Rue Posted August 3, 2017 Report Posted August 3, 2017 9 hours ago, dialamah said: What? Pointing out that certain media only mentions domestic violence if it's perpetrated by a Muslim is advocating for covering up all domestic violence? Good grief. Sorry I just got to this. What media only singles out Muslim domestic violence and no other domestic violence? I think with due respect that may be your subjective impression.
Rue Posted August 3, 2017 Report Posted August 3, 2017 18 hours ago, jacee said: Zź Prejudice, like anti-Semitism. Islamophobia, anti-Muslim behaviour, is now the number one source of hate crimes and attacks in Canada. I note you stated this and a follow up to another poster who pointed out you were wrong. You said in follow up to the other poster the latest statistics showed the above. You then did not provide the statistics. With due respect Jacee you can't because they don't exist. I actually discussed this in the anti-semitism thread. Here for readers to see for themselves: http://www.cjnews.com/news/canada/jews-single-most-targeted-group-toronto-hate-crimes That said I don't like you or anyone turning hatred into a pissing contest as to who gets pissed on the most as if that justifies singling out certain hate over other hate. Hate is wrong, period. I believe the vital point the other poster was making and I have made is that when we discuss hatred, singling out one form of it as if its more important than other forms of hatred is wrong. As Jew I often see anti semites trivialize the holocaust by taking the word and applying it to other forms of massacre and hatred and saying its no different and why do Jews make a big deal about it. We teach the holocaust, that is to say we Jews with specific reference to righteous gentiles, and gentiles who died like Jehova's witnesses and &th Day Adventists and certain Christian democrats etc. We never say our pain is worse. We don't. We want to have people understand each of these events of hatred is unique and when we teach it we don't compare it to other slaughters as if they compete but as companion pieces. In the case of hate against Muslims, I think Trudeau and the Muslim MP pandered to Muslims and were dead wrong to single out Islamophobia the way they did. They lost respect from Muslims for doing that not just non Muslims. Muslims who are victims of crime have been represented and defended by B'nai B'rith precisely because it is hatred. Those Muslims did not claim to be more pained than Jews-they didn't even ask for our help but they felt good when we provided it. Hatred is hatred. No form of hatred is worse than another. I believe that was Dialamah's point about rape and it got lost in translation. I know her well enough to know she thinks all hatred is equally as bad and meant rape is rape, its a crime men of all cultures and religions engage in. We all agree on that. For this thread we are debating whether challenging specific Muslim values is hatred or legitimate criticism. Any criticism of Islam may hurt Muslims but it is a necessary part of democracy-challenging all extremist religious values. Someone tells me fundamentalist Orthodox Judaism is antiquated I don't consider that anti-Semitic. Why would I? It is. Christians often say that about the Amish or other sects, If its done with respect its part of discussion. With the exception of Taxme I don't think anyone else on this thread is being intentionally hateful with this issue although it can come across that way. Its a tough topic to discuss. So is anti-Semitism or anti-Christian discrimination or homophobia or sexism, etc. 1
OftenWrong Posted August 3, 2017 Report Posted August 3, 2017 17 hours ago, jacee said: My optics ... Tell you what: When Muslim women who wear traditional dress want your help ... they'll call you. More likely they'll shut up and hide, as many oppressed women do. 1
OftenWrong Posted August 4, 2017 Report Posted August 4, 2017 10 hours ago, dialamah said: Yes, indeed, because failing to express constant, hyperbolic criticism of anything and everything the news cares to feed us about Muslims means I support terrorists, misogyny, FGM, child-marriage, etc., etc. Clearly, the only reasonable choices is to hate Muslims indiscriminately or hate Canada/freedom/democracy. This is exactly what you do to others, those of us who do have clear issues with Muslim culture. You project it claim the person is some kind of mindless bigot. You have done that to me, and others here. So suck it up, buttercup. 1
jacee Posted August 4, 2017 Report Posted August 4, 2017 7 hours ago, capricorn said: I rarely read your shrill posts full of one-liners meant to insult members. Please provide more recent stats to back your claim that reported hate crimes against Muslims now surpass reported hate crimes against Jews. I can't find the shrill link I posted earlier with 2016 stats. You can see here the increase in anti-Muslim incidents to 2015, which doesn't include 2016's 6 murdered and 19 injured in Quebec, and a reported surge in incidents since then.
