Why is criticizm of Israel considered Anti-semitism?

[Guest]

Talking about anti semitism, it's being offered as a reason why no-one is speaking out about these utterly ridiculous wingnuts abusing kids.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/calls-for-urgent-inquiry-into-sexual-abuse-of-jewish-children-in-illegal-schools-a6973571.html

WTF is wrong with people that they will refrain from speaking out about, or at least investigating, child abuse for fear of being thought of as a bit intolerant?

Would criticism of these Jews really be anti semitism?

I see a good quote from Stephen Fry in the comments section there. I wonder if the mods would object to it as my sig.

[Argus]

Talking about anti semitism, it's being offered as a reason why no-one is speaking out about these utterly ridiculous wingnuts abusing kids.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/calls-for-urgent-inquiry-into-sexual-abuse-of-jewish-children-in-illegal-schools-a6973571.html

WTF is wrong with people that they will refrain from speaking out about, or at least investigating, child abuse for fear of being thought of as a bit intolerant?

Would criticism of these Jews really be anti semitism?

Not in the least, unless you were so politically correct that you were terrified of ever saying anything critical of a minority member. Which is the same sort of mentality which allowed so much child abuse by mainly Pakistani Muslims to thrive in England.

[Guest]

Not in the least, unless you were so politically correct that you were terrified of ever saying anything critical of a minority member. Which is the same sort of mentality which allowed so much child abuse by mainly Pakistani Muslims to thrive in England.

I agree entirely, but the article talks of just that. I'm just wondering what the hell is wrong with them.

[eyeball]

Ghandi was fighting for the freedom of his own people.

Ghandi was also a terrorist who was bent on harming our children and making our communities dangerous.

Gandhi was declared terrorist and declaration sold cheaply

New Delhi, May 22: Has it got to do with too much of terror around the world? But it could have made an interesting connection with the man of non-violence. Mahatma Gandhi was once declared a terrorist. And a rare British Parliament paper declaring the Father of Nation a terrorist in 1932, was sold for a pathetic sum of just £260 yesterday at an auction in London.

Read more at: http://www.oneindia.com/2013/05/22/gandhi-was-declared-terrorist-declaration-sold-cheap-1222573.html

[Guest]

If they'd asked me, I'd have given £270.

[eyeball]

Talking about anti semitism, it's being offered as a reason why no-one is speaking out about these utterly ridiculous wingnuts abusing kids.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/calls-for-urgent-inquiry-into-sexual-abuse-of-jewish-children-in-illegal-schools-a6973571.html

WTF is wrong with people that they will refrain from speaking out about, or at least investigating, child abuse for fear of being thought of as a bit intolerant?

Would criticism of these Jews really be anti semitism?

I see a good quote from Stephen Fry in the comments section there. I wonder if the mods would object to it as my sig.

Sure it would if all Jews were characterized as being child molesters.

I have little doubt it would also be considered very anti-semitic if this case was being discussed in the context of an anti-immigrant rant about enclaves of unqualified, non English speaking, unemployable youth who probably don't share many of our values.

An investigation by The Independent revealed that thousands of Jewish children are missing from full time education records in the London borough of Hackney and are feared to be attending illegal, ultra-strict faith schools. The schools teach only religious scripture and all lessons are in Yiddish; meaning that many children with no qualifications and unable to speak English. Physical beatings and sexual abuse is also alleged to take place at some schools.

Edited April 8, 2016 by eyeball

[Moonlight Graham]

Ghandi was fighting for the freedom of his own people. The BDS people are fighting to punish Israel because they don't like Jews. There's a difference.

Do you actually believe this? I'm sure there' some, but like seriously Argus?

[Moonlight Graham]

Ghandi was also a terrorist who was bent on harming our children and making our communities dangerous.

Gandhi raped me when I was in my mother's womb too.

[Guest]

Sure it would if all Jews were characterized as being child molesters.

I have little doubt it would also be considered very anti-semitic if this case was being discussed in the context of an anti-immigrant rant about enclaves of unqualified, non English speaking, unemployable youth who probably don't share many of our values.

Yeah, but I was only talking about the child molesting ones. I think I might have twigged it as anti semitism if it said all jews were child molestors.

