jacee Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 In the apparent state of Islamic Palestine, what would be the quota of Jews? Abbas has stated NO Jews will live in his country-in-waiting. Your definition of genocide and mine are obviously different. Can you give a real world example of Israel conducting genocide? Israel is tiny. Smaller than New Jersey. Can you give and example of it's expansionist policy? Keep in mind Israel has given back more land than its current size...for peace. Quota? Do you mean just allowing Arabs to enter Israel at their whim? No country allows that for long. Ask Germany. Yes you are missing the point. Try again: 1) Ever-expanding Israel aspires to "from the river to the sea" and aggressively occupies territory to achieve that, pushing Arabs out of their homes, off their land. 2) Israel has quotas on Arabs in Israel and has no intention of allowing those Arab people to live in the Israeli "Jewish" state "from the river to the sea". Is that the Israel you are supporting? .
DogOnPorch Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 Yes you are missing the point. Try again: 1) Ever-expanding Israel aspires to "from the river to the sea" and aggressively occupies territory to achieve that, pushing Arabs out of their homes, off their land. 2) Israel has quotas on Arabs in Israel and has no intention of allowing those Arab people to live in the Israeli "Jewish" state "from the river to the sea". Is that the Israel you are supporting? . Unlike yourself, I have no horse in this race. Just a history book...and you like to deny history, it would seem. Camp David, etc....a figment of some Zionist's imagination...lol. This I know: -The Arabs started the war after hitching their wagon to the Mufti fresh from escaping from his war crimes trials. -Arabs can't win a war for the life of them. -Israel gives land for peace. Hamas and the PLO should try it. Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
jacee Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 Unlike yourself, I have no horse in this race. Just a history book...and you like to deny history, it would seem. Camp David, etc....a figment of some Zionist's imagination...lol. This I know: -The Arabs started the war after hitching their wagon to the Mufti fresh from escaping from his war crimes trials. -Arabs can't win a war for the life of them. -Israel gives land for peace. Hamas and the PLO should try it. Try living in the present. .
DogOnPorch Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 Try living in the present. . History, by its very nature, deals with the past and how it affects the present. Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it...and they do. Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
jacee Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 History, by its very nature, deals with the past and how it affects the present. Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it...and they do. That isn't really helpful to the present situation ... but thanks for chiming in. .
marcus Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 (edited) Palestinian is a rather relative term. In my lifetime, these same folks were Jordanian and Egyptian. Even Arafat was born in Cairo. What's your point? Majority of Israelis, before Israel was created, were born outside of that region. Edited May 4, 2016 by marcus "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
DogOnPorch Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 That isn't really helpful to the present situation ... but thanks for chiming in. . Oh really? How many times have the Arabs attacked and failed miserably to eliminate the Israelis? Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 What's your point? Majority of Israelis, before Israel was created, were born outside of that region. The majority of Israelis trace their roots to those Muslim countries they were evicted from. Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Argus Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 A Jewish state ... from the river to the sea ... without the Arabs who live there? There seems to be an awful lot of Arabs living there, millions, in fact. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
DogOnPorch Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 There seems to be an awful lot of Arabs living there, millions, in fact. A simple fact denied...therefore it is not relevant. Genocide sounds much more edgy... Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Argus Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 (edited) This is the crux of the topic. We criticize Israel for oppression and attacks on Palestinians You don't, however, criticize the 'oppression' of the Palestinians over their own people, or the 'oppression' of ALL other nearby Arab governments, but instead side with them in their fanatical hatred of the Jewish state and their desire to destroy it, a hatred born out of their belief that entire area of the world is for Muslims to rule and ONLY Muslims. You NEVER criticize the Muslims around them for their bigotry towards Jew or Christians or gays or their misogyny to women (unless you can get in a dig against a US ally). You ignore the torture and murder and executions and oppression and rape and brutality throughout that entire region with bored indifference. But if a Jew bumps into a Palestinian you're suddenly agog with horror "Oh the humanity!" No. No antisemitism THERE. Edited May 4, 2016 by Argus "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 What's your point? Majority of Israelis, before Israel was created, were born outside of that region. What's your point? The majority of the people of Toronto and Vancouver were born outside this hemisphere. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 A non sequitur Argus is something like this: "Have you spoken to Islam lately?" How is it possible to speak to Islam? How is it possible for you to quote Islam as if it were a person? "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 If this is all you truly see, then you have a limited capacity to read and understand what people write. Either that, or you're playing the tired old antisemite card. Because instead of being on the side of truth and justice, you'd rather try to censor criticism of Israel by supporting and excusing their human rights violations against the Palestinians. Marcus, why don't you for once just come out of the closet and admit that you don't give a damn about Palestinians? It's the JEWS that bother you. You use the word 'Zionist' a lot, but everyone knows you mean Jew. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
jacee Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 You don't, however, criticize the 'oppression' of the Palestinians over their own people, or the 'oppression' of ALL other nearby Arab governments, but instead side with them in their fanatical hatred of the Jewish state and their desire to destroy it, a hatred born out of their belief that entire area of the world is for Muslims to rule and ONLY Muslims. You NEVER criticize the Muslims around them for their bigotry towards Jew or Christians or gays or their misogyny to women (unless you can get in a dig against a US ally). You ignore the torture and murder and executions and oppression and rape and brutality throughout that entire region with bored indifference. But if a Jew bumps into a Palestinian you're suddenly agog with horror "Oh the humanity!" No. No antisemitism THERE. You take it personally ... as Jew ... when I criticize Israel. That's not my problem. Some of Israel's actions are abhorrent. You expect me to support Israel's abhorrent actions? I'm criticizing the abhorrent actions of a state that demands Canada's unquestioning support. All those who criticize are 'antisemitic'. I do not support Israel without questioning and demanding less abhorrent behaviour. And you do Israel no favour by labelling all questioning as 'antisemitic'. .