jacee Posted August 4, 2017 Report Posted August 4, 2017 5 hours ago, blackbird said: Are you misogynistic? How can you support a religious ideology which discriminates against women and welcome it into Canada? We either have freedom of religion in Canada, or we don't.
capricorn Posted August 4, 2017 Report Posted August 4, 2017 14 minutes ago, jacee said: I can't find the shrill link I posted earlier with 2016 stats. You can see here the increase in anti-Muslim incidents to 2015, which doesn't include 2016's 6 murdered and 19 injured in Quebec, and a reported surge in incidents since then. Where in those numbers does it show that reported hate crimes against Muslims is higher than reported hate crimes against Jews? You did, after all, claim that reported hate crimes against Muslims was the highest in all reported hate crimes. 1 "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
jacee Posted August 4, 2017 Report Posted August 4, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, capricorn said: Where in those numbers does it show that reported hate crimes against Muslims is higher than reported hate crimes against Jews? You did, after all, claim that reported hate crimes against Muslims was the highest in all reported hate crimes. I repeat: Quote I can't find the shrill link I posted earlier with 2016 stats. You can see here the increase in anti-Muslim incidents to 2015, which doesn't include 2016's 6 murdered and 19 injured in Quebec, and a reported surge in incidents since then. Edited August 4, 2017 by jacee
hot enough Posted August 4, 2017 Report Posted August 4, 2017 4 hours ago, OftenWrong said: You project it claim the person is some kind of mindless bigot. It mostly is mindless bigotry because it has only risen to the fore since and because of 911. It is as programmed a response as is the mindless "commie" boogeyman. The US has total control over all these simple minded people. And it is shown in spades here at MLW.
blackbird Posted August 4, 2017 Report Posted August 4, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, jacee said: We either have freedom of religion in Canada, or we don't. Are there limits to what freedom of religion can mean? Edited August 4, 2017 by blackbird
Rue Posted August 4, 2017 Report Posted August 4, 2017 (edited) 9 hours ago, jacee said: I repeat: You can't find the stats saying Muslims were targets of hatred more than Jews Jacee? That is crap. They don't exist. Your claiming you can't find them speaks loudly as to your credibility. So be it. Edited August 4, 2017 by Rue 1
Rue Posted August 4, 2017 Report Posted August 4, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, hot enough said: It mostly is mindless bigotry because it has only risen to the fore since and because of 911. It is as programmed a response as is the mindless "commie" boogeyman. The US has total control over all these simple minded people. And it is shown in spades here at MLW. Here this might help. http://candeobehaviorchange.com/3-keys-to-breaking-free-from-masturbation-addiction/ Edited August 4, 2017 by Rue
Rue Posted August 4, 2017 Report Posted August 4, 2017 10 hours ago, jacee said: We either have freedom of religion in Canada, or we don't. Your comment is illogical. None of us have absolute freedom. The very definition of life within our physical bodies and with other life forms inherently necessitates compromise or limits to our freedoms. Each action, each decision, each breath you take can impact negatively on someone else and therefore necessarily requires if you wish to be civilized to learn to repress certain components of your freedom meaning you demonstrate in your very breath you take you have a sliding scale of freedoms in your actions. Freedom is directly relevant to the environment you live in and what connections and resources available you have in that environment. You have turn the concept to a simplistic, rigid, inflexible black and white either or postulation with the two segregated and diametrically opposed values because ironically it projects outwards your bigoted thought processes which use rigid stereotypical terms of black or white which I can only assume save you the bother of having to decipher the never ending variations between the two extreme definitions you have. Whether that is intellectual laziness, a learning disability, lack of intelligence, or extremist bigoted thinking I leave to you. I just find it illogical or in layman's terms, insipid. I would contend in the real world there is a sliding scale of tolerance and freedoms that constantly adjusts depending on the situations we find ourselves in. It' s a dynamic process, i.e, its never rigid, it moves and mutates in form as its discussed and takes shape in expression depending as to how its measured and what its measured in relation to. For example when it comes to Revenue Canada telling me what tax I must pay I have little if any freedom. When it comes to exercising my rights under the Charter to freedom , I have much more freedom than citizens do in Iran Saudi Arabia, Russia, China or evidently in any discussion with you on Islamophobia. What you perceive as freedom could be another person's perception of oppression. You don't get to declare how the universe unfolded and what is and is not freedom of anything let alone freedom of religion for others. The world does not end or begin with your definitions,. Ironically the reason religions were started were to try remind humans that as individuals or as a collective we didn't create the universe so we don't get to dictate its rules. We are just a component in a greater scheme that interacts and is dependent on other forms of life as they are on us. We can learn to share and underdstand everything we do is a constant exercise in trying to find balance within a greater whole in a positive way or remain imbalanced in a negative way. I doubt you can understand a thing I said but I tried. Here let me put it in the simplest form possible-Jacee you are trying to hold Jello by placing it in your hand and holding tight. You need to find another way and please don't ask Hot Enough for help. He thinks the point at which steel melts is a solid concept.