[Guest]

Gandhi raped me when I was in my mother's womb too.

That explains the sandals, then!

[Moonlight Graham]

That explains the sandals, then!

He used to wear suede loafers.

[eyeball]

Yeah, but I was only talking about the child molesting ones. I think I might have twigged it as anti semitism if it said all jews were child molestors.

Exactly, it wouldn't and shouldn't be considered anti-semitic at all. At worst it might be construed as being anti-theistic to include mention of their faith as if it had something to do with the alleged crimes.

What about those enclaves I mentioned though. I realize this is happening in England but what if we were talking about central Alberta?

[GostHacked]

It has a great deal to do with the thread topic - antisemitism is often now given as the sole reason for Palestinian actions

I put to you a simple question - is land not central to this dispute.

It's a dispute, but I am focusing more on the notion that not all critique of Israel can be classified as anti-semitism.

Do I criticize Israel because I hate Jews? No. Do I hate Israeli's? No. Do I hate Zionists? Well not fond of them. I think I was even accused of anti-semitism for knowing the difference between the three, or recognizing there is a difference at all.

[Guest]

Exactly, it wouldn't and shouldn't be considered anti-semitic at all. At worst it might be construed as being anti-theistic to include mention of their faith as if it had something to do with the alleged crimes.

What about those enclaves I mentioned though. I realize this is happening in England but what if we were talking about central Alberta?

It shouldn't be, and isn't, but some people worry it might be.

Isn't the idea to prevent them from becoming unqualified, non English speaking, unemployable youth who probably don't share many of our values? The point of the article, I mean. Should not all students be given the same opportunites?

[eyeball]

I don't know if prevention means messing with their culture, but as a starting point they should certainly have the same right to emigrate or flee to an enclave of their choosing like anyone else and live there free of bigotry and characterization.

[Guest]

I don't know if prevention means messing with their culture, but as a starting point they should certainly have the same right to emigrate or flee to an enclave of their choosing like anyone else and live there free of bigotry and characterization.

Sure, just not free to do what they are doing with kids.

[jacee]

So here is an excellent example. This person repeatedly posts such things in "horror" at what an awful place the Jewish state is. Of course, anyone even ever so slightly familiar with the world knows that far, far, far worse things are happening every single day all around them. 12 year old girls are being sold in batches as sex slaves right next door, for example. 12 year old girls are being executed in Iraq. 12 year old girls are being killed by government bombs and raped by soldiers in Sudan.

You will never see any comment on any of those things, however, from those who repeatedly spout propaganda broadcasts from Al Jazeera.

All of those would be considered heinous crimes against children, and the perpetrators of such crimes would be considered heinous criminals.

Any 12 year old in an Israeli prison will be treated well and have access to an independent court system. Not so in ANY other state around the middle east. That includes the Palestinian territories, where the courts are lackeys to the governments and torture and extra-judicial executions are routine.

What the hell is a 12 year old doing in jail?

Apparently, according to your comparisons, Israel has a right to be a brutal and despicable regime of child abusers and human rights abusers ... because there are others like that?

That's a rogue regime that deserves international condemnation and intervention ... not international support and funding!

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.712955?v=59F90586136901A0D68C04E49AE7BEAC

The requests are part of a campaign by human rights activists and lawyers to bring about the girls immediate release, on the grounds that detaining someone so young violates both Israeli and international law.

Ah ... it's a violation of Israeli law. We'll thank goodness all Israelis are not that brutal and despicable. Obviously some who made the law weren't.

So who are the brutal and despicable Israelis who would jail a 12 year old ?

The current far right wing regime obviously.

Well ... despicable them!!

Let's hope other more conscientious and humane Israelis speak up against the brutal regime and refuse to be condone such inhumane and despicable behaviour.

After all, such brutal treatment of a child reflects on all Israelis ... if they don't speak up against it.

But not all Jews of course ... as long as they speak up against it.

.

Edited April 8, 2016 by jacee

[SpankyMcFarland]

Far worse things DO happen in other countries, but they are not part of the Western club. Israel has an especially privileged relationship with the US and a higher level of scrutiny comes with that.

