Trump meddled then there are now two people who involved foreigners in their election meddling: 

3A) Hillary started getting foreigners to meddle in the 2016 election before it started and there is not one Dem who ever said there was anything wrong with Hillary doing that. Not one Dem, and none of the people who are pushing impeachment ver 3.0 complained about Hillary covertly buying foreign help either. Her people even got a FISA warrant issued to spy on Americans based on her bogus, foreign-bought information and all of the Dems think that's ok too. They also set up an entrapment meeting with a Russian. They also tried to coerce false testimony out of Paul Manafort after they threw him in jail for things that they knew he did twenty years ago.

3B) Trump, who was aware of some very blatant influence peddling which Biden even bragged about. He knew that Biden's family raked in over $2.5B in business/salary from foreign countries while Joe was VP and if you can't admit that's extremely suspicious then you're a child. Joe said that he never knew his son got hired at Burisma and he said that he never talked to him about Burisma and then a picture surfaced of him with his son and a Burisma board member golfing. He then had to admit that he had blatantly lied about knowing about his son's dealings with Burisma. 

So, Trump has a good reason to freely ask about information. Hillary on the other hand paid money to foreigners to get a warrant to spy on Americans when there was no good reason for it. You could make the case that her whole investigation into Trump was just started to get something else on him. IE, it was a Lavrentiy Beria style "you show me the man and I'll find the crime" investigation. AKA Stalinesque justice in America.

[Boges]

2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

How many does it take to trump your denials ?   

More than one. 

[bush_cheney2004]

23 minutes ago, Boges said:

More than one. 

 

Already gave you two...FDR & JFK.

 

[Cannucklehead]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

1)A key point in all of this is that Trump had already sent a shipment of Javelin missiles to Ukraine in April.

2)Based on the above, Trump's comment to the effect that he had the second aid shipment on hold while he was trying to get other NATO countries to step up to the plate, instead of the US just giving them even more aid while the rest of NATO still did nothing, definitely holds water. Trump has publicly (and successfully) gone after NATO leaders before to get them to chip in (and CNN hates him for it), any sane person has reason to believe that Trump was actually pressuring other leaders over this as well. 

3)If Trump meddled then there are now two people who involved foreigners in their election meddling: 

3A) Hillary started getting foreigners to meddle in the 2016 election before it started and there is not one Dem who ever said there was anything wrong with Hillary doing that. Not one Dem, and none of the people who are pushing impeachment ver 3.0 complained about Hillary covertly buying foreign help either. Her people even got a FISA warrant issued to spy on Americans based on her bogus, foreign-bought information and all of the Dems think that's ok too. They also set up an entrapment meeting with a Russian. They also tried to coerce false testimony out of Paul Manafort after they threw him in jail for things that they knew he did twenty years ago.

3B) Trump, who was aware of some very blatant influence peddling which Biden even bragged about. He knew that Biden's family raked in over $2.5B in business/salary from foreign countries while Joe was VP and if you can't admit that's extremely suspicious then you're a child. Joe said that he never knew his son got hired at Burisma and he said that he never talked to him about Burisma and then a picture surfaced of him with his son and a Burisma board member golfing. He then had to admit that he had blatantly lied about knowing about his son's dealings with Burisma. 

So, Trump has a good reason to freely ask about information. Hillary on the other hand paid money to foreigners to get a warrant to spy on Americans when there was no good reason for it. You could make the case that her whole investigation into Trump was just started to get something else on him. IE, it was a Lavrentiy Beria style "you show me the man and I'll find the crime" investigation. AKA Stalinesque justice in America.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/defense-national-security/top-nato-general-has-had-zero-conversations-with-us-allies-about-increasing-military-aid-to-ukraine%3f_amp=true

Not one conversation.  Just more "fake news" from the world's best supplier of manure.  

Biden has an estimated value of 9-10 million.  I don't know where this baloney of billions comes from.  

https://www.grassley.senate.gov/news/news-releases/grassley-johnson-renew-inquiry-doj-actions-reported-election-meddling

Reports and claims that they have been trying to send to the justice department since 2017 about Clinton interfering with the election.  Is is really that hard to send a letter?  In this day and age?  

