eyeball Posted December 6, 2015 Report Posted December 6, 2015 There is no evidence whatsoever that anything Canada has done abroad has in any way, shape or form caused any refugees or economic hardships in that region. We've done our share. Our contribution to the problem is to mostly stand around with our moral thumbs up our butts while our allies do the dirty work. A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
eyeball Posted December 7, 2015 Report Posted December 7, 2015 When we talk about Nazi Germany, we tend to blanket all the germans as Nazis (and yes, we all do it). No we all really don't. That's why we're not all as freaked out and as you or as eager to blanket all muslims as being scary. A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Michael Hardner Posted December 7, 2015 Report Posted December 7, 2015 No we all really don't. I agree. I found that post surprising. My take on this only: I try my best to not judge people who have actually done things wrong in the past, and made amends... let alone judging people because they belong to a tribe that is associated with certain acts. Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
WestCoastRunner Posted December 7, 2015 Report Posted December 7, 2015 My grandmother was from Germany and no I don't call all Germans Nazis. I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
Argus Posted December 7, 2015 Report Posted December 7, 2015 Where was it documented? I did read about it in the Telegraph, but can't find it. However something similar was posted earlier on this thread. Canada’s refugees are being drawn from a pool of the poorest of the poor. Lacking higher education or easily transferable skill sets, and with scant English or French, they will require an immense amount of help and encouragement when they arrive on the other side of the pond. They will be in for a tough slog once they get their parkas, toques and galoshes on. http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/matthew-fisher-refugees-will-face-a-cultural-cliff-in-canada-and-canadians-will-be-tested-too And there is this from Germany. The polls by the Munich-based Ifo institute found that most companies thought the chances of employing refugees were low even in unskilled jobs. For more qualified posts, refugees’ employment chances were seen as substantially lower: 63 per cent of employers saw little chance of hiring refugees as trainees. For skilled jobs the figure rose to 78 per cent and for management roles 97 per cent. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/92d2b314-9434-11e5-b190-291e94b77c8f.html#axzz3tabJh8vg "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted December 7, 2015 Report Posted December 7, 2015 We've done our share. Our contribution to the problem is to mostly stand around with our moral thumbs up our butts while our allies do the dirty work. I see, so we're guilty by extension, even if we did nothing, because 'our allies' did something in your mind. Do we get credit by extension when our allies do something good? Seems to me we should get a lot of credit for fighting climate change since a lot of our allies are working hard on that. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
eyeball Posted December 7, 2015 Report Posted December 7, 2015 I think because the West felt it needed the stability Saudis represented, and because it needed their oil. It needs it much less now, and there isn't much stability to be had in that region. Even so, any replacement for the Saudi government would be worse. All internal opponents believe in an even more strict, more fundamentalist observation of Islam and Islamic law than the Saud family. The best we could hope to do is put pressure on them to stop funding schools, mosques and Islamic centers around the world. Christ, we could start by not letting them fund any in our own damned countries, which they do. David D. Aufhauser, a former Treasury Department general counsel, told a Senate committee in June 2004 that estimates went "north of $75 billion." The money financed the construction of thousands of mosques, schools and Islamic centers, the employment of at least 9,000 proselytizers and the printing of millions of books of religious instruction. According to a major investigation by Washington Post reporter David B. Ottaway published on August 19, 2004, the Saudi government's Ministry of Islamic Affairs, Endowment, Call and Guidance pays the salaries of 3,884 Wahhabi missionaries and preachers, who are six times as numerous as the 650 diplomats in Saudi Arabia's 77 embassies. http://dttj.blogspot.ca/2010/08/saudi-arabias-funding-of-american.html No matter which organizational connections (if any) ultimately prove to be real, one thing is clear: the fountainhead of Islamic extremism that promotes and legitimizes such violence lies with the fanatical "Wahhabi" strain of Islam centered in Saudi Arabia. And if the world wants to tamp down and eliminate such violent extremism, it must confront this primary host and facilitator. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-yousaf-butt-/saudi-wahhabism-islam-terrorism_b_6501916.html German Vice Chancellor Sigmar Gabriel on Sunday said Saudi Arabia must stop financing fundamentalist mosques abroad which are accused of breeding extremism. “From Saudi Arabia, Wahhabi mosques are financed throughout the world,” said Gabriel. “In Germany many extremists considered dangerous persons emerge from these communities,” he told the newspaper Bild am Sonntag http://tribune.com.pk/story/1004949/saudi-must-stop-financing-fundamentalist-mosques-abroad-merkels-deputy/ All those new Syrians in Germany? Where are they going to pray?! No fears, Saudi Arabia to the rescue. They have pledged to build 200 new mosques in Germany. http://www.ibtimes.com/amid-muslim-refugee-crisis-saudi-arabia-vows-build-200-mosques-germany-2090905 And don't think they aren't doing it in Canada too. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/saudi-government-funding-private-islamic-schools-in-canada-docs-show/article25223573/ And yet you are entirely oblivious to just how much your own rabid poisonous bile contributes to their aims. That's the scariest thing about the stance you present towards all this. A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
eyeball Posted December 7, 2015 Report Posted December 7, 2015 I see, so we're guilty by extension, even if we did nothing, because 'our allies' did something in your mind. Do we get credit by extension when our allies do something good? Seems to me we should get a lot of credit for fighting climate change since a lot of our allies are working hard on that.No, I think bad will undoes good will by too large a factor. Whatever credit we might have is miniscule in comparison...a fart in a sandstorm. A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Argus Posted December 7, 2015 Report Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) And yet you are entirely oblivious to just how much your own rabid poisonous bile contributes to their aims. Your delusions with regard to how my attitude causes thousands of Muslims to join terrorist groups is not my concern. Edited December 7, 2015 by Argus "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
