Syrian Refugees.... Justin Trudeau... Racist?

[H10]

According to multiple sources there are roughly 50-60 million refugees world wide. Refugees are defined by the UN as " "owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality, and is unable to, or owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country.""

So my question, as someone who has served in Afghanistan and who has volunteered in real refugee camps in Africa and Europe and Middle East. I recall being in Dadaab (world's largest refugee camp) and coming across multiple Christians who had fled Somalia from their branch of Al Qaeda who kills any Christian who refuses to convert to Islam. I recall something similar in Afghanistan where they kill Christians for being Christians.

Now I recall watching a US Governor saying he won't accept any Syrian refugees. And a group representing muslims said they were going to sue the governor for being discriminatory against Syrians. Which made me think of several things.

1. If refusing to accept Syrian refugees is discriminatory or racist, then isn't giving Syrian refugees express entry over the other 50-60 million refugees in the world discriminatory against all those other nationalities? How is Syrian only refugee not racism?

2. How is it not discrimination to fly in just one nationality of refugees but all the other refugees in real refugee camps who have no money, and cannot even work (because refugees in camps cannot seek employment and there is none in camps).

3. I still do not believe that Syrian refugees even meet the UN definition of refugee. I've heard many of them speak on tv how they are leaving syria because the economy was destroyed by war. While I understand that certainly sucks, that doesn't make you a refugee. There needs to be a specific threat against you based on your race, religion, nationality, social group, political opinion, sexuality etc. Ie. a gay syrian man could say ISIS is going to kill him. That is a real refugee. These are people displaced by war, but we cannot accept and fly in every person displaced by war, they outnumber refugees even more.

4. I believe there is a racism going on in the Trudeau government, there is a major war in Ukraine with lots of people being killed, there is the same Islamic State group in Nigeria and Mali, Cameron, Niger, Chad and Libya, just 2 days after Paris attacked murdered a town of 2000 christians just for being christian. There is crisises in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Mexico, Libya, Egypt where thousands of people have been killed as well. And what about Iraq. Isn't it the ISLAMIC STATE in SYRIA AND IRAQ? Why only Syrian refugees when Christians are being butchered in Iraq too!

This is the real racism that the media never talks about coming from the Trudeau government. In my view Sttephen Harper was much more fair. At least he denied most refugees and the few he take in were Christians who are REAL refugees. People made fun of Harper's "old stock Canadian" comment. But Trudeau had a far more significant racist outburst. He called Canada a nation of immigrants. Think about what he is telling native indians. You aren't an immigrant, so Canada isn't for you, its an immigrant nation and you aren't included. I think Trudeau is going to show his true racist colors over time and people will be begging for Harper back once the honey moon wears off.

[dialamah]

We don't need any more religious people in Canada - Christian, Islam, Sikh, Hindu - any of them. They have their own belief systems and they usually want to force them onto other people, or have us Canadians make special allowances for them - like wearing special clothes or acknowledging their festival days. They also want to build their religious buildings, and take over neighborhoods with their 'own kind'. Most of them are anti-gay, and a lot of the men think they should be allowed to have sex with women of any age, and any time they want - whether she wants to or not. Even the moderate ones judge the rest of us, telling us we aren't good enough to go to heaven, that God disapproves of us.

I think Trudeau should just let non-religious people in as refugees; they are the ones who are truly at risk in these other countries; the rest are just faking. If he doesn't do that, it means he is racist against non-religious people. That is not the Canada I want!

/sarcasm

Edited November 27, 2015 by dialamah

[The_Squid]

It's asinine to say that accepting refugees from one particular war-torn region is racist against everyone else in the world. It simply makes no sense.

And Harper, during the election campaign, said Syrian refugees were a priority, so Harper was just as "racist" as Trudeau. The real issue is you don't like Trudeau.

[-1=e^ipi]

If refusing to accept Syrian refugees is discriminatory or racist

Then I guess the Gulf states must be the most racist of all.

How is Syrian only refugee not racism?

Because Syrian is a nationality, not a race.

I still do not believe that Syrian refugees even meet the UN definition of refugee.

Of course they don't. But that doesn't matter to the PC crowd. Sunni Muslims are more 'diverse' than Christians, Jews or Yazidis, therefore they should be given preference in order to make Canada more diverse.

Think about what he is telling native indians.

Amerindians descend from immigrants too.

Ever heard of the Clovis migration 13000 years ago?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settlement_of_the_Americas

[-1=e^ipi]

Hernanday, you need to check your Christian privilege.

[The_Squid]

Hernanday, you need to check your Christian privilege.

Do you really need to bring up your crazy angst with men's "rights" and "white privilege" in every topic you post to?

Edited November 27, 2015 by The_Squid

[eyeball]

We don't need any more religious people in Canada - Christian, Islam, Sikh, Hindu - any of them.