Also the "Ukraine gas exec" in that pic was an american named Devon Archer.  

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/article235876792.html

Pictured is trump with ukraine "gas executives"

Please stop posting fake news.  

[Cannucklehead]

32 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Already gave you two...FDR & JFK.

 

Neither was impeached at any time....are you sure on that? 

I know Nixon beat the impeachment by resigning. 

Only two presidents have been through an impeachment and both times there were not enough votes.  

[bush_cheney2004]

6 minutes ago, Cannucklehead said:

Neither was impeached at any time....are you sure on that? 

I know Nixon beat the impeachment by resigning. 

Only two presidents have been through an impeachment and both times there were not enough votes.  

 

Two U.S. presidents have been impeached....A. Johnson and B. Clinton.

FDR & JFK were offered as just two examples of U.S. presidents using their office against political opponents, same as Trump.

[Cannucklehead]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Two U.S. presidents have been impeached....A. Johnson and B. Clinton.

FDR & JFK were offered as just two examples of U.S. presidents using their office against political opponents, same as Trump.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/time.com/5552679/impeached-presidents/%3famp=true

 

Impeaching an American President is rare. It’s only happened twice in American history — to Presidents Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton — and neither of those times resulted in a president being removed from office.

 

Please cite facts, otherwise it's just "fake news" imo.  

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Cannucklehead said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/time.com/5552679/impeached-presidents/%3famp=true

 

Impeaching an American President is rare. It’s only happened twice in American history — to Presidents Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton — and neither of those times resulted in a president being removed from office.

 

Please cite facts, otherwise it's just "fake news" imo.  

 

???   Once again, impeachment and conviction in the Senate are two very different things.

They were both impeached, regardless of the outcome.

[WestCanMan]

27 minutes ago, Cannucklehead said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/defense-national-security/top-nato-general-has-had-zero-conversations-with-us-allies-about-increasing-military-aid-to-ukraine%3f_amp=true

Not one conversation.  Just more "fake news" from the world's best supplier of manure.  

Biden has an estimated value of 9-10 million.  I don't know where this baloney of billions comes from.  

https://www.grassley.senate.gov/news/news-releases/grassley-johnson-renew-inquiry-doj-actions-reported-election-meddling

Reports and claims that they have been trying to send to the justice department since 2017 about Clinton interfering with the election.  Is is really that hard to send a letter?  In this day and age?  

Also the "Ukraine gas exec" in that pic was an american named Devon Archer.  

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/article235876792.html

Pictured is trump with ukraine "gas executives"

Please stop posting fake news.  

You talk about fake news, but it's just your own understanding that's the problem.

Just because companies that his family runs bring in $2.5B in business doesn't mean that he personally gets $2.5 billion for himself. It means that his son, brother, etc get huge incomes that they wouldn't get if you weren't peddling something from the government. You should have been able to figure that out without me telling you.

Secondly, there's no requirement that all the money that they make overseas has to come back to the US and get on the books.

Just like Trudeau and his Finance Minister have offshore tax-haven accounts, it's also really really really really really really likely that Biden does too. And Hunter, etc.

Devon Archer was tied to Burisma as well. The photo just shows Biden at a time when he stated unequivocally that he "didn't know that his son had a $50K/month job in the Ukraine and didn't talk to him about it", because everything was so legit. 

[Cannucklehead]

Archer is an American who worked with Hunter Biden as a paid board member for Burisma — a role that’s different from a "Ukraine gas exec," as the video claimed. Board members are not typically involved in day-to-day operations of a company. And calling Archer a "Ukraine gas exec" may lead people to believe he’s Ukrainian, when he’s not.

 

I still don't buy it.  Trump may be fooling people with outlandish claims and speculation with zero evidence while crying about people doing the same to him( and yet there are so many factual claims) but I dont buy his garbage.  

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Cannucklehead said:

I still don't buy it.  Trump may be fooling people with outlandish claims and speculation with zero evidence while crying about people doing the same to him( and yet there are so many factual claims) but I dont buy his garbage.  

 

Doesn't matter what you believe...the allegations have long political legs, which is Trump's intended purpose.

[Cannucklehead]

9 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Doesn't matter what you believe...the allegations have long political legs, which is Trump's intended purpose.