[Argus]

.All of those would be conside FARred heinous crimes against children, and the perpetrators of such crimes would be considered heinous criminals.

And yet, condemning them and demanding harsh treatment for them is not something any of you seem to find necessary.

You're far, far, FAR more earnest and determined to punish Jews. I mean, uh, Zionists.

What the hell is a 12 year old doing in jail?

What is a 12 year old doing being sold as a sex slave?

Apparently, according to your comparisons, Israel has a right to be a brutal and despicable regime of child abusers and human rights abusers ... because there are others like that?

What I thought I was clearly demonstrating was that if a person was really all that bothered by bad treatment of 12 year old girls they'd be furiously demanding action be taken against their mistreatment in the hundred odd countries where they are treated worse than in the single Jewish country. Since none of you seem much concerned with the brutality meted out to 12 year olds in those hundred other countries where they are treated worse I can only suspect that something else motivates you besides concern for 12 year olds. Like, maybe, a desperate desire to condemn that one Jewish state yet again.

[Argus]

Far worse things DO happen in other countries, but they are not part of the Western club. Israel has an especially privileged relationship with the US and a higher level of scrutiny comes with that.

Israel is a nation which has been at war for the entire lifetimes of most of the people who live there, and the girl was concealing a weapon at a time when girls her age, or not much older, have tried to stab Israelis or succeeded in doing so. Most of the criticism of Israel generally falls into three camps. The first is made up of Muslims and is entirely motivated by hatred of Jews. The second group is made up of anti-Semites and is entirely motivated by hatred of Jews. The third is made up of a brainless hand-wringing group of self-hating western liberal bigots who presume that it is their nobly self-appointed task to 'protect' all non-Whites from any accusations that they might be responsible for anything they do, and whose reflexive hatred of anything military causes instant, knee-jerk sympathy for 'civilians' who come into violent conflict with those wearing uniforms, no matter what the reason. There is no thinking to their reactions, and no attempt at understanding context. For much of this group of whining dullards there is no real difference between Israelis, Zionists, and Jews, given the Jew can be largely understood as sympathizing with his co-religionists on the pathetic excuse that all those Arabs surrounding them want to murder every man, woman and child who is Jewish.

[jacee]

And yet, condemning them and demanding harsh treatment for them is not something any of you seem to find necessary.

You're far, far, FAR more earnest and determined to punish Jews. I mean, uh, Zionists.

Israelis aspire to be as badass as those?

Pity.

I'll strike Israel off my list of civilized countries then.

You've made your point:

Israel just doesn't have what it takes to be civilized.

I finally get it Argus.

I will no longer be shocked by Israeli depravity.

/sarcasm

.

Edited April 8, 2016 by jacee

[GostHacked]

Some of these last few posts show that some of you can't stay on topic. But I expected that to happen.

[Rue]

Far worse things DO happen in other countries, but they are not part of the Western club. Israel has an especially privileged relationship with the US and a higher level of scrutiny comes with that.

You need to get a grasp on reality and find out what is going on in your own back yard let alone the US if you think or the other anti Israelis on this board think Western nations are superior to Israel when it comes to treatment of children, human rights, etc.

Also the double standard you try justify saying you are holding Israel to a different standard than Muslim nations because its a Western nation is a crock. You have no clue what goes on in Western nations or proof they have less human rights violations than Israel or do things better than Israel.

Your claim is laughable because its Israel the West calls on for help to fight terrorists.

By the way this privileged relationship you talk of with the US which permits you to then assume that is your rationalization for the double standard is a crock. You don't speak for the US and the US does not say to Israel behave like us. What fantasy world do you live in. You think you are still in the colonial days when your ancestors pranced about converting savages and dictating to them how they should conduct themselves?

Where to you get off presuming to know what the moral standard is let alone the one Israel should adhere to and then presume to lecture Israel on it.

What is it with the need for you anti Israelis to take on this elitist snit snot attitude that you talk down to Israel as to its behavior.

Have you been to Israel? Have you ever lived with terrorism? Of course not.

