DogOnPorch Posted October 12, 2019 Report Share Posted October 12, 2019 Just now, Cannucklehead said: Lol ok mr I love terrorists. I accept your surrender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannucklehead Posted October 12, 2019 Report Share Posted October 12, 2019 Just now, DogOnPorch said: Yet you won't even fight alongside your Kurdish allies. To clean up your mess? Clean up your own crap, we aren't your servants ya know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted October 12, 2019 Report Share Posted October 12, 2019 Just now, Cannucklehead said: To clean up your mess? Clean up your own crap, we aren't your servants ya know? Not my mess. But they are your friend that you're hanging out to dry. Stay safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannucklehead Posted October 12, 2019 Report Share Posted October 12, 2019 Just now, DogOnPorch said: Not my mess. But they are your friend that you're hanging out to dry. Stay safe. Yes, you are right. The u.s. made the mess. My mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted October 12, 2019 Report Share Posted October 12, 2019 Just now, Cannucklehead said: Yes, you are right. The u.s. made the mess. My mistake. You're free to blame anyone you like. All from the safety of your hand rolled Cuban cigar. Stay safe...and warm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannucklehead Posted October 12, 2019 Report Share Posted October 12, 2019 1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said: You're free to blame anyone you like. All from the safety of your hand rolled Cuban cigar. Stay safe...and warm. I will. Very much so. Sadly I cannot say the same for the Kurds or the u.s. troops being shipped to saudi like cattle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted October 12, 2019 Report Share Posted October 12, 2019 (edited) 50 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: You can fool yourself if you wish, but Canada does have such problems (e.g. First Nations). The Clarity Act and Notwithstanding Clause are open invitations for such fractures to continue as they are normalized. But the Americans should be doing better ? The U.S. was never designed for direct democracy...it is a constitutional republic. Conflict and competing interests are a feature, not a bug. I disagree. It’s a bug for sure, as it’s apparent that both political parties are willing to sacrifice the good of the country if it means hurting the other party. Polarization means that sensible policies are chucked because they might upset the party or have too much in common with the opposition. We see this with policy on Iran and Saudi Arabia, and on trade and foreign intervention. One party opposes Russia in Syria so the other party looks the other way on Russia. Mind you, with Trump it’s hard not to wonder whose interests his policies best serve, Russia or America. Edited October 12, 2019 by Zeitgeist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 12, 2019 Report Share Posted October 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: I disagree. It’s a bug for sure, as it’s apparent that both political parties are willing to sacrifice the good of the country if it means hurting the other party. Polarization means that sensible policies are chucked because they might upset the party or have too much in common with the opposition. We see this with policy on Iran and Saudi Arabia, and on trade and foreign intervention. One party opposes Russia in Syria so the other party looks the other way on Russia. Mind you, with Trump it’s hard not to wonder whose interests his policies best serve, Russia or America. History reports that the United States has grown stronger and stronger under the current system, so your point is moot. Your strong dislike for Trump or current party politics is a very narrow perspective that ignores over 200 years of American history. Many Canadians know more about American civics/history than their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted October 12, 2019 Report Share Posted October 12, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said: History reports that the United States has grown stronger and stronger under the current system, so your point is moot. Your strong dislike for Trump or current party politics is a very narrow perspective that ignores over 200 years of American history. Many Canadians know more about American civics/history than their own. Well on your first point, I’m not sure how you measure progress, as it’s quite arguable America has regressed in at least some important respects: environment, corruption of democracy, social cohesion, tolerance of foreign ways, etc. On your second point, I can’t think of a politician in recent history that I’ve strongly liked. My concern about Trump is that rather than reforming and strengthening institutions that have protected freedom, free enterprise, and trade domestically and internationally, he has attacked and sought to dismantle them. He has damaged relations with allies and tried to take a zero sum approach on immigration and trade. He has irresponsibly overspent on tax cuts. He has scared off some very well qualified, decent immigrants and sought to seal off America with a great wall not unlike the one in China that spelled the waning of China’s empire. He’s kind of a jerk. On the third point, I disagree. Canadians know more about their own history than Americans do about theirs. What’s more. I bet many Canadians know more about American history than many Americans. Strong education system you see. Trudeau’s naivety and hypocrisy are still charming compared to Trump’s sketchy backroom dealing and belligerence. Nevertheless, cast both into the garbage bin of history. Edited October 12, 2019 by Zeitgeist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted October 13, 2019 Report Share Posted October 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said: both political parties are willing to sacrifice the good of the country if it means hurting the other