Why is criticizm of Israel considered Anti-semitism?

[GostHacked]

The relevance is your lack of impartiality and consistency in what you choose to complain about and see problems with. Its as relevant as how a bus blows up killing innocent Israelis and you, Eye, Bug Guy, will you raise a thread about it? Well? Of course not.

Your attempt to portray yourself as impartial and not bias doesn't fly in the pattern of what you choose to criticize. That was the point being made.

The blatant selectivity as to what certain posters will discuss speaks for itself. Loud and clear and your silence is relevant and its loud, loud as hell in its implications.

See you are lumping me in with the other who may actually be anti-semites...

So far I have not found any way I can discuss things about Israel without someone throwing out some notion of being anti-semeitc.

The fact NO ONE,... NOT ONE OF YOU... made a thread about the recent terror attack on the bus in Israel so you can't single anyone else out for it.

[Big Guy]

For years Israel had been trying to distort history and create its own picture of Jerusalem. The world body is getting fed up and UNESCO has called out that nation for its attempt to negate the truth. The Israeli authorities are not happy:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/04/outrage-israel-unesco-resolution-jerusalem-160421162641624.html

The language of a UNESCO resolution on Jerusalem described the "so-called" Jewish sites and put the Western Wall Plaza in quotation marks. The resolution, adopted by the UN cultural agency's 58-nation executive board last week, condemns the Israeli government's stewardship of Jerusalem and decries the renovation of "so-called Jewish ritual baths" and the alleged creation of "Jewish fake graves".

Its about time. BTW, the United Kingdom and the USA, two of the most powerful supporters of this rogue nation, "abstained" from the vote.

Canada should "abstain" from any support for Israel.

[CITIZEN_2015]

Israel may be a rogue state but it is not a rogue nation. They are many good people in Israel and they have contributed positively to the world in science and medicine. I do believe a small portion of criticism of Israel may be anti-semitism but in most part it is not, It is being critical of a rogue state who commits crimes against weaker neighbors especially against weak defenseless population. It is purposely misrepresented as anti-semitism by some Zionists in order to silent the critics of the state of Israel in an abusive manner.

Israel is surrounded by very fierce enemies with intend to destroy it and they have the right to defend themselves but not at any cost that I agree. They have been too vicious and aggressive against their neighbors especially against the defenseless civilian population. Canada should stay neutral in the Arab Israeli conflict. They are both at fault for dragging this conflict for decades now by their hateful inhuman actions against each other. I believe the new Trudeau government would very likely stay neutral in contrast to the one-sided totally biased deposed regime of Harper

Edited April 22, 2016 by CITIZEN_2015

[eyeball]

The fact NO ONE,... NOT ONE OF YOU... made a thread about the recent terror attack on the bus in Israel so you can't single anyone else out for it.

Most people don't fixate on the ME according to an attack du jour basis.

People are discussing the forest not he trees.

Edited April 22, 2016 by eyeball

[Moonlight Graham]

No, it's entirely relevant. Very few anti-Semites are going to come out and admit it openly these days. Instead they tend to couch their antisemitism in dog whistle words, decrying 'Zionists' instead of Jews, and making long and repeated lists of the crimes of Israel rather than the crimes of Jews. That is why there is suspicion that when people devote enormous effort to criticizing Israel and 'Zionism' they're really simply pursuing an anti-Semitic agenda. Israel is, after all, far away and relatively unimportant to most of us here unless we're Jews. And there are many, many more brutal oppressors and killers of the innocent out there who draw virtually no notice.

It's the same reason why our governments talk about support for Israel etc. and are so focused on the Israel-Palestine peace, when there's lots of other, worse humanitarian crises that pop up that the news doesn't cover etc or governments talk about supporting.

[Rue]

I am not lumping you with anyone Ghost-you are. You not I choose to be selective as to what outrages you, and for that reason I question its consistency. I am well aware you think you are "different" than the others you think I lumped you with. I am not lumping you. I am stating your pattern of response is questionable as to what you select to respond to.

Big Guy does not hide he comes on this forum to tout Iran and limit his comments to pissing on Israel when he discusses the ME.

I am not sure why you would try defend being so damn obvious in your selectivity.

I suppose you can make a lame response like Eye but what's the point? The pattern of responses by some posters as to what they respond to, what they will discuss and when they respond speaks for itself and you were criticized for that.