Omni Posted August 4, 2017 Report Posted August 4, 2017 16 minutes ago, Rue said: the point at which steel melts is a solid concept. It actually is. Other than that you have verbiage. One question though, what forms of life do you suggest depend on us?
capricorn Posted August 4, 2017 Report Posted August 4, 2017 (edited) 12 hours ago, jacee said: I can't find the shrill link I posted earlier with 2016 stats. You can see here the increase in anti-Muslim incidents to 2015, which doesn't include 2016's 6 murdered and 19 injured in Quebec, and a reported surge in incidents since then. Look again at the link I posted in post # 5927. It is in fact a report dated June 13, 2017 but you tried to pass it off as 2011 data. Here I'll link it again. http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidien/170613/dq170613b-eng.htm Edited August 4, 2017 by capricorn "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
eyeball Posted August 4, 2017 Report Posted August 4, 2017 Judging by this thread Islamophobia is certainly not going away anytime soon. Oh well, its good for comic relief if nothing else. 1 A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
jacee Posted August 4, 2017 Report Posted August 4, 2017 9 hours ago, blackbird said: Are there limits to what freedom of religion can mean? Yes, it means freedom to practice one's religion, within the laws of Canada of course, and freedom from discrimination in employment, housing, etc. Good info here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_Canada
jacee Posted August 4, 2017 Report Posted August 4, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, capricorn said: Look again at the link I posted in post # 5927. It is in fact a report dated June 13, 2017 but you tried to pass it off as 2011 data. Here I'll link it again. http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidien/170613/dq170613b-eng.htm Report dated 2017, but that's the same 2015 StatsCan data I posted. Look, I'm sorry if it disturbs you that Jews 'lost the victim race' for the most hate crimes in Canada in 2016, due to the 6 Muslims murdered and 19 injured in Quebec in 2016. It's a close race. Maybe they'll pull ahead again in 2017. It's kind of inevitable, though, with millions of Muslims being driven out of the Middle East (by Israel and its allies) to western countries. Edited August 4, 2017 by jacee
capricorn Posted August 4, 2017 Report Posted August 4, 2017 (edited) 46 minutes ago, jacee said: Report dated 2017, but that's the same 2015 StatsCan data I posted. What this proves is that you don't open links posted by members who don't share your ideology and mindset. Yet, you expect posters of all opinions to look at your linked articles. Chalk up another reason why discussions with you are a waste of time. And in any case, I was talking to Hydra but you decided you wanted to butt in add your two cents. I add that cause I don't want to leave the impression that I engage you in debate. Edited August 4, 2017 by capricorn 1 "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
OftenWrong Posted August 4, 2017 Report Posted August 4, 2017 12 hours ago, hot enough said: It mostly is mindless bigotry because it has only risen to the fore since and because of 911. It is as programmed a response as is the mindless "commie" boogeyman. The US has total control over all these simple minded people. And it is shown in spades here at MLW. More off-topic nonsense from you, little one-trick pony. Cultural mysogyny extends back much further than 9/11. This is about Islamophobia in Canada, not the USA. 1
Rue Posted August 4, 2017 Report Posted August 4, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, Omni said: It actually is. Other than that you have verbiage. One question though, what forms of life do you suggest depend on us? cite: http://www.chabad.org/blogs/blog_cdo/aid/672377/jewish/Teaching-Kids-Not-to-Argue.htm "Remember: your goal is to teach your child how to be a pleasant person, not how to get what he wants. To this end, you can teach him the "I Don't Argue With You" Rule. It works like this: Your child makes a request You answer "yes" and that ends the conversation. Or, you answer "no" offering just a brief reason. End of Round One. Your child asks