party. Polarization means that sensible policies are chucked because they might upset the party or have too much in common with the opposition. It's a Liberal/Democrat policy to hope for the worst when the other party is in power, or to divide the country along religious/racial grounds for the sake of votes. Down in the States the Des act as if there was racial harmony until 2016. They pretended not to notice all the racially-motivated rioting and looting going on, and they act like it's happening now when it's not. Just recently they pretended that there was a recession. Here we have a PM rushing to the defence of the hijab hoax "victim" (like the Dems did to Smollett's fake hate crime) and denigrating Canadians on national TV, and then when it was found to be a hoax Trudeau went back on TV to denigrate Canadians a second time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 13, 2019 Report Share Posted October 13, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said: Well on your first point, I’m not sure how you measure progress, as it’s quite arguable America has regressed in at least some important respects: environment, corruption of democracy, social cohesion, tolerance of foreign ways, etc. Again, U.S. history points to much more isolation and corruption in the past. The path is not always linear, and "foreigners" still prefer to emigrate to the USA more than any other nation. Your own foreign minister implored that my president and country protect the post WW2 order, not your own or another nation. Quote On your second point, I can’t think of a politician in recent history that I’ve strongly liked. My concern about Trump is that rather than reforming and strengthening institutions that have protected freedom, free enterprise, and trade domestically and internationally, he has attacked and sought to dismantle them. He has damaged relations with allies and tried to take a zero sum approach on immigration and trade. He has irresponsibly overspent on tax cuts. He has scared off some very well qualified, decent immigrants and sought to seal off America with a great wall not unlike the one in China that spelled the waning of China’s empire. He’s kind of a jerk. He is a grand jerk....a marvelous bastard....but he is our bastard. The more that foreigners hate him, the more he is embraced. Trump is just another U.S. president, one who dares to smash the status quo. The haters in Canada just consume themselves with their own fears about things they have no control over, because of a psychological dependence on America as the West's "leader". Quote On the third point, I disagree. Canadians know more about their own history than Americans do about theirs. What’s more. I bet many Canadians know more about American history than many Americans. Strong education system you see. I'll bet that Canadians still know more about American history and culture than their own, especially when Quebec is included. Canadians consume more American media than their own. Can name Trump as U.S. head of state before knowing about PM, GG, and monarch relationship. Quote Trudeau’s naivety and hypocrisy are still charming compared to Trump’s sketchy backroom dealing and belligerence. Nevertheless, cast both into the garbage bin of history. Trump is a much more important and impactful national leader than Trudeau, whether he is liked or not. Edited October 13, 2019 by bush_cheney2004 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted October 13, 2019 Report Share Posted October 13, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Again, U.S. history points to much more isolation and corruption in the past. The path is not always linear, and "foreigners" still prefer to emigrate to the USA more than any other nation. Your own foreign minister implored that my president and country protect the post WW2 order, not your own or another nation. He is a grand jerk....a marvelous bastard....but he is our bastard. The more that foreigners hate him, the more he is embraced. Trump is just another U.S. president, one who dares to smash the status quo. The haters in Canada just consume themselves with their own fears about things they have no control over, because of a psychological dependence on America as the West's "leader". I'll bet that Canadians still know more about American history and culture than their own, especially when Quebec is included. Canadians consume more American media than their own. Can name Trump as U.S. head of state before knowing about PM, GG, and monarch relationship. Trump is a much more important and impactful national leader than Trudeau, whether he is liked or not. Nice try. Trudeau is an international celeb. He’s internationally cool, not my idea of cool but that doesn’t matter. My daughter swoons over him. He has that. Trump is a celeb too, but as President he has to lean heavily on American power because his vision for America and the world is penurious and fearful. It’s small-minded and unbecoming of America. You’re right though, he’s all yours. Edited October 13, 2019 by Zeitgeist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 13, 2019 Report Share Posted October 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said: Nice try. Trudeau is an international celeb. He’s internationally cool, not my idea of cool but that doesn’t matter. My daughter swoons over him. He has that. Trump is a celeb too, but as President he has to lean heavily on American power because his vision for America and the world is punurious and fearful. It’s small-minded and unbecoming of America. You’re right though, he’s all yours. That's all I'm saying....Trump is just another American president along a nearly 250 year continuum...complete with the good and the bad. America has plotted its own course irrespective of foreign opinions and judgement, because it has worked very well that way. Outsiders could easily opine that Canada is in precipitous decline on several fronts and they would not be wrong. That's Canada's choice. "Unbecoming of America" is blind to America's