By the way I did start a thread on Muslim and Palestinian terrorism. Anyone could have added the discussion of the bus on it particularly the same anti Israelis who ignore it.

That selective outrage speaks for itself. You bet if that had been a Palestinian killed by an Israeli Eye and Big Guy and Hudson Jones would be the first up writing " Israel very very bad" posts.

[Rue]

Moonlight Graham I am not sure what government you are discussing butHis Royal Gighness Prince Justin of Trudeaau avoids talking about Israel or for that matter Jews. During the holocaust memorial he never used the word "Jew" once. Hey now. Imagine that. He actually went out of his way not to discuss Israel during the election and was told not to talk about it. Fear not, his no.1 advisor on the Middle East is Omar Aleghbra, a nasty, bigoted apologist for Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran and extremist Islamic foreign policy. I am sure he and Stephane Dion will find Israel on the map and have lively discussions about Saudi Arabia getting armoured vehicles and hey who knows maybe we can open Tim Horton's in Tehran because Uncle Stephane said in his superb English, "dee mayking of bizness in Iran is good oppertoontie for dah country so why not?" He makes Jean Chretiens look absolutely gifted.

Give Trudeau some time. His brother Sasha is an open, out and out anti Israeli, pro Iranian supporter. He made a lovely propaganda documentary extolling the virtues of Iran. You just wait. Its only a matter of time until you have discount tours to Tehran.

[Rue]

Right Eye. You and Big Guy and Hudson Jones don't fixate on Israel with attack du jours as you lamely call them.

Right.

That's why I like your responses Eye, they are always on the level, right to the point, never any denial. Just pure integral truth. Thank you.

[GostHacked]

I am not lumping you with anyone Ghost-you are. You not I choose to be selective as to what outrages you, and for that reason I question its consistency. I am well aware you think you are "different" than the others you think I lumped you with. I am not lumping you. I am stating your pattern of response is questionable as to what you select to respond to.

So what the F are you really saying here?? It's not exactly clear.

[GostHacked]

The other problem I see is that if someone does not call out other atrocities they get accused of being an apologist for whatever they don't call out.

[Argus]

The other problem I see is that if someone does not call out other atrocities they get accused of being an apologist for whatever they don't call out.

Not if he doesn't spend every day scouring the internet and the white pride and antisemitic sites for stories of how evil Jews... er, Zionists... er, Israelis are so he can frantically post it here and bemoan the evil Jews... er, Israelis. I mean, if atrocities happen daily all over the world, and all you care about is the Jews knocked down an empty house, well... the question obviously arises as to what your motivation is. It clearly isn't any concern for human rights.

[eyeball]

Right Eye. You and Big Guy and Hudson Jones don't fixate on Israel with attack du jours as you lamely call them.

Right.

That's right. I just don't see anything constructive coming out of reacting to reach and every single attack or bombing like it was Pearl Harbour or 9/11 all over again. Yes it's a horrible appalling human tragedy that these things happen day after day after day, It's unfortunate you deeply disapprove of the greater importance I attach to the forest than the individual trees and your singular focus on why I do that is, in a word, destructive.

That's why I like your responses Eye, they are always on the level, right to the point, never any denial. Just pure integral truth. Thank you.

Right.

So why do I still get the sense you're convinced I simply hate Jews and that's all there is too it?

Edited April 22, 2016 by eyeball

[Rue]

That's right. I just don't see anything constructive coming out of reacting to reach and every single attack or bombing like it was Pearl Harbour or 9/11 all over again. Yes it's a horrible appalling human tragedy that these things happen day after day after day, It's unfortunate you deeply disapprove of the greater importance I attach to the forest than the individual trees and your singular focus on why I do that is, in a word, destructive.

Right.

So why do I still get the sense you're convinced I simply hate Jews and that's all there is too it?

I have no clue as to whether you " hate "Jews". The fact you make the above comment appears narcissistic

and self indulgent. Its your words that are challenged. Who you are and what your motives are I do not care. Its your words I debate,

I've said before responding to your comments that I found many of these comments ignorant of Jewish history and the definition of Zionism, and the origins of Israel and I have explained why only to have you ridicule my efforts at explaining why as too long for you to read. That to me makes you appear immature,

petty, purile, narcissistic, but hateful, I do not know.