/sarcasm

I get it but seriously, what we really don't need more of? Attempts to reveal or discern some meaningful pattern amongst everything the OP has scattered about like some witch-doctor's chicken bones.

[-1=e^ipi]

Attempts to reveal or discern some meaningful pattern amongst everything the OP has scattered about like some witch-doctor's chicken bones.

This is clearly a microaggression against black people. Check your white privilege.

[notca]

This frenzy to bring in Syrian refugees en masse is an emotional response to the picture of the drowned little boy washed up on the beach. When people allow their emotions to do their thinking they develop tunnel vision and focus only on that one issue.

I think the Trudeau government has grasped this as a means of gaining even more popularity, extending the 'honeymoon', so to speak. I agree completely that they are demonstrating discrimination and racism by going all out for Syrian refugees while ignoring the desperate plight of others.

I also agree that Harper was more realistic and much less willing to sacrifice principles to gain public approval. That is what defeated him. Politics does not agree with principled people.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Charles Anthony
excessive quoting; deleted re-copied [Opening Post]

[notca]

We don't need any more religious people in Canada - Christian, Islam, Sikh, Hindu - any of them. They have their own belief systems and they usually want to force them onto other people, or have us Canadians make special allowances for them - like wearing special clothes or acknowledging their festival days. They also want to build their religious buildings, and take over neighborhoods with their 'own kind'. Most of them are anti-gay, and a lot of the men think they should be allowed to have sex with women of any age, and any time they want - whether she wants to or not. Even the moderate ones judge the rest of us, telling us we aren't good enough to go to heaven, that God disapproves of us.

I think Trudeau should just let non-religious people in as refugees; they are the ones who are truly at risk in these other countries; the rest are just faking. If he doesn't do that, it means he is racist against non-religious people. That is not the Canada I want!

/sarcasm

Canada is supposed to be a secular country - Church and State separate. I think that needs to be enforced.

People can practice their personal religion privately as long as it does not run afoul of the law, but their religious practices should not be allowed to appear anywhere publicly. Only on their own property.

We can hardly prevent religious groups from building places of worship if that what they want to do but promoting and flaunting religion in any manner could certainly be prevented.

As it stands now, any religion but Christianity is allowed to take liberties that Christians are not allowed. As in the abolishment of Christmas carols in what they now call 'Winter Festivals' which used to be Christmas concerts. We are encouraged to acknowledge holidays like Ramadan and allow Muslims time off with pay from their professions to make their pilgrimage to Mecca. But Orthodox Jews whose Sabbath begins Friday evening don't disrupt the workplace to accommodate their religion.

[notca]

We are not 'a nation of immigrants'! We are a nation of descendants of immigrants. New immigrants are given Canadian citizenship and the same rights and privileges as the descendants of immigrants who were born here generations ago and for whom their immigrant ancestors worked and sacrificed to make those rights and privileges available.

Anyone born in this country is NOT an immigrant! I don't care who says it, it is wrong.

[dialamah]

Canada is supposed to be a secular country - Church and State separate. I think that needs to be enforced.

People can practice their personal religion privately as long as it does not run afoul of the law, but their religious practices should not be allowed to appear anywhere publicly. Only on their own property.

We can hardly prevent religious groups from building places of worship if that what they want to do but promoting and flaunting religion in any manner could certainly be prevented.

As it stands now, any religion but Christianity is allowed to take liberties that Christians are not allowed. As in the abolishment of Christmas carols in what they now call 'Winter Festivals' which used to be Christmas concerts. We are encouraged to acknowledge holidays like Ramadan and allow Muslims time off with pay from their professions to make their pilgrimage to Mecca. But Orthodox Jews whose Sabbath begins Friday evening don't disrupt the workplace to accommodate their religion.

Yeah, I keep hearing how Christmas and "Christianity" is being eliminated to accommodate other religions - but I still see trees, and lights and decorations - all taken from the pagan Saturnalia festival, to mark our biggest Christian festival. I still hear Christmas Carols from mid-November till the end of January, I still hear and say Merry Christmas and so far, I haven't been arrested or fined. The Easter Bunny still comes along every Spring with Chocolate, to mark the return of Christ - another huge Christian festival. And we get days off work for this!

Yes, we now know about Ramadan, and we have special parades and festivals in the park for the South Asians round these parts - I forget the name of those festivals. And there's the Chinese New Year, a bright spot in the middle of Winter! But I still don't get a day off for these If only these other religions were provided the same respect Christians have for their festivals, I'd have at least two additional stat holidays a year, maybe as many as five!

Bring on the Festival Equality!

