Donald vs Hillary

[Argus]

40 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

Well, that's not really what was asked.

Well, that's exactly what was asked. You asked how they got their money. I answered.

[Hal 9000]

Just now, Argus said:

Well, that's exactly what was asked. You asked how they got their money. I answered.

I wish you'd have read the earlier messages because the conversation was about the Clinton Foundation.  As far as their personal money goes, that of course comes from (ironically) many of the same people who donate to the charity, but another conversation.

[The_Squid]

Even when it comes to a sick baby in his family, Donald Trump is all business. The megabuilder and his siblings Robert and Maryanne terminated their nephew’s family medical coverage a week after he challenged the will of their father, Fred Trump. “This was so shocking, so disappointing and so vindictive,” said niece Lisa Trump, whose son, William, was born 18 months ago at Mount Sinai Medical Center with a rare neurological disorder that produces violent seizures, brain damage and medical bills topping $300,000.

http://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/what-sort-of-man-is-donald-trump

 

[Argus]

3 hours ago, Hal 9000 said:

I wish you'd have read the earlier messages because the conversation was about the Clinton Foundation.  As far as their personal money goes, that of course comes from (ironically) many of the same people who donate to the charity, but another conversation.

So you think they're offering up big rewards to people who donate to their charity? Why? They don't really profit off the charity. What evidence do you have those who have given money to their charity of profited off it in any way which can be described as unethical or illegal?

[kimmy]

4 minutes ago, Argus said:

So you think they're offering up big rewards to people who donate to their charity? Why? They don't really profit off the charity. What evidence do you have those who have given money to their charity of profited off it in any way which can be described as unethical or illegal?

It's one of those "common sense" type things that Trump supporters and people like Rudy Giuliani are always saying. "The Clinton Foundation got a whole lot of donations, and somehow the Clintons got rich! Just put two and two together! It's common sense!"

There's not a shred of evidence that the Clintons have used their foundation to personally enrich themselves, and the Clinton Foundation is highly rated in terms of the percentage of donations being used for actual charitable work. But for the Trump supporter, innuendo is as good as fact. They've already decided that Hillary is a crook, and so it just makes sense that she's dipping into the charity to line her own pockets.

Mind you when Trump gets caught red-handed using his fake charity to pay legal expenses or bribe politicians, it's not an issue because "oh, they all do it."

 -k

[bush_cheney2004]

17 minutes ago, kimmy said:

 ....and the Clinton Foundation is highly rated in terms of the percentage of donations being used for actual charitable work.

 

So what ?   The Clinton Foundation should have been doing a lot more for Haiti than just getting rich.   If they were influence peddling it doesn't matter how high the foundation rated.   They turned Haiti into a permanent humanitarian disaster slush fund, and Canada was in on it.

Edited October 17, 2016 by bush_cheney2004

[Queenmandy85]

In 1972, George McGovern campaigned on peace in Viet Nam and lost all 50 states to President Nixon, only carrying Washington DC.

Mr. Trump has admitted to bragging about committing sexual assault and is projected to carry 24 states. 

 

Edited October 17, 2016 by Queenmandy85

[bush_cheney2004]

Bill Clinton carried 31 states + DC in 1996 despite sexual harassment and assault allegations.  Not that big a deal for some.....

[kimmy]

13 hours ago, Hal 9000 said:

 I can't believe that you people don't understand the implications of a government giving favours in exchange for money.  It's inconceivable really!

I'm certainly aware that there's allegations of impropriety against the Clintons. Lots of things to question in her record.  And if she were running against a real candidate, those would be getting a lot of scrutiny.  But running against the most absurdly bad candidate a major party has ever offered to the American people, Hillary's problems seem minor in comparison.

You continue to operate under the misconception that people are unaware of Hillary's warts and blemishes. Not true. People are aware of her flaws, it's just that compared to the guy she's running against, she is so much better. It's not that people think Hillary is perfect, it's that Trump is such a gigantic clown that he makes Hillary look like a great choice by comparison. Republicans could not have picked a worse candidate.  He's ridiculously unqualified. He's got a slimy history as both a businessman and as a human being. He's a clown, a buffoon, a used-car salesman, . And the constant stream of deranged crap that comes out of his mouth and his Twitter account raises a serious question about whether his brain is beginning to succumb to dementia or senility.