DogOnPorch Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 You take it personally ... as Jew ... when I criticize Israel. That's not my problem. Some of Israel's actions are abhorrent. You expect me to support Israel's abhorrent actions? I'm criticizing the abhorrent actions of a state that demands Canada's unquestioning support. All those who criticize are 'antisemitic'. I do not support Israel without questioning and demanding less abhorrent behaviour. And you do Israel no favour by labelling all questioning as 'antisemitic'. . The thing is, you ignore or deny history in favor of your anti-Israel POV that requires Israel to be the 'bad guy'. They didn't start this war...and continue to deal with people that refuse to make peace. Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Argus Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 You take it personally ... as Jew ... when I criticize Israel. I'm not a Jew. And I've criticized Israel myself. I think the settlements should be abandoned, except Jerusalem, and they should build their giant wall around Israel's proper borders. That's not my problem. Some of Israel's actions are abhorrent. The only reason you care about Israel's 'abhorrent' actions is because they're Jews. You clearly don't care about the abhorrent actions of the Palestinian governments, or those in Lebanon or Iran or Syria or Egypt or any of the other surrounding states. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
marcus Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 The majority of Israelis trace their roots to those Muslim countries they were evicted from. Do majority of them do? What about the Russian and other European Jews? Some were 'evicted', some left on their own merit. Your thoughts on the 700,000 Palestinians who were evicted from what is now Israel, with the 500+ Palestinian villages that were demolished after Israel became a country? "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
marcus Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 Marcus, why don't you for once just come out of the closet and admit that you don't give a damn about Palestinians? It's the JEWS that bother you. You use the word 'Zionist' a lot, but everyone knows you mean Jew. Who is everyone? You and your small army of apologists for human rights violators? I have already stated my stance. If you repeat that again, I will report you for defamation and the inability to have the capacity to debate like a mature adult. "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
marcus Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 What's your point? The majority of the people of Toronto and Vancouver were born outside this hemisphere. Okay? And? You're unable to follow the conversation between DoP and I. You should make a little more effort to understand something, before you respond to it. "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
jacee Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 (edited) There seems to be an awful lot of Arabs living there, millions, in fact.So Israel wants to absorb them all?Isn't that why Israel has quotas to keep them out? Isn't that why Israel keeps expanding and pushing them out? . Edited May 4, 2016 by jacee
Rue Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 What's your point? Majority of Israelis, before Israel was created, were born outside of that region. So were the majority of Palestinians. So what is your point.
jacee Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 I'm not a Jew. And I've criticized Israel myself. I think the settlements should be abandoned, except Jerusalem, and they should build their giant wall around Israel's proper borders. The only reason you care about Israel's 'abhorrent' actions is because they're Jews. I agree with you about the settlements - Israel's abhorrent aggressions must end. That is my point. My only point. Israel must stop invading and pushing Arabs out. So I'm an antisemite and you're not? Lol .
Rue Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 (edited) This is the crux of the topic. We criticize Israel for oppression and attacks on Palestinians. We are called "anti-semites" who don't support Israel as a Jewish state. That's insulting and it's a propaganda tactic to derail conversation. You criticize Jews for being Israelis. You criticize Jews for choosing to express their Jewish identity through through Israeli nationality. You don't criticize Muslims for being Muslim nationals living in Muslim states. You don't criticize Catholics for having their own state, the Vatican. You don't question Anglicans for having the Anglican state of England. That makes you a selective bigot. You choose only Jews to criticize for having a state, not Muslims, not Christians, just Jews. That's a bull crap double standard, You ignore Muslim states. You ignore their dhimmitude and institutionalized discrimination that defines Jews as inferiors unable to own land. You ignore that the very reason Muslims do not recognize a Jewish state and all these years later engage in terrorism against Israel to wipe it out is because Muslims can not accept the idea that a Jew could have the same legal rights as a Muslim. No more, no less. You won't admit that Muslims have all the rights in a Jewish state no Jew has in a Muslim state or had in a Christian ststate. That is the crux of your denial and that is what leads to you being called out like anyone else who does the same as a two faced selective bigot against Jews. If your comments were limited to simply Israeli state policies they would not be challenged..your comments however go further and when they go further to engage in bigotry they are called out. They are not called out only because you challenge Israeli state policies. As for your claiming you can't be challenged and called out as a bigot why not? Where the phack do you get off claiming Jews can't have a state but Muslims can. If that is not blatant bigotry what is? What you think you have special dispensation that being a two faced bigot about Jewish rights exempts you from being called out as a bigot? Where do you get off claiming Muslims have rights Jews can not? Take your bigotry and take direct ownership of it and understand, your two faced double standards trying to define Jews as inferior to Muslims, can get stuffed. Edited May 4, 2016 by Rue
Rue Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 I agree with you about the settlements - Israel's abhorrent aggressions must end. That is my point. My only point. Israel must stop invading and pushing Arabs out. So I'm an antisemite and you're not? Lol . Don't play. You know better. Stop playing. Youyr two faced standard where you believe Jews can't be nationals but Muslims can be makes you an anti semite. Your decision to have one standard of legal rights for Muslims but deny the very same ones for Jews makes you a two faced blatant anti Jewish bigot, not your position on settlements or criticicism of Israeli state policies. Stop playing. Stop weaseling out of responsibility for your bigoted double standard against Jewish rights. Its there for all to read.
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