[Big Guy]

We are not 'a nation of immigrants'! We are a nation of descendants of immigrants. New immigrants are given Canadian citizenship and the same rights and privileges as the descendants of immigrants who were born here generations ago and for whom their immigrant ancestors worked and sacrificed to make those rights and privileges available.

Anyone born in this country is NOT an immigrant! I don't care who says it, it is wrong.

About 20% of Canadians to-day in Canada were not born in Canada.

[notca]

Yeah, I keep hearing how Christmas and "Christianity" is being eliminated to accommodate other religions - but I still see trees, and lights and decorations - all taken from the pagan Saturnalia festival, to mark our biggest Christian festival. I still hear Christmas Carols from mid-November till the end of January, I still hear and say Merry Christmas and so far, I haven't been arrested or fined. The Easter Bunny still comes along every Spring with Chocolate, to mark the return of Christ - another huge Christian festival. And we get days off work for this!

Yes, we now know about Ramadan, and we have special parades and festivals in the park for the South Asians round these parts - I forget the name of those festivals. And there's the Chinese New Year, a bright spot in the middle of Winter! But I still don't get a day off for these If only these other religions were provided the same respect Christians have for their festivals, I'd have at least two additional stat holidays a year, maybe as many as five!

Bring on the Festival Equality!

But do you really think that all people who celebrate Christmas are Christians? Christmas is to many just a festive season, a tradition that usually brings goodwill toward mankind into reality for at least a day or two.

It is more the belief that Christmas is widely celebrated a a religious holiday that gets non-Christians dander up. It ain't necessarily so!

If I were going to celebrate Christmas in a religious sense, I would do so privately in my own home. I love Christmas carols because they are traditional, not because of their lyrics. I love Christmas because traffic slows down and people stay home and keep quiet for a few hours. On Christmas Eve there is no traffic and never a peep out of anyone on our street. The silence is wonderful!

[notca]

About 20% of Canadians to-day in Canada were not born in Canada.

Nevertheless, 20% does not make us 'a nation of immigrants' as Trudeau states.

[dialamah]

Nevertheless, 20% does not make us 'a nation of immigrants' as Trudeau states.

Well, really this is just splitting hairs isn't it? Whether we arrived here this generation, last generation or 4 generations ago, the vast majority of us are from elsewhere, and in pretty recent history too.

[dialamah]

But do you really think that all people who celebrate Christmas are Christians? Christmas is to many just a festive season, a tradition that usually brings goodwill toward mankind into reality for at least a day or two.

It is more the belief that Christmas is widely celebrated a a religious holiday that gets non-Christians dander up. It ain't necessarily so!

If I were going to celebrate Christmas in a religious sense, I would do so privately in my own home. I love Christmas carols because they are traditional, not because of their lyrics. I love Christmas because traffic slows down and people stay home and keep quiet for a few hours. On Christmas Eve there is no traffic and never a peep out of anyone on our street. The silence is wonderful!

No, I don't think that all people who celebrate Christmas are Christians, so what does it matter if someone says "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas"? Or if a concert is called Winter Festival instead of Christmas Concert? If people want to view it as an imposition, they're looking for reason to be offended, and honestly I have little compassion for them. If there were a concerted move - say, legislation being pushed - to eliminate the words "Merry Christmas" from the English language, that I would have a problem with.

I like the Christmas season as well; I also like Ramadan because of the celebration that takes place every night when eating is allowed again. I like the festival I ran across by accident one year, where the purpose was to let go of the old, and accept the new into one's life. I think it was in February or March, and I really have no idea where it originated or the name of it.

There's a lot more to celebrate and enjoy about life than just one religion's particular special days, which being an agnostic and not worried about what I think I'm "losing".

[notca]

Well, really this is just splitting hairs isn't it? Whether we arrived here this generation, last generation or 4 generations ago, the vast majority of us are from elsewhere, and in pretty recent history too.

I strongly disagree. I am NOT from elsewhere.

[notca]

No, I don't think that all people who celebrate Christmas are Christians, so what does it matter if someone says "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas"? Or if a concert is called Winter Festival instead of Christmas Concert? If people want to view it as an imposition, they're looking for reason to be offended, and honestly I have little compassion for them. If there were a concerted move - say, legislation being pushed - to eliminate the words "Merry Christmas" from the English language, that I would have a problem with.

I like the Christmas season as well; I also like Ramadan because of the celebration that takes place every night when eating is allowed again. I like the festival I ran across by accident one year, where the purpose was to let go of the old, and accept the new into one's life. I think it was in February or March, and I really have no idea where it originated or the name of it.

There's a lot more to celebrate and enjoy about life than just one religion's particular special days, which being an agnostic and not worried about what I think I'm "losing".