eyeball Posted December 7, 2015 Report Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) I agree. I found that post surprising. My take on this only: I try my best to not judge people who have actually done things wrong in the past, and made amends... I have no problem judging people who have done things wrong in the past, and who refuse to make amends... I consider it a moral duty to get in the face of people who refuse to do that. And cue the moment some effing bonehead says they feel the same way about muslims and the 5th goddamn century. ...3...2...1... Edited December 7, 2015 by eyeball A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
eyeball Posted December 7, 2015 Report Posted December 7, 2015 Your delusions with regard to how my attitude causes thousands of Muslims to join terrorist groups is not my concern. Yes I can see that. A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Big Guy Posted December 7, 2015 Report Posted December 7, 2015 Yes I can see that. I can see some of these bright light anti Muslims, refugee experts working for one of these refugees in a few years - hat in hand wanting a job during the day and posting anonymous vile on bulletin boards at night. That would be justice! Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Guest Posted December 7, 2015 Report Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) I have no problem judging people who have done things wrong in the past, and who refuse to make amends... I consider it a moral duty to get in the face of people who refuse to do that. And cue the moment some effing bonehead says they feel the same way about muslims and the 5th goddamn century. ...3...2...1... Usually it's Christians and the 11th century or so, used by boneheads trying to excuse 21st Century Muslims. (Not all of them, of course. But then, I don't suppose all Christians were in favour of the Crusades) Edited December 7, 2015 by bcsapper
DogOnPorch Posted December 7, 2015 Report Posted December 7, 2015 Usually it's Christians and the 11th century or so, used by boneheads trying to excuse 21st Century Muslims. (Not all of them, of course. But then, I don't suppose all Christians were in favour of the Crusades) The Crusades via today's rose coloured glasses are a set of wars where the vile Crusader attacked the peaceful Muslim in his own homeland. Folks are willing to believe that and look no further. Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Argus Posted December 7, 2015 Report Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) The Crusades via today's rose coloured glasses are a set of wars where the vile Crusader attacked the peaceful Muslim in his own homeland. Folks are willing to believe that and look no further. Funny how the same poorly educated people never bring up the history of horrific Muslim aggression against their neighbours, and all the forced conversions and slaughters of unbelievers. Such attacks continued through history from the moment Islam came into being until they were no longer able to expand by force due to their backward educational, scientific, technological and organizational skills rendering them too weak to do so. When every smart person in your society studies Islam instead of engineering, math, finance or medicine, well, you're probably not going to keep up with others very well. Edited December 7, 2015 by Argus "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
DogOnPorch Posted December 8, 2015 Report Posted December 8, 2015 Funny how the same poorly educated people never bring up the history of horrific Muslim aggression against their neighbours, and all the forced conversions and slaughters of unbelievers. Such attacks continued through history from the moment Islam came into being until they were no longer able to expand by force due to their backward educational, scientific, technological and organizational skills rendering them too weak to do so. When every smart person in your society studies Islam instead of engineering, math, finance or medicine, well, you're probably not going to keep up with others very well. There are many myths we're supposed to swallow. The peaceful coexistence myth being one...Spain and such. Or using the Spanish Inquisition as a relative talking point to Islamic violence. More people (Jews) died in one night in the city of Granada...December 30th, 1066...at the hands of Muslims than were executed during the entire Inquisition (1478-1834). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1066_Granada_massacre Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Big Guy Posted December 8, 2015 Report Posted December 8, 2015 The Islamophobes on this board must be celebrating. Donald Trump has just declared that Muslims should not be allowed to immigrate into the USA! What does being an intellectual and philosophical bedmate and on the same side as Donal Trump tell you about you position? Good grief! Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Bryan Posted December 8, 2015 Report Posted December 8, 2015 Donald Trump has just declared that Muslims should not be allowed to immigrate into the USA! He's right. You know American politics is at a low point when Trump is the only adult in the room.
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 8, 2015 Report Posted December 8, 2015 He's right. You know American politics is at a low point when Trump is the only adult in the room. It wasn't that long ago when some members here wanted to ban all travel by people from parts of Africa because of Ebola. Economics trumps Virtue.
Smallc Posted December 8, 2015 Report Posted December 8, 2015 He's right. You know American politics is at a low point when Trump is the only adult in the room. It's a sad commentary of your own beliefs that you think he made an adult comment with that level of xenophobia.
Smallc Posted December 8, 2015 Report Posted December 8, 2015 It wasn't that long ago when some members here wanted to ban all travel by people from parts of Africa because of Ebola. Well, religion is like a disease, so I can see the connection.
GostHacked Posted December 8, 2015 Report Posted December 8, 2015 The Arab Spring was a homegrown response to government actions in Tunisia which then spread through the Arab world. You maybe right, however, we helped some nations crush said Arab Spring (Qatar, Bahrain) while we assisted the rise in other nations (Libya, Syria).
Bryan Posted December 8, 2015 Report Posted December 8, 2015 It's a sad commentary of your own beliefs that you think he made an adult comment with that level of xenophobia. There's nothing even remotely xenophobic about it. It's an informed, intelligent assessment of the situation.
Smallc Posted December 8, 2015 Report Posted December 8, 2015 There's nothing even remotely xenophobic about it. It's an informed, intelligent assessment of the situation. The risk of dying at the hand of a muslim is rather small. If we want to stay safe in Canada, we'd better deport all the aboriginal people...and married couples.
Bryan Posted December 8, 2015 Report Posted December 8, 2015 The risk of dying at the hand of a muslim is rather small. If we want to stay safe in Canada, we'd better deport all the aboriginal people...and married couples. Islam is an ideology that teaches its followers to kill, the others do not.
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