again. You say, "let me think about this" (for as long as you need to, considering the issue. Make sure you are comfortable with the answer you choose). Then you change your mind if you wish to (this is the ONLY place in the conversation that you can do this) and you now say "yes." Or, you reiterate, "No." You have the option of adding the phrase, "And that's the end of the conversation." End of Round Two and End of Your Part of the Conversation. Start doing something else. Your child continues to make new, interesting points building his argument for his side. Each sentence is a new Round. He follows you around, dramatically pleading his case. You do not respond to him. If this routine happens every time your child makes a request, he or she will soon learn that you will give the matter serious attention and thought, come up with an answer, reflect upon it if necessary and THAT's IT. The child will learn that there is no point in harassing you further because it won't make any difference at all." 1 hour ago, jacee said: Report dated 2017, but that's the same 2015 StatsCan data I posted. for the most hate crimes in Canada in 2016, due to the 6 Muslims murdered and 19 injured in Quebec in 2016. It's a close race. Maybe they'll pull ahead again in 2017. It's kind of inevitable, though, with millions of Muslims being driven out of the Middle East (by Israel and its allies) to western countries. Your words, " Look, I'm sorry if it disturbs you that Jews 'lost the victim race' " reflect your ignorant hateful words towards Jews and your own ignorant framing of hate actions as something to measure in a pissing contest to suggest one form of hatred should take more priority over others. Your ignorance speaks loudly. Listen up, hard as it is for you to let go of the anti semitic concept, we Jews are not a race. Save it for your other audience but thanks for showing what's underneath the posing as a liberal-a miserable bigot. Here are the 2016 statistics you know exist but won't produce showing you are a liar: https://torontopolice.on.ca/publications/files/reports/2016hatecrimereport.pdf Here is the pathetic agenda you engage in: http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/2016/08/05/4514098.htm Edited August 4, 2017 by Rue
GostHacked Posted August 4, 2017 Report Posted August 4, 2017 18 hours ago, Rue said: Religion is the leading cause of loss of vision not glaucoma or diabetes.. Does that mean all religions?
Rue Posted August 4, 2017 Report Posted August 4, 2017 4 minutes ago, GostHacked said: Does that mean all religions? cite: http://www.chabad.org/blogs/blog_cdo/aid/672377/jewish/Teaching-Kids-Not-to-Argue.htm "Remember: your goal is to teach your child how to be a pleasant person, not how to get what he wants. To this end, you can teach him the "I Don't Argue With You" Rule. It works like this: Your child makes a request You answer "yes" and that ends the conversation. Or, you answer "no" offering just a brief reason. End of Round One. Your child asks again. You say, "let me think about this" (for as long as you need to, considering the issue. Make sure you are comfortable with the answer you choose). Then you change your mind if you wish to (this is the ONLY place in the conversation that you can do this) and you now say "yes." Or, you reiterate, "No." You have the option of adding the phrase, "And that's the end of the conversation." End of Round Two and End of Your Part of the Conversation. Start doing something else. Your child continues to make new, interesting points building his argument for his side. Each sentence is a new Round. He follows you around, dramatically pleading his case. You do not respond to him.
Omni Posted August 4, 2017 Report Posted August 4, 2017 24 minutes ago, Rue said: Remember: your goal is to teach your child how to be a pleasant person Another lengthy screed but what does all that have to do with what I asked you?
Rue Posted August 4, 2017 Report Posted August 4, 2017 5 hours ago, eyeball said: Judging by this thread Islamophobia is certainly not going away anytime soon. Oh well, its good for comic relief if nothing else. The above is an example of the phenomena known as the "Downing Effect". http://www.drtomascp.com/uploads/PersonalityIntelligence_