It matters because it is tradition. If you don't care if traditions change or die out, then it won't matter to you. But I feel that we should be allowed to keep at least some of our traditions. The other ethnic groups coming here are adamant about keeping theirs. Maybe the desire some of have to keep Christmas as a tradition is just a desire to avoid the straw that broke the camel's back that being abandoning everything that has been dear to us for many years.

Are we to be pressured to rename Thanksgiving too? Or Easter? If it doesn't make any difference, they why does it have to change? Will we at some future time take up wearing head coverings because our immigrants like them? Or give up our casual summer attire of shorts and halter tops? Will we someday ban certain foods from our supermarkets because other people find them offensive? Will we have to close our beer and liquor outlets?

If we give in on one thing it isn't long until we are pressured to give in on another. Like the old fable about the Arab and The Camel, we will someday be right out in the cold to make the newcomers more comfortable.

[kimmy]

I get it but seriously, what we really don't need more of? Attempts to reveal or discern some meaningful pattern amongst everything the OP has scattered about like some witch-doctor's chicken bones.

I think OP's question is entirely fair. What makes Syrian refugees a higher priority than people in other war-torn regions?

1. If refusing to accept Syrian refugees is discriminatory or racist, then isn't giving Syrian refugees express entry over the other 50-60 million refugees in the world discriminatory against all those other nationalities?

I think that Notca nailed part of it here:

This frenzy to bring in Syrian refugees en masse is an emotional response to the picture of the drowned little boy washed up on the beach. When people allow their emotions to do their thinking they develop tunnel vision and focus only on that one issue.

...but I think there is another issue at work. Western foreign policy places a higher priority on the Middle East than on Africa. The Middle East is usually front and center on the news for a variety of reasons-- our ongoing problems with terrorism and our dependence on Middle East oil being two of the most obvious. As well, our European allies are currently having problems with the sheer volume of Syrians (and non-Syrians...) trying to enter their countries, which has further raised the profile of the Syrian refugee situation.

As a result, the Syrian refugee situation is prominent in the public consciousness, whereas I suspect that most Canadians are only vaguely aware of any situations in Africa.

-k

[Topaz]

Isn't the point of helping these people is what Powell told to GW about Iraq..if u break it, uhave to fix it and since Canada is involved in the war over there we have to help those people? Many may not stay after the war is over, so some Canadians should have an open mind and put yourself in THEIR place.

[notca]

Isn't the point of helping these people is what Powell told to GW about Iraq..if u break it, uhave to fix it and since Canada is involved in the war over there we have to help those people? Many may not stay after the war is over, so some Canadians should have an open mind and put yourself in THEIR place.

Helping 'those people' does not necessarily mean bring them all over here. And there is no reason why being involved in a war anywhere means you have to help them. If they behaved themselves there wouldn't be a war in the first place so if they suffer from a war that we didn't start it is their responsibility to help themselves.

I don't want to be in their place, not even in my mind. But if Canada became the hell pit than Syria is I wouldn't consider running away and asking foreigners to help me. The numbers of Syrians who have stayed plus the numbers who have fled could make quite a considerable army to fight for their country.

And I wouldn't keep having babies in a country where they will have no safety and security. The sight of people putting little kids into those overloaded rafts makes me sick.

[On Guard for Thee]

Helping 'those people' does not necessarily mean bring them all over here. And there is no reason why being involved in a war anywhere means you have to help them. If they behaved themselves there wouldn't be a war in the first place so if they suffer from a war that we didn't start it is their responsibility to help themselves.

I don't want to be in their place, not even in my mind. But if Canada became the hell pit than Syria is I wouldn't consider running away and asking foreigners to help me. The numbers of Syrians who have stayed plus the numbers who have fled could make quite a considerable army to fight for their country.

And I wouldn't keep having babies in a country where they will have no safety and security. The sight of people putting little kids into those overloaded rafts makes me sick.

The people who aren't behaving themselves are the likes of the murderers Assad and ISIL, and I don't think we will be bringing any of them over here anytime soon. And btw if you look at current day ISIL and backtrack you find clear evidence that their emergence was caused by the illegal invasion of Iraq by the US in '03. (At least we had the good sense to stay out of that).And I suspect if you ever actually saw the hell pit that Syria has become you would be running as fast as anyone else to get out of it. A taste of reality can be a great cure for smugness.

[overthere]

Canada is supposed to be a secular country - Church and State separate.

Yes, you are one of many Canadians who incorrectly believe this. From the actual text of the Charter/Constitution, Part 1 first sentence:

Constitution Act, 1982: Document

Part I, Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms

Whereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law:

That sounds to me like Godbothering is far from separate.

[Michael Hardner]

Yes, you are one of many Canadians who incorrectly believe this. From the actual text of the Charter/Constitution, Part 1 first sentence:

That sounds to me like Godbothering is far from separate.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/const/page-15.html

You are right ... here's the cite.