The US has a relationship of equality with Israel. John Kerry and Obama made a-holes of themselves precisely because they pranced through the Middle East presuming to tell Israel how to behave while getting into bed with Hezbollah, Hamas, Iran, Al Quaeda, the current anti Christian, racist genocidal regime of Sudan, on and on. This elitist attitude you take on presuming you are morally superior can tell Israelis how they should conduct themselves is a colonial attitude that dies hard. You just can't resist telling the savages how they fail to live up to your lily white standards.

You so sure you live a moral life?

Why use the US as your prop. You have no respect for the US why prop it as the standard you claim Israel does not live up to?

The standard in Israel for upholding its laws and human rights is far better than it is in most European nations and if you think Canada or the US is any different than Israel in how it handles terrorism, homicide, you need to grow up and get real just like Prince Justin of Trudeau will when he gets into bed with the UN and the agency funding terrorism on the West Bank which he announced this week.

Your imaginary world where Israel do things no Western nation does is a crock. It comes from the fact you have never been to Israel and have no clue what it actually is like to live there, not a clue. You think you do and that you can pronounce moral judgements because you sit in a privileged sheltered environment far from conflict second guessing those exposed to it daily.

If you had to walk the streets not knowing if you would be stabbed by anyone at anytime your snitty tone of condescending comment to Israel would change. You'd be the first demanding police protection.

Edited April 9, 2016 by Rue

[Rue]

Israelis aspire to be as badass as those?

Pity.

I'll strike Israel off my list of civilized countries then.

You've made your point:

Israel just doesn't have what it takes to be civilized.

I finally get it Argus.

I will no longer be shocked by Israeli depravity.

/sarcasm

.

Israel does not aspire to be a bad ass and Israel for that matter doesn't give a rat's ass what some privileged sheltered naïve Canadian who takes her standard of living and freedom for granted and thinks she can judge Israelis and walk in their shoes as they face each day terrorism and threats to their existence.

Your selective shock speaks for itself and quite frankly no Israeli gives a God damn what you think or get upset about-they will do what ever it takes to protect their people from terrorism and wanton acts of violence just as you would expect your country to do if you were threatened.

Yah I know if someone came at you with a knife, you'd say, please stab me, I am shouldn't live where I do and express myself as a Canadian. I am an invader from Europe.

Right. Your moral outrage is laughable. You remind me of a fat man stuffing his face with cheeseburgers telling others to exercise dietary restraint.

Excuse me fatso take a look in the mirror.

Edited April 9, 2016 by Rue

[Rue]

What the hell is a 12 year old doing in jail?

Apparently, according to your comparisons, Israel has a right to be a brutal and despicable regime of child abusers and human rights abusers ... because there are others like that?

Are you that oblivious to what is going on in your own backkard, really? What do you think happens to a 10 year old, a 12 year old when they commit serious crimes your family?

Its easy for you living in your bubble not to have the faintest clue what happens to and how we treat such people. but you need a reality dose.

Our standard is no different than Israel's. We lock them up only in Canada we call the lock ups other names to bleeding hearts like you don't fret they are in what would otherwise be called a jail.

You need to spend one day with me at some of these institutions and be left alone for just ten minutes wih some 11 year old sociopath to see how naïve your standards are.

Do you think its not possible to be a terrorist simply because you are12? What because one is 12 poof and presto they aren't a cold blooded killer hyped up on religious extremism?

Are you that naïve?

I have sat face to face with kids 9, 10, 11, that would rip your organs out and eat them if they had chance. How naïve can you be?

Israel makes mistakes. Individual Israeli soldiers and police can act excessively. Are you telling me like Spanky that there is no politice excessive force in the US or Canada? Hmmm? You agree with his standard that pretends the West is perfect and Israel isn't and its only Israel that makes mistakes trying to protect its democratic institutions?

Really?

Get off the righteous indignation shtick and look in your own back yard. Yah you can take in 20,000 Syrians and pat yourself on the back for saving the unwashed masses from civil war now what?

Where will you be when they fall through the cracks and become unemployed, violent, prone to terrorism? Think you got it figured out?

Really? Then go up North and save the aboriginals and stop obsessing about Israel. Go fix something in your own back yard first, then I might take your indignation a bit more seriously,

violence and what do you think would happen to them if they became terrorists and attacked you and y