 

13 hours ago, Hal 9000 said:

Except, there is no evidence that Trump would do that whereas there is documented proof that the Clintons have.  See Haiti.

Are you serious? One need only look at how he's used his presidential campaign to funnel money from donors and the Republican Party into his own businesses to know what kind of president he'd be. Republican donors have paid for millions upon millions of dollars to Trump businesses for venues and accommodations, air travel, food and drink, merchandise, and even copies of Trump's book. Or you could look at his charity, where charitable donations have paid for sports memorabilia, portraits of Trump, legal expenses, and bribes to politicians, as discussed earlier. Or you could look at his business history, where people who bought shares in Trump's publicly traded company were rewarded with plunging share prices while Trump funneled money from the business into his own pocket and offloaded his own debts onto the business.

You've got all the evidence you need to know what kind of guy Trump is, you're just trying your hardest to ignore it.

 -k

[GostHacked]

23 hours ago, cybercoma said:

We don't have to play the what if game with Trump.

Actually you do.  All of that is alleged until proven in a court of law. That's how all this works. Clinton had her time with the FBI and in front of several panels for hearings.. Even if he did say it .. it's locker talk. And not even an issue considering Hillary stood by her adulterating husband through those scandals, and is STILL WITH HIM!  Which puts her judgment into question.

[msj]

The thing is what we do know about Trump is awful as already explained ad nauseum in this thread. 

But it's worse than that: what don't we know? What can we only speculate at that makes it worse for him?

His tax returns may help assess certain ties to, say, Russian backers. 

But he won't release them. 

Then we have a guy who will tell anyone and everyone what a successful businessman he is and that this somehow qualifies him for government. 

Well, even if he was successful, 6 bankruptcies and $916 million in losses for which he has likely not earned enough after 18 years to crawl out of to start paying tax, prove otherwise (even if one could demonstrate how a businessperson would be effective in government).  

Either way the man is a complete and total fraud unless he were to release his tax returns and they showed otherwise. 

But again, if that were the case then he would have turned them over by now.  

He will lose the election, lose Melania, and will die a lonely and broke man.  

Worse than Conrad Black but just as deserving. Sad! 

[cybercoma]

I'm so sick of people excusing it as locker room talk. That's the dumbest garbage I've ever heard. I've never heard anyone in a locker room or anywhere else brag about raping women. That kind of crap would get you punched in the mouth where I'm from.  This wasn't some guy talking about how hot a chick is and saying what he wishes he could do to them. This was a guy bragging about sexually assaulting women and getting away with it because he's rich and powerful. Shame on you.

And how are you going to pin Bill's indiscretions on Hillary? Of course she's going to stand behind her husband because most women in that position would probably think the women are lying. And considering the women in question had family members, friends, and other co-workers swear under oath that they were bragging about their relationship with Bill, talking about how happy they were, and how exciting it was to be with him, their allegations were actually proven false. That was a smear campaign when you look at the facts.

As for Trump, Summer Zervos is a Republican. Why would she be involved with a Democrat smear campaign against Trump? She's literally corroborating what he said he does. There are also witnesses to the fact that she was upset by it at the time it happened, but was scared about doing anything about it. 

You might think you're being level-headed and impartial but you're literally buying into the Trump campaign narrative. It's not even the Republican narrative because GOP members with two braincells to rub together have distanced themselves from this disgusting scumbag.

Edited October 17, 2016 by cybercoma

[GostHacked]

2 minutes ago, cybercoma said:

I'm so sick of people excusing it as locker room talk. That's the dumbest garbage I've ever heard.

So is Clinton's reponses to Benghazi (the movie hahah) or the email servers (like wipe them with a cloth)

Trump is terrible with women and Clinton is terrible with classified /top secret documents. 

Which dead horse you wanna beat more?

[cybercoma]

6 minutes ago, msj said:

Well, even if he was successful, 6 bankruptcies and $916 million in losses for which he has likely not earned enough after 18 years to crawl out of to start paying tax, prove otherwise (even if one could demonstrate how a businessperson would be effective in government).

