GostHacked Posted April 27, 2016 Author Report Posted April 27, 2016 Because our media is independent and comes from a myriad of political and ideological directions without sanction or restraint of government. Our media has bias, even if you don't or cannot recognize it. No, this thread is about antisemitism. And I'm asking if you find it passing strange that someone hypercritical of Israel for its human rights abuses would simultaneously praise Iran and demand we befriend Iran? No this thread I set out clearly in the OP is about how all criticism against Israel seen as anti-semitism. And not to get off topic with your notion about the US in Vietnam (we can and have spent threads talking about that) this is a specific topic with a specific discussion point. I laid that out in the OP as to not get into this kind of discussion over the past couple pages. And sure I would find it strange, but we see many examples of someone being hypercritical of something while being apologetic for other things of the same nature. You all do it. I don't believe many here can be seen as objective in their discussions, instead of being partisans and berating others for not believing what you believe. Them bad, us good, is how it mostly plays out when there are things done on all sides of the spectrum. So, again I set out a specific topic to discuss, you can discuss it or go to another thread. The choice is yours.
Rue Posted April 27, 2016 Report Posted April 27, 2016 (edited) No this thread I set out clearly in the OP is about how all criticism against Israel seen as anti-semitism. You did not. You in fact were asked many times to provide examples, you could not. Your attempt are a prime example of it trying to resurrect this b.s. thread and rationalize using bigoted stereotypes to smeer anyone you think defends Israel's right to exist with one foul fart of an allegation. Edited April 27, 2016 by Rue
Rue Posted April 27, 2016 Report Posted April 27, 2016 Our media has bias, even if you don't or cannot recognize it. You enfgage in the tactic of open ended generalized ambiguous allegation. You provide zero proof, zero examples. Your accusation is inane. You also intentionally misrepresented what Argus said. He never said the media was not bias. Go on provide the thread. Enough with the unreferenced allegations you pose as facts. You can't. You just fabricate as you go along reacting now with no cohesive thought process of reasoning in your words. By the way coincidence someone started a thread on Zionist control right after this. Lol. You guys are something else.
Rue Posted April 27, 2016 Report Posted April 27, 2016 (edited) Ghost you are free to make your unsubstantiated allegations, I am responding explaining what anti Semitism is because you clearly have no idea. At this point your deliberately pale, vague reference to it to give you an escape hatch when challenged for saying it speaks for itself. source: http://www.blog.standforisrael.org/blog/2015/02/02/confronting-anti-semitism/ " There are several distinct, but sometimes overlapping, types of anti-Semitism. The first is traditional, right wing, fascist Jew hatred that has historically included theological, racial, economic, social, personal and cultural aspects. We are seeing a resurgence of this today in Greece, Hungary and other European countries with rising right wing parties that are anti-Muslim as well as anti-Jewish. The second is Muslim anti-Semitism. Just as not all Greeks and Hungarians are anti-Semitic, so too not all Muslims suffer from this malady. But far too many do. It is wrong to assume that only Muslims who manifest Jew hatred through violence, harbor anti-Semitic views. Recent polls show an extraordinarily high incidence of anti-Semitism—hatred of Jews as individuals, as a group and as a religion,—throughout North Africa, the Middle East and Muslim areas in Europe. This hatred manifests itself not only in words, but in deeds, such as taunting Jews who wear yarmulkes, vandalizing Jewish institutions, and occasional violence directed at individual Jews. Among a small number of extremists it also results in the kind of deadly violence we have seen in Telouse, Paris, Brussels and other parts of Europe. Several decades ago it manifested itself in attacks on synagogues by Palestinian terrorists, including some operating on behalf of the Palestine Liberation Organization. Third, there is hard left anti-Zionism that sometimes melds into subtle and occasionally overt anti-Semitism. This pathology is seen in the double standard imposed on everything Jewish, including the nation state of the Jewish people. It is also reflected in blaming “Jewish power”, and the “pushiness” of Jews in demanding support for Israel. I’m not referring to criticism of Israeli policies or actions. I’m referring to the singling out of Israel for extreme demonization. The ultimate form of this pathology is the absurd comparison made by some extreme leftist between the extermination of policies of the Nazis and of Israel’s efforts to defend itself against terrorist rockets, tunnels, suicide bombers and other threats to its civilians. Comparing Israel’s actions to those of the Nazis is a not-so-subtle version of Holocaust denial. Because if all the Nazis really did was what Israel is now doing, there could not have been a Holocaust or an attempt at genocide against the Jewish people. A variation on this perverse theme is apartheid denial: by accusing Israel—which accords equal rights to all its citizens—of apartheid, these haters deny the horrors of actual apartheid, which was so much more horrible than anything Israel has ever done. Fourth, and most dangerous, is eliminationist anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism of the kind advocated by the leaders of Iran, Hezbollah, Hamas, and