Yes they definitely Do.  I love this part:

Parnas has been sued over everything from a small-claims debt owed to a furniture maker in Delray Beach to unpaid legal bills to a $100,000 loan issued to a natural gas firm he runs with Fruman. 

 

These guys have the makings of something out of a Tom Clancy novel. 

[WestCanMan]

3 hours ago, Cannucklehead said:

Archer is an American who worked with Hunter Biden as a paid board member for Burisma — a role that’s different from a "Ukraine gas exec," as the video claimed. Board members are not typically involved in day-to-day operations of a company. And calling Archer a "Ukraine gas exec" may lead people to believe he’s Ukrainian, when he’s not.

 

I still don't buy it.  Trump may be fooling people with outlandish claims and speculation with zero evidence while crying about people doing the same to him( and yet there are so many factual claims) but I dont buy his garbage.  

You say "zero evidence" when there's a video of Joe Biden bragging that he got the prosecutor investigating Burisma fired. Not only that, he clearly stated that he used $1B in US aid as the leverage to do it. He also stated that he "put a guy in his place that was solid". And guess what? That guy never investigated Burisma. Do you know what the reason was for firing the first guy? He was "lazy" on investigating corruption. So they hired a guy who was more energetic and yet he didn't bother to investigate Burisma. 

Joe stated unequivocally that he had no knowledge of his son's job there. That lie was exposed by a photo. So now you have a video, a photo, and proof that Joe lied about his knowledge of his son's "completely random hiring". Like as if Burisma scoured the earth for potential candidates and the best match was some random guy from the USA who had never worked in gas and oil before. The fact that his dad was the VP of the USA and was heavily involved in the Ukraine had nothing to do with it, as per canucklehead's official statement.

Why on earth would Joe tell people that he had no idea that his son was working at Burisma before he went after the prosecutor investigating Burisma? 

Are you honestly telling me that you see ZERO EVIDENCE? Zero? Dude, I'm calling you a straight up liar if you can't see enough evidence that an investigation needs to be conducted here. 

[Cannucklehead]

3 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

You say "zero evidence" when there's a video of Joe Biden bragging that he got the prosecutor investigating Burisma fired. Not only that, he clearly stated that he used $1B in US aid as the leverage to do it. He also stated that he "put a guy in his place that was solid". And guess what? That guy never investigated Burisma. Do you know what the reason was for firing the first guy? He was "lazy" on investigating corruption. So they hired a guy who was more energetic and yet he didn't bother to investigate Burisma. 

Joe stated unequivocally that he had no knowledge of his son's job there. That lie was exposed by a photo. So now you have a video, a photo, and proof that Joe lied about his knowledge of his son's "completely random hiring". Like as if Burisma scoured the earth for potential candidates and the best match was some random guy from the USA who had never worked in gas and oil before. The fact that his dad was the VP of the USA and was heavily involved in the Ukraine had nothing to do with it, as per canucklehead's official statement.

Why on earth would Joe tell people that he had no idea that his son was working at Burisma before he went after the prosecutor investigating Burisma? 

Are you honestly telling me that you see ZERO EVIDENCE? Zero? Dude, I'm calling you a straight up liar if you can't see enough evidence that an investigation needs to be conducted here. 

Wrong.  Loans are not aid.  Dude in photo is NOT a ukraine citizen, nor is he an executive. 

This is how trump operates, slightly leaving out and twisting key facts that brainwashed people buy into.  

[WestCanMan]

51 minutes ago, Cannucklehead said:

Wrong.  Loans are not aid.  Dude in photo is NOT a ukraine citizen, nor is he an executive. 

The Ukrainian Govt needed those loan guarantees, so they had literally no choice but do Biden's bidding. Don't split hairs. It's the same as lying when you know how dishonest you're being.

He could be Latvian. Or a Martian in disguise. Makes no difference where he's from. It makes a difference that he's a member of the board where Hunter Biden had the $50K per month job that "his dad didn't know about".

Quote

 brainwashed people  

Talk about brainwashed. "I didn't hear it on CNN, the place where I get all my misleading information from. It can't go into my brain. Access denied!!! Access denied!!!" 

Dude what was the last thing CNN got right?