I think you have made it clear in your words you believe you can dictate to Jews that they have no right to exist in Israel as Jewish citizens of a Jewish state and I find that bigoted, presumptious, ignorant.

You have a right to ask do I think you are an anti semite because you criticize Israeli state policies. No

I do not. Criticizing an Israeli state policy is done by Israelis every moment of the day.

It's part of democratic debate.

You don't do that. Instead you challenge the right of any Jew to be an Israeli and live in a Jewish state.

That challenge I argue is based on an anti semitic premises because you use a double standard, a

bigoted standard against Jews you won't against Muslims with Muslim states or ethnic groups like Italians,Irish who define their collectives as we Jews do our collective, through countries.

If you use terminology that says I do not have the same human rights to nationality as a Jew that Muslims have in Sharia law states or other ethnic groups have in their states, its anti semitic because of the

double standard.

Whether your anti semitic double standard is done out of hatred I do not know and quite frankly I don't care.

I am not here to discuss your feelings. Go to a therapist if you feel guilt.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Rue

[GostHacked]

I really do not think you hate Jews. I've said that before. I think you are completely ignorant of Jewish history and the definition of Zionism, and the origins of Israel.

I think you are completely bias against Israel.

However do I think you hate Jews.

So you don't think he hates Jews, but you think he hates Jews ??? You are helping to prove the point I am making in this thread here.

[Rue]

So you don't think he hates Jews, but you think he hates Jews ??? You are helping to prove the point I am making in this thread here.

I have clarified what I said so you might want to go back and read it before you try stereotype me as accusing someone

oof being an anti semite only because they criticize Israeli state policies.

Of course you fgeel free to flog that dead horse of victimhood. Wear it all you want.

[eyeball]

I really do not think you hate Jews. I've said that before.

I have no clue as to whether you " hate "Jews".

I have clarified what I said

Well, that clears that up.

[marcus]

One of the reasons why there is a high percentage of the Israeli public supporting the Israeli government in their actions is because of Israel's media. The Israeli media is heavily controlled and it ranks 101st, behind Lebanon and East Timor in the 2016 World Press Freedom Index.

Israel continues to pull away from being a true democracy it says it is.

[Argus]

One of the reasons why there is a high percentage of the Israeli public supporting the Israeli government in their actions is because of Israel's media. The Israeli media is heavily controlled and it ranks 101st, behind Lebanon and East Timor in the 2016 World Press Freedom Index.

Israel continues to pull away from being a true democracy it says it is.

What the page says on Israel, roughly translated is:

The Israeli press enjoys real freedom of expression , which is rare in the Middle East region. Nevertheless, despite the free and independent media , journalists face a " military censorship " and must deal with the censorship orders . The abuses of the Israeli army against Palestinian and foreign journalists are common , especially during demonstrations covers.

So Israel's score is damaged by military censorship - which you tend to find in countries which are at war - and how foreign and Palestinian journalists are treated. But why would Israel, which guarantees press freedom have a problem with foreign journalists? Perhaps because those foreign journalists tend to be implacably hostile towards Israel, and in collusion with the Palestinians?

This is an excellent article from the Atlantic which descries the incestuous relationship between the foreign press, foreign NGOs, the UN, and activist groups. It talks about how the groupthink forms, and how it distorts the picture we get of the Israel/Palestinian violence.

This confusion is very much present in Israel and the Palestinian territories, where foreign activists are a notable feature of the landscape, and where international NGOs and numerous arms of the United Nations are among the most powerful players, wielding billions of dollars and employing many thousands of foreign and local employees. Their SUVs dominate sections of East Jerusalem and their expense accounts keep Ramallah afloat. They provide reporters with social circles, romantic partners, and alternative employment—a fact that is more important to reporters now than it has ever been, given the disintegration of many newspapers and the shoestring nature of their Internet successors.

For many foreign journalists, these were not targets but sources and friends—fellow members, in a sense, of an informal alliance. This alliance consists of activists and international staffers from the UN and the NGOs; the Western diplomatic corps, particularly in East Jerusalem; and foreign reporters. (There is also a local component, consisting of a small number of Israeli human-rights activists who are themselves largely funded by European governments, and Palestinian staffers from the Palestinian Authority, the NGOs, and the UN.) Mingling occurs at places like the lovely Oriental courtyard of the American Colony hotel in East Jerusalem, or at parties held at the British Consulate’s rooftop pool. The dominant characteristic of nearly all of these people is their transience. They arrive from somewhere, spend a while living in a peculiar subculture of expatriates, and then move on.