ISIS. Listen to Hassan Nasrallah: “If [the Jews] all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide” or “If we search the entire world for a person more cowardly, despicable, weak and feeble in psyche, mind, ideology and religion, we would not find anyone like the Jew…” These variations on the theme of anti-Semitism have several elements in common. First, they tend to engage in some form of Holocaust denial, minimization, glorification or comparative victimization. Second, they exaggerate Jewish power, money and influence. Third, they seek the delegitimation and demonization of Israel as the nation state of the Jewish people. Fourth, they impose a double standard on all things Jewish. Finally, they nearly all deny that they are anti-Semites who hate all Jews. They claim that their hatred is directed against Israel and Jews who support the nation state of the Jewish people. This common form of the new anti-Semitism—we love the Jews, it’s only their nation state that we hate—" On this forum we see the following: 1-commencing several threads at once with general headings with the word Israel in it 2-using each thread to then question the right of Jews to be Israelis 3-engaging in absolutely pathetic ancient anti Jewish stereotypes such as the Jews control the world using the word "Zionist" instead of Jew holocaust denial 4-smeers assigning negative motives to anyone pereceived supportive of Israel including an attempt to drag them into personal tiffs 5-constant stating of subjective unsubstantiated allegations as facts 6-constant stating if negative stereotypes about Jews, Israelis, Zionists 7-use of deliberately vague references to leave a way out from being accused of stating something 8-fabricating allegations 9-making out and out falsehoods that when exposed they repeat again two posts later, i.e., the Kazar allegation 10-use of coded words to incite others. Hey now that's just some of the fun Edited April 27, 2016 by Rue
G Huxley Posted April 27, 2016 Report Posted April 27, 2016 It is rather ironic that it seems that most Israelis are anti-semitic as their Muslim brethren are Semites too.
DogOnPorch Posted April 27, 2016 Report Posted April 27, 2016 (edited) It is rather ironic that it seems that most Israelis are anti-semitic as their Muslim brethren are Semites too. Except when the term was popularized in the 1800s by Wilhelm Marr, it wasn't referring to the hatred of Arabs. (English PDF http://www.kevinmacdonald.net/Marr-Text-English.pdf) Islam is also a religion...a Muslim can be of any background like a Christian. Edited April 27, 2016 by DogOnPorch Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
GostHacked Posted April 27, 2016 Author Report Posted April 27, 2016 You enfgage in the tactic of open ended generalized ambiguous allegation. You provide zero proof, zero examples. Western media bias berates Iran while not saying too much about Saudi Arabia. And the generalizations regarding RT and other foreign media had no examples to go along with it. But sure I'll take the hit for it, I got big shoulders.
GostHacked Posted April 27, 2016 Author Report Posted April 27, 2016 (edited) Ghost you are free to make your unsubstantiated allegations, I am responding explaining what anti Semitism is because you clearly have no idea. At this point your deliberately pale, vague reference to it to give you an escape hatch when challenged for saying it speaks for itself. Thanks Rue for finally letting me understand that I am in fact an anti-semite, or more specially a Jew hater. I mean there is no way I can convince you of what I really think. /sarcasm I'll tell you one last thing. The way you call out others 'don't tell me how I think or feel' is something I will throw back in your face. I won't let you tell me what I think or feel or what my position is. I clearly laid it out in the OP. However I kind of expected this to happen anyways. So thank you for helping me prove exactly what I suspected in my OP. Moderation : I request this thread be locked as there is no more to be said on this matter. Edited April 27, 2016 by GostHacked
Argus Posted April 28, 2016 Report Posted April 28, 2016 Our media has bias, even if you don't or cannot recognize it. Everyone has bias, but it's not the same bias. That's the point. No this thread I set out clearly in the OP is about how all criticism against Israel seen as anti-semitism. Except, as has been pointed out to you, it's not. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
G Huxley Posted April 28, 2016 Report Posted April 28, 2016 Except when the term was popularized in the 1800s by Wilhelm Marr, it wasn't referring to the hatred of Arabs. (English PDF http://www.kevinmacdonald.net/Marr-Text-English.pdf) Islam is also a religion...a Muslim can be of any background like a Christian. Who cares though. Literally the term means opposed to Semites and the and all Islamics are Semites considering they believe that they are the sons of Shem.
DogOnPorch Posted April 28, 2016 Report Posted April 28, 2016 Who cares though. Literally the term means opposed to Semites and the and all Islamics are Semites considering they believe that they are the sons of Shem. I do, obviously, as that's where the term 'antisemitism' comes from. Hatred of Jews...not hatred of Arabs. As well, are Indonesians Semites? Because I assure you that Islam is a RELIGION...not a skin colour. Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
GostHacked Posted April 28, 2016 Author Report Posted April 28, 2016 Everyone has bias, but it's not the same bias. That's the point. Try and tell me something I don't know or understand. As well, are Indonesians Semites? Because I assure you that Islam is a RELIGION...not a skin colour. Judaism is a religion not a skin colour. WTF is your point?