He lost a billion dollars on casinos for crying out loud. Casinos are designed to take people's money. Think about that.

[Wilber]

9 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

In 1972, George McGovern campaigned on peace in Viet Nam and lost all 50 states to President Nixon, only carrying Washington DC.

Mr. Trump has admitted to bragging about committing sexual assault and is projected to carry 24 states. 

 

We've come a long way baby. Ain't "progress" and the internet great.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Wilber

[cybercoma]

1 minute ago, GostHacked said:

So is Clinton's reponses to Benghazi (the movie hahah) or the email servers (like wipe them with a cloth)

Trump is terrible with women and Clinton is terrible with classified /top secret documents. 

Which dead horse you wanna beat more?

Trump is terrible with women? He's a rapist. That's not terrible with women.

Clinton was cleared by the FBI on the classified emails. I'm not sure if you missed that or what.
Clinton was also cleared by numerous investigations into Benghazi. There were several congressional hearings on it and not a single one of them found her responsible. You might have missed that as well.

Unless you've abandoned all objective reality and choose to believe that there's some grand conspiracy where Clinton was able to manipulate multiple congressional hearings and the FBI investigation, I don't known what to tell you. All of that is laid bare. There's public records on it all. Yet, people choose to believe conspiracy theory garbage about it all. It's baffling.

[GostHacked]

36 minutes ago, cybercoma said:

Trump is terrible with women? He's a rapist. That's not terrible with women.

Clinton was cleared by the FBI on the classified emails. I'm not sure if you missed that or what.

Has there been a conviction for Trump's assaults?

[BubberMiley]

2 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

Has there been a conviction for Trump's assaults?

Allegations don't have to be proven in a court of law in order for someone to lose votes.

[cybercoma]

4 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

Has there been a conviction for Trump's assaults?

He admitted to doing it. He bragged about doing it.

[GostHacked]

1 minute ago, BubberMiley said:

Allegations don't have to be proven in a court of law in order for someone to lose votes.

Well since we like to go with legalities (akak Clinton was cleared) , Trump needs his day in court. That's how this works.  You don't have to like it, but you have to accept it.

[Wilber]

A day in court would be Trump's worst nightmare. It's called disclosure. Donald, Please, Please, Please. PLEEEEEEZ sue the NYT.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Wilber

[BubberMiley]

5 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

Well since we like to go with legalities (akak Clinton was cleared) , Trump needs his day in court. That's how this works.  You don't have to like it, but you have to accept it.

People will decide not to vote for Clinton because of the emails, even though she was cleared; people will decide not to vote for Trump because he's a slimy jerk, even though that hasn't been proven in a court of law. I'm not sure what your point is.

[GostHacked]

Just now, BubberMiley said:

People will decide not to vote for Clinton because of the emails, even though she was cleared; people will decide not to vote for Trump because he's a slimy jerk, even though that hasn't been proven in a court of law. I'm not sure what your point is.

There is no point.

[BC_chick]

7 hours ago, kimmy said:

 

You continue to operate under the misconception that people are unaware of Hillary's warts and blemishes. Not true. People are aware of her flaws, it's just that compared to the guy she's running against, she is so much better. It's not that people think Hillary is perfect, it's that Trump is such a gigantic clown that he makes Hillary look like a great choice by comparison. Republicans could not have picked a worse candidate.  He's ridiculously unqualified. He's got a slimy history as both a businessman and as a human being. He's a clown, a buffoon, a used-car salesman, . And the constant stream of deranged crap that comes out of his mouth and his Twitter account raises a serious question about whether his brain is beginning to succumb to dementia or senility.

I agree with everything you say here but you'd be surprised, there are many who don't see any warts on Hillary at all.  Not all, but many do dismiss everything against her as some 'vast right wing conspiracy'.

I think those are the posters who are frustrating the Trump supporters.  

Edited October 17, 2016 by BC_chick

[BubberMiley]

3 minutes ago, BC_chick said:

I agree with everything you say here but you'd be surprised, there are many who don't see any warts on Hillary at all. 

Maybe they just think talking about it now is counter-productive. The consequences could be astounding.