The uglier aspects of Palestinian society are untouchable because they would disrupt the “Israel story,” which is a story of Jewish moral failure. In these circles, in my experience, a distaste for Israel has come to be something between an acceptable prejudice and a prerequisite for entry.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/11/how-the-media-makes-the-israel-story/383262/

[Rue]

Well, that clears that up.

Are you serious. more narcissistic attempts to focus on your feelings?

Here let me make this clear because I always do-if you say something I find hateful about Jews, or

Israelis or Zionists, I'll let you know and why unlike you. You have demonstrated you can't string more than two sentences together. You don't provide positions. You name call. You react to others but never once have you proposed or stated anything you believe in. Your sole m.o. on this forum is to react.

This thread has clearly explained how the pretext of criticizing Israeli policies is used to question the right of Jews to be Israeli, Zionist, create a nation to assure no more genocides in Europe or the rest ofthe world.

Its not about your friggin feelings.

Edited April 26, 2016 by Rue

[GostHacked]

This thread has clearly explained how the pretext of criticizing Israeli policies is used to question the right of Jews to be Israeli, Zionist, create a nation to assure no more genocides in Europe or the rest of the world.

Actually the point of this thread is the notion that all criticism of Israel is viewed as anti-semetic. As opposed to the notion that people criticize Israel simply because they are anti-semetic .. There is a difference there.

[eyeball]

Its not about your friggin feelings.

I know, it's about your's.

[Argus]

Actually the point of this thread is the notion that all criticism of Israel is viewed as anti-semetic. As opposed to the notion that people criticize Israel simply because they are anti-semetic .. There is a difference there.

Sure. Can you think of a reasonable reason why someone would scour the internet looking for stories from Arab and Russian media which depict Israel violating human rights just to post them here - and then demand we befriend Iran instead?

[GostHacked]

Sure. Can you think of a reasonable reason why someone would scour the internet looking for stories from Arab and Russian media which depict Israel violating human rights just to post them here - and then demand we befriend Iran instead?

What makes you think that our media is any better? There is bias across the board, but the partisan stuff even plays out on this level of 'politics'. I am sure things like Foxnews is better?

Sure, granted (as I said before) there are some that fit the anti-semetic jew hating tag. No bones about that.

But I can bet that there have been incidents that would put Israel in a darker light because of human rights violations that Israel took part in. I don't advocate for befriending Iran, but I do advocate for negotiations and talks between nations to resolve issues. The problem there is that those who are going after Iran also have some skeletons in the closet. However this thread is not about Iran.

[Big Guy]

It appears that Big Guy is on the philosophical and factual flip side of the Argus/Rue consortium.

Big Guy is very, very comfortable in that position and thanks both Argus and Rue for their assistance.

"“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.” - Franklin D. Roosevelt

[Argus]

What makes you think that our media is any better?

Because our media is independent and comes from a myriad of political and ideological directions without sanction or restraint of government.

There is bias across the board, but the partisan stuff even plays out on this level of 'politics'. I am sure things like Foxnews is better?

You can, if you so desire, look up the things I've said about FOX in the past. However, FOX is restrained by the atmosphere in which it works, and in competition with other media outlets. It can slant the news but it finds it very hard to actually make things up.

Sure, granted (as I said before) there are some that fit the anti-semetic jew hating tag. No bones about that.

Yes, and you haven't answered my question.

But I can bet that there have been incidents that would put Israel in a darker light because of human rights violations that Israel took part in.

Israel has been at war for over fifty years. Stuff happens in wars. You should see some of the things American and Canadian soldiers did in WW2, Korea and Vietnam.

I don't advocate for befriending Iran, but I do advocate for negotiations and talks between nations to resolve issues. The problem there is that those who are going after Iran also have some skeletons in the closet. However this thread is not about Iran.

No, this thread is about antisemitism. And I'm asking if you find it passing strange that someone hypercritical of Israel for its human rights abuses would simultaneously praise Iran and demand we befriend Iran?