DogOnPorch Posted April 28, 2016 Report Posted April 28, 2016 (edited) Judaism is a religion not a skin colour. WTF is your point? Posters keep referring to 'Islam' as if it were a skin colour. Edited April 28, 2016 by DogOnPorch Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
GostHacked Posted April 28, 2016 Author Report Posted April 28, 2016 Posters keep referring to 'Islam' as if it were a skin colour. People also think that all criticism of Israel is inherently anti-semetic. But they are wrong.
DogOnPorch Posted April 28, 2016 Report Posted April 28, 2016 People also think that all criticism of Israel is inherently anti-semetic. But they are wrong. I've never said any such thing, Mr Strawman. Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
GostHacked Posted April 28, 2016 Author Report Posted April 28, 2016 I've never said any such thing, Mr Strawman. It's not a strawman when it's the crux of this whole thread. Go troll somewhere else.
Bonam Posted April 28, 2016 Report Posted April 28, 2016 (edited) People also think that all criticism of Israel is inherently anti-semetic. Nope, no one here thinks that. It's not a strawman when it's the crux of this whole thread. So then the thread is based on a false premise. Edited April 28, 2016 by Bonam
G Huxley Posted April 29, 2016 Report Posted April 29, 2016 "I do, obviously, as that's where the term 'antisemitism' comes from. Hatred of Jews...not hatred of Arabs. "Yeah, but b.s. anti means 'opposed to' in Greek and Semite means Semitic peoples which includes both Jews and Arabs. Sorry anti-Semitism applies to both opposition to Jews and Arabs as they are both Semites. Islamic Indonesians are Semites as they are part of not only the religion, but also probably speakers of a Semitic language as well. (at least Koranic Arabic) I do, obviously, as that's where the term 'antisemitism' comes from. Hatred of Jews...not hatred of Arabs.As well, are Indonesians Semites? Because I assure you that Islam is a RELIGION...not a skin colour.
DogOnPorch Posted April 29, 2016 Report Posted April 29, 2016 (edited) " I do, obviously, as that's where the term 'antisemitism' comes from. Hatred of Jews...not hatred of Arabs. " Yeah, but b.s. anti means 'opposed to' in Greek and Semite means Semitic peoples which includes both Jews and Arabs. Sorry anti-Semitism applies to both opposition to Jews and Arabs as they are both Semites. Islamic Indonesians are Semites as they are part of not only the religion, but also probably speakers of a Semitic language as well. (at least Koranic Arabic) History says otherwise...sorry. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Marr And Indonesians are Pribumi...not Arabs. Edited April 29, 2016 by DogOnPorch Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted April 29, 2016 Report Posted April 29, 2016 It's not a strawman when it's the crux of this whole thread. Go troll somewhere else. You're most free to criticize Israel as far as I'm concerned. You're my bread and butter...I hate echo chambers. Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
GostHacked Posted April 29, 2016 Author Report Posted April 29, 2016 Nope, no one here thinks that. So then the thread is based on a false premise. Actually it's not a false premise as you and Rue and several others have proven that to be just so.
Argus Posted April 29, 2016 Report Posted April 29, 2016 Yeah, but b.s. anti means 'opposed to' in Greek and Semite means Semitic peoples which includes both Jews and Arabs. Sorry anti-Semitism applies to both opposition to Jews and Arabs as they are both Semites. Your position, while technically accurate, is silly. It's like making a thing out of saying black people are not actually black. No, they're not. But when we talk about blacks we know who we're describing and so do they. White people are not actually white either, btw, for you PC stormtroopers. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted April 29, 2016 Report Posted April 29, 2016 Actually it's not a false premise as you and Rue and several others have proven that to be just so. If your criticism is contextual there's nothing wrong with it. Most criticism of Israel is not nor makes any attempt to be so. It's most repetitive, by the same players who ignore the same actions everywhere else in the world. Just like the Islamic bloc will bring the same one-sided resolutions into the UN dozens of times a year, so too will western Jew haters make repeated condemnations of Israel which are one-sided and without context. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
DogOnPorch Posted April 29, 2016 Report Posted April 29, 2016 Your position, while technically accurate, is silly. It's like making a thing out of saying black people are not actually black. No, they're not. But when we talk about blacks we know who we're describing and so do they. White people are not actually white either, btw, for you PC stormtroopers. I doubt there was a huge 'Arab Problem' in need of a 'Final Solution' in late 1800s Germany. But you never know, eh? Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Rue Posted April 29, 2016 Report Posted April 29, 2016 Actually it's not a false premise as you and Rue and several others have proven that to be just so. You have made yet another allegation. You going to back this one up? To date you have provided not one post where someone called someone an anti semite simply because they criticized Israel. You've been given repeated chances to back up that allegation and you can't. What you have done though, is to continue to keep making that allegation about my words and now Bonham's without any proof. The sheer volume of your allegations and inability to prove them at this point expose your tactics, lack ofg integrity and veracity. You are quick to slur but you can't back it up.
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