Argus Posted May 16, 2017 Report Share Posted May 16, 2017 Just now, Omni said: Unfortunately in this type of case you need more than memos. We need the tapes, if they exist. They may well exist. I've been seeing stories about how Trump was known to bug his employees in Trump tower because he didn't trust them, and at his golf course too. God knows he doesn't trust people in the White House. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted May 16, 2017 Report Share Posted May 16, 2017 (edited) 1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said: This is supposed to be a black mark against Russia? Seriously... No, it's a response to your suggestion Russia isn't dangerous because it doesn't have as big a military force as it once had. I would say, however, that when you (the west) have been steadily building down your military for years, and your two biggest military rivals, Russia and China, keep increasing their military budgets by double digits every year, it's time to do some serious rethinking. Edited May 16, 2017 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted May 16, 2017 Report Share Posted May 16, 2017 Just now, Argus said: They may well exist. I've been seeing stories about how Trump was known to bug his employees in Trump tower because he didn't trust them, and at his golf course too. God knows he doesn't trust people in the White House. That he asked all but Comey to leave the Oval Office for the ongoing conversation is evfidence that those who were asked to leave could testify to. That focuses a spotlight somewhat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 16, 2017 Report Share Posted May 16, 2017 Just now, Argus said: No, it's a response to your suggestion Russia isn't dangerous because it doesn't have as big a military force as it once had. Didn't say they weren't dangerous. Those be YOUR words. I'm saying that my Cold War hangover doesn't include automatically putting Russia into the ENEMY seat. Yours does. The enemy is Islam. The universally loathed death cult causing the majority of the planet's conflicts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted May 16, 2017 Report Share Posted May 16, 2017 I previously had thought that this first international trip could be an interesting expansion of the gong show, especially given the countries he will visit, but to have to embark with this latest shadow hanging over his head certainly brings me forward on my seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted May 16, 2017 Report Share Posted May 16, 2017 How seriously will heads of state take him if they reckon he's about to be taken to the woodshed, and he ain't coming back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 16, 2017 Report Share Posted May 16, 2017 6 minutes ago, Argus said: I would say, however, that when you (the west) have been steadily building down your military for years, and your two biggest military rivals, Russia and China, keep increasing their military budgets by double digits every year, it's time to do some serious rethinking. But Canada has been doing some serious rethinking...Team Trudeau has pushed military procurement out even further. Trump can't/won't save Europe or Canada from Putin...or themselves. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted May 17, 2017 Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 33 minutes ago, Argus said: Lots of them, all around the world. But I believe Mitt Romney was correct in that Russia is the most dangerous in the short to medium term. China may be in the long term. "Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal 9000 Posted May 17, 2017 Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 10 hours ago, kimmy said: During the 2012 election, when Mitt Romney said that Russia was the west's greatest geopolitical threat, many of us scoffed and said "come on... clearly it's Islamic terror." For 3 and a half years, Republican supporters took great delight in pointing out that Romney was right. Russia annexes Crimea? Romney was right! Russia takes in Edward Snowden? Romney was right! Russia massing troops on the border with Ukraine? Romney was right! Russia flexing its muscles in the Middle East? Romney was right! That narrative shifted last summer. Suddenly, around the time that people started talking about Trump's ties to Russia, Republican boosters stopped talking about how Romney was right and started talking about how Russians are great. Russians are fun and friendly! They want to fight terrorists too! Expanding into Eastern Europe? Well? What did Eastern Europe ever do for us? Wars are bad! Peace is good! Let's be friends with Russia! -k The obvious other side of the equation is that not one single Democrat gave Russia a second thought while Putin was bending over Obama, but low and behold on Nov. 9th Putin and Russia became the biggest threats to the world - so much that the Dems are trying to produce another cold war. BTW - Russia had every right to take over Crimea, Snowden is just a meh!, and had Obama not bungled Syria, relations with Putin might actually be better for the US. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted May 17, 2017 Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said: BTW - Russia had every right to take over Crimea They certainly did not. Ever heard of the Budapest Memorandum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted May 17, 2017 Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 6 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said: The obvious other side of the equation is that not one single Democrat gave Russia a second thought while Putin was bending over Obama, but low and behold on Nov. 9th Putin and Russia became the biggest threats to the world - so much that the Dems are trying to produce another cold war. Are you sure? I seem to remember a lot of concern when Russia invaded Crimea and started lining up troops on the border with Ukraine. Given increasing Russian aggression towards eastern Europe and increasing Russian influence in the Middle East, I think it's clear that yeah, Romney *was* right. Given Russian actions of the past few years, what's the basis behind this new Republican notion that the Russians are actually fun and friendly? Aside from trying to justify Trump's bizarre appeasement of Putin, what is the motive behind this new effort among the "right" to reimagine the Russians as the good-guys? 6 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said: BTW - Russia had every right to take over Crimea, Snowden is just a meh!, and had Obama not bungled Syria, relations with Putin might actually be better for the US. Russia had the right to take over Crimea? Aside from "might makes right", which right are you referencing? Stephen Harper certainly didn't think Russia was right to do so, and told Putin so in person. Snowden was such a "meh" that Trump himself was calling for Snowden's execution for giving "serious information" to the Russians. Obama's handling of Syria certainly bears criticism, but given the long-standing American tradition of picking sides in proxy-wars in key regions, I don't think he's much different from his predecessors. -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 17, 2017 Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 Romney lost the election...President Trump didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted May 17, 2017 Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 1 hour ago, DogOnPorch said: The longing for the fallen Queen apparent continues. Oh good grief. The election was 6 months ago, and everybody knows that the next president is going to be Pence (or possibly Ryan, depending on how much Pence knew and when.) And it's becoming increasingly obvious that either Pence or Ryan would be a great improvement over letting this incompetent clown keep up this increasingly serious parade of blunders. -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted May 17, 2017 Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Romney lost the election...President Trump didn't. Yes. Trump is a great salesman. Unfortunately it's becoming more obvious each day that he's a dismal president. -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted May 17, 2017 Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Romney lost the election...President Trump didn't. And just over one hundred days in, he seems likely to be headed for the door. Wouldn't that be some kind of record? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 17, 2017 Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 Just now, kimmy said: Yes. Trump is a great salesman. Unfortunately it's becoming more obvious each day that he's a dismal president. Doesn't matter in politics....winner goes to the white house....loser goes home. Just ask Hillary Clinton. Plus he is not your president. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted May 17, 2017 Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Doesn't matter in politics....winner goes to the white house....loser goes home. Just ask Hillary Clinton. Plus he is not your president. And this loser will likely end up in front of the house, and then he'll go home too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted May 17, 2017 Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 One of the recurring Republican talking points of the past few years is what a terrible job Obama was doing with American-Israeli relations. They made a big deal about it during the election. They made a big deal about Trump going to the airport to give Bibi a warm welcome on the tarmac. "Obama wouldn't stand with Israel, but we will!" That was the talk. Well, Obama may have lectured the Israelis about settlements, but he never went out and blabbed top-secret Israeli intelligence to Israel's enemies. Russia may not be Israel's enemy, directly, but Iran and Syria certainly are, and Russia enjoys friendly relations with both countries. Israel is mad as hell about this. In the future they will think twice about sharing information with Washington. Trump's most important job is the safety of American citizens. Trump made Americans less safe by blabbing Israeli secrets to the Russians. You Trump cheerleaders can try to spin that he didn't do anything that's technically illegal, or that this isn't that big a deal, or that he's the President and can do whatever he wanted, but the bottom line is that this was a massive blunder. This is a blunder that makes Americans less safe. This is a blunder that damages the trust between the United States and its most important Middle East ally. This is a blunder that demonstrates that the big orange clown is not fit to remain in office. You can deny it, but deep inside, you guys know it. The only guy who thinks this is a great development is the member who thinks that Trump is here to save the world from Da Jooooos. -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 17, 2017 Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, kimmy said: You can deny it, but deep inside, you guys know it. Nonsense....President Trump will have to work overtime to match President Obama's historical foreign policy blunders. Americans need more protection from Trudeau's policies for refugees and immigrants than from Putin/Russia. Go Trump ! Edited May 17, 2017 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 17, 2017 Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 Quote Russia had the right to take over Crimea? The Crimea, while a distinct region with its own aspirations and such, has been thoroughly engaged with the Russians since the mid 1700s. The Ottoman Empire was forced to grant the Crimea independence as result of losing the Russo-Turkish War which then came under the influence of the Russian Empire. This continued more or less as-is until Nikita Khrushchev transferred the Crimea Oblast to the Ukrainian-SSR in 1954. This "opened the door" so to speak to Crimean nationalistic ambitions. Modern Russia has strategic interests in the Crimea...most notably the warm-water naval base at Sevastopol which it isn't just going to hand-over to anybody (anymore). And war is politics by other means...after-all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted May 17, 2017 Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 6 minutes ago, kimmy said: You Trump cheerleaders can try to spin that he didn't do anything that's technically illegal, or that this isn't that big a deal, or that he's the President and can do whatever he wanted, but the bottom line is that this was a massive blunder. This is a blunder that makes Americans less safe. -k For those Canadian Trump supporters; Canadians rely on intel supplied by Americans. When allies no longer trust Trump with their intel then we suffer. Trump is no friend of Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted May 17, 2017 Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Nonsense.... So all that stuff Republicans have been spouting for years about the damage Obama was doing to American-Israeli relations, that was just for show? Because the great orange god did more harm to American-Israeli relations in one day than Obama did in 8 years. -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 17, 2017 Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: ...Modern Russia has strategic interests in the Crimea...most notably the warm-water naval base at Sevastopol which it isn't just going to hand-over to anybody (anymore). And war is politics by other means...after-all. Agreed....Trump was not president when Putin moved on Crimea anyway...it was their real American fave...Obama. Canada didn't do a damn thing either. Edited May 17, 2017 by bush_cheney2004 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 17, 2017 Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, WestCoastRunner said: For those Canadian Trump supporters; Canadians rely on intel supplied by Americans. When allies no longer trust Trump with their intel then we suffer. Trump is no friend of Canada. Agreed...maybe Canada should spend more money on intelligence gathering instead of depending so much on Trump's America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted May 17, 2017 Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: And war is politics by other means...after-all. So you think it's ok that Trump betrayed Israel to the ally of Syria and Iran? -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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