past, and telegraphs an external dependency on the choices America makes. Many in Canada loved Bill Clinton....hated Bush #43....loved Obama....hates Trump. As if it matters....very strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted October 13, 2019 Report Share Posted October 13, 2019 (edited) 41 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: That's all I'm saying....Trump is just another American president along a nearly 250 year continuum...complete with the good and the bad. America has plotted its own course irrespective of foreign opinions and judgement, because it has worked very well that way. Outsiders could easily opine that Canada is in precipitous decline on several fronts and they would not be wrong. That's Canada's choice. "Unbecoming of America" is blind to America's past, and telegraphs an external dependency on the choices America makes. Many in Canada loved Bill Clinton....hated Bush #43....loved Obama....hates Trump. As if it matters....very strange. What matters is the overall direction of the world, the zeitgeist, no pun intended. The questions are such as, Are people getting along better in the world? Are people happy? Are people feeling more like outsiders or more included? Are we getting better at solving the world’s problems or worse? In a way, none of these politicians matter much, left or right, because the world is run by algorithms and the data fed into them, a feedback loop of continuous improvement. As Steven Pinker says, the world has progressed tremendously on pretty much all metrics. Nevertheless, he also says that some countries are doing much better than others, so there are formulas for success for sure. I think those formulas will be improved. When changes happen, the reasons for those changes will seem obvious to most people, at least to those connected to Information Age communications. We’re just discussing different political models. Edited October 13, 2019 by Zeitgeist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 13, 2019 Report Share Posted October 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: What matters is the overall direction of the world, the zeitgeist, no pun intended. The questions are such as, Are people getting along better in the world? Are people happy? Are people feeling more like outsiders or more included? Are we getting better at solving the world’s problems or worse? Really ? Then why not more attention on the rest of the world...instead of Trump and America ? "Getting along" no matter what is a Canadian value that does not necessarily apply around the globe, nor should it. Conditions and priorities are different...globally. Go ahead and be a globalist if you want, but not all feel the same way, as is their choice. Quote In a way, none of these politicians matter much, left or right, because the world is run by algorithms and the data fed into them, a feedback loop of continuous improvement. As Steven Pinker says, the world has progressed tremendously on pretty much all metrics. Nevertheless, he also says that some countries are doing much better than others, so there are formulas for success for sure. I think those formulas will be improved. When changes happen, the reasons for those changes will seem obvious to most people, at least to those connected to Information Age communications. We’re just discussing different political models. It matters to a lot of people for their own reasons...they join political parties....protest in the streets. The formulas and metrics also mean nothing in the end, because they are part of the same game. For many people, it starts with just having safe drinking water..anything else is just gravy. First world problems are just that....complete with YouTube videos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted October 13, 2019 Report Share Posted October 13, 2019 1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Really ? Then why not more attention on the rest of the world...instead of Trump and America ? "Getting along" no matter what is a Canadian value that does not necessarily apply around the globe, nor should it. Conditions and priorities are different...globally. Go ahead and be a globalist if you want, but not all feel the same way, as is their choice. It matters to a lot of people for their own reasons...they join political parties....protest in the streets. The formulas and metrics also mean nothing in the end, because they are part of the same game. For many people, it starts with just having safe drinking water..anything else is just gravy. First world problems are just that....complete with YouTube videos. Whether at a national level or international level, the indices are the same. The reason many people don’t like Trump is because he plays the zero-sum game: I can’t win unless someone loses. Someone else’s success means my failure. It’s lame. Think bigger than that. Raise all boats. Making money and having stuff for oneself is too easy. Move beyond that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 13, 2019 Report Share Posted October 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Whether at a national level or international level, the indices are the same. The reason many people don’t like Trump is because he plays the zero-sum game: I can’t win unless someone loses. Someone else’s success means my failure. It’s lame. Think bigger than that. Raise all boats. Making money and having stuff for oneself is too easy. Move beyond that. No, as I don't think you understand Trump's purpose and role at this time in American politics. He was elected to be a wrecking ball...to stop the globalist bleeding and virtue signaling zombies. His purpose and doctrine are transactional by design, with little regard for the ideology of the left that threatens the golden goose. Trump is rude and crude to force the tide back, even if only temporarily. And for him, it has been a great ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted October 13, 2019 Report Share Posted October 13, 2019 1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said: No, as I don't think you understand Trump's purpose and role at this time in American politics. He was elected to be a wrecking ball...to stop the globalist bleeding and virtue signaling zombies. His purpose and doctrine are transactional by design, with little regard for the ideology of the left that threatens the golden goose. Trump is rude and crude to force the tide back, even if only temporarily. And for him, it has been a great ride. No he blew it. His wave is retrograde. I do think he is trying to turn back the clock, but he can’t. Trump wants to dismantle a new world that will squeeze out guys like Trump. The only heroism I see in Trump is his guts. There’s some courage there, which is unusual, but he’s too self-interested. He can’t see new possibilities for wider harmony and prosperity, which can only exist in a narrow way for Trump. It’s all about the tribe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 13, 2019 Report Share Posted October 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said: No he blew it. His wave is retrograde. I do think he is trying to turn back the clock, but he can’t. Trump wants to dismantle a new world that will squeeze out guys like Trump. The only heroism I see in Trump is his guts. There’s some courage there, which is unusual, but he’s too self-interested. He can’t see new possibilities for wider harmony and prosperity, which can only exist in a narrow way for Trump. It’s all about the tribe. Now you are getting it...it is that fight which endears him to "Trumpsters". Wider harmony and prosperity is code for socialism and globalism to Trump supporters and other groups....no thanks. The tribe is dominated by people who will not universally drink the globalist Kool-Aid®, and it will take their deaths for the WOKE folks to prevail. A larger tribe also wants to keep their flags, guns, and free speech, including biases. Trump speaks to them, and attacks their enemies. His self interest fuels his drive and zeal for the fight...he calls it "high energy". Fellow septuagenarians Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders wish they had it so good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted October 13, 2019 Report Share Posted October 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Now you are getting it...it is that fight which endears him to "Trumpsters". Wider harmony and prosperity is code for socialism and globalism to Trump supporters and other groups....no thanks. The tribe is dominated by people who will not universally drink the globalist Kool-Aid®, and it will take their deaths for the WOKE folks to prevail. A larger tribe also wants to keep their flags, guns, and free speech, including biases. Trump speaks to them, and attacks their enemies. His self interest fuels his drive and zeal for the fight...he calls it "high energy". Fellow septuagenarians Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders wish they had it so good. There’s energy there and appeal, as there has been for many dictators. Trump knows how to use media. It’s a real strength for him. But once you have the mic and centre stage, what do you do with it? That’s where Trump loses me: He doesn’t present an inspiring vision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 13, 2019 Report Share Posted October 13, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: There’s energy there and appeal, as there has been for many dictators. Trump knows how to use media. It’s a real strength for him. But once you have the mic and centre stage, what do you do with it? That’s where Trump loses me: He doesn’t present an inspiring vision. Trump's vision is not about inspiration for socialism and globalism. Obviously he does not appeal to you, but you are not the intended audience. Trump has already created a new chapter in American political history, just by defeating GOP challengers and Clinton in 2016. Historians will write books about Trump, same as Obama, Bushes, Clinton, Nixon, etc. "Trump" will become another single name/initials that have earned their place in the club. What to do with it ? Start with the U.S. Supreme Court....a gift to the GOP/conservatives that lasts for a generation. Paris Climate Agreement.....bye-bye ! TPP...no thanks ! Illegals....it is game on. Edited October 13, 2019 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted October 13, 2019 Report Share Posted October 13, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Trump's vision is not about inspiration for socialism and globalism. Obviously he does not appeal to you, but you are not the intended audience. Trump has already created a new chapter in American political history, just by defeating GOP challengers and Clinton in 2016. Historians will write books about Trump, same as Obama, Bushes, Clinton, Nixon, etc. "Trump" will become another single name/initials that have earned their place in the club. What to do with it ? Start with the U.S. Supreme Court....a gift to the GOP/conservatives that lasts for a generation. Paris Climate Agreement.....bye-bye ! TPP...no thanks ! Illegals....it is game on. It’s dark and sad, but you got what you wanted. In Dante’s Divine Comedy, the punishment is the sin. Everyone in hell Is getting what they want. They don’t know they’re in hell. A priest described heaven and hell as identical rooms. Each one has a giant pot of soup in the middle and everyone has a spoon attached to their arms, preventing them from bending their arms to feed themselves. In hell everyone is starving trying to feed themselves. In heaven everyone is feeding each other. Which room are we in? No one has to be welcoming or generous, but you pay an exorbitant price for greed and hate because of what you become. If you want to take religion or spirituality out of the conversation because you think it’s bullshit, then here’s a Nietzsche reference. The hero is heroic because, even though he has the power to destroy, rape, pillage, and do evil, he chooses to be noble and do good acts. While it’s true that charity starts at home, I don’t think America First is about that. It easily lapses into an idea of supremacy, a mindset that doesn’t end in international circles but also relates to all of your domestic class struggles: rich and poor, black and white, and other distinctions. Whether you like it or not, America’s power and influence does take the world in a direction. We should all be concerned about that direction. China is also having its influence and we should be concerned about China. Canada and other countries can try to have their say and influence, but the actions of these larger countries is important. So too bad. You want to weigh in on JT, damn right we’re going to weigh in on Trump. Nativist populism is on the rise worldwide. Trump has encouraged that. Are you proud of America’s influence on that shift? Edited October 13, 2019 by Zeitgeist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted October 13, 2019 Report Share Posted October 13, 2019 15 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: History reports that the United States has grown stronger and stronger under the current system, so your point is moot. Why do you refer to yourself as "History"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted October 13, 2019 Report Share Posted October 13, 2019 7 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: He was elected to be a wrecking ball...to stop the globalist bleeding and virtue signaling zombies. His purpose and doctrine are transactional by design, with little regard for the ideology of the left that threatens the golden goose. Trump is rude and crude to force the tide back, even if only temporarily. And for him, it has been a great ride. The above is a rationalization and partisan opinion of what you think his role is. If you really believe he is stopping or has stopped "globalist bleeding" what does that mean? What does "globalist bleeding" mean. What is it with you Trump partisans you make up words as you go along to justify his behavior which mean nothing. Globalist bleeding. It sounds like something Joan Rivers used to joke about in her stand up act. Then you make up bullshit that his doctrine is by design and transactional. Yes this is why he does not read any briefings, has no knowledge of history and fires people constantly....this isn't spur of the moment tantrums, its design. The refusal to consult with his military and security advisors over the implications of abandoning Kurds as he did. Oh its by design. Its by design the US now has everyone realizing he has no allies but Russia and North Korea. That's design. How about your fantasy he has little regard for the left. If as you said he is wrecking the globalist bleeding, how would that show disregard for the left-it would in fact support the left. Do you even give a thought to your concepts? Multi-nationals running the world do not favour the left just the exact opposite. In fact global bleeding is a leftist term first coined by Marxists that you recycle. Virtue signaling zombies...what are those...the only virtue signaling zombies I know these days are people like you using the pros you do in favour of Trump. Read back your words in the above. Tell me what are his rallies? Are you telling me there are no virtue signally zombies there screaming make America great again just like you cheering him on? Then here is your best rationalization " Trump is rude and crude to force the tide back..." What bullshit. Tell me FDR, Truman, Churchill, when they took down Hitler were they "rude"? Was Reagan "rude" ? Since when does being "rude and crude" force the tide back on anything? Did it work for Hitler, Stalin, Hussein, Ghaddafi? What world do you live in where being an insulting bully and engaging in grade 2 name calling on twitter changes the world? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted October 13, 2019 Report Share Posted October 13, 2019 7 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: His self interest fuels his drive and zeal for the fight...he calls it "high energy". Fellow septuagenarians Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders wish they had it so good. You words aboive sound no different than the people who write the script for the fat boy in North Korea. Your attempt to create a personality cult and salivate over the virtues of Donald Trump are lovely Mrs. B-C. I think you should create squads of Trump supporters and have them erect statutes of Donald everywhere in between smashing store windows owned by Latinos who came illegally and burning books written by anyone but Trump. Go for it. In regards to the second comment you project your feelings on two people. You do not know what they think or want. The thing the three have in common as all politicians do is they have large egos and narcissistic drives that cause them to feel the need to broadcast publically their opinions as something everyone must embrace. The degree of the malignancy in their narcissism is for Americans to decide in the next election if he does not melt down and take the world with him by then. Your depiction of Trump's "interest", "drive and zeal" are subjective, partisan opinions as to his behavior. There are other theories such as: https://newrepublic.com/article/140702/medical-theory-donald-trumps-bizarre-behaviorer https://gen.medium.com/trump-is-a-mental-health-story-652c340f4503 https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/pa8k9k/thousands-of-mental-health-professionals-agree-trump-is-dangerous https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/shrinks-break-silence-president-trump-exhibits-traits-m-article-1.2957688 https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/donald-trump-mental-illness-narcisissm-us-president-psychologists-inauguration-crowd-size-paranoia-a7552661.html https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/07/29/psychiatrist_trump_mental_health_urgently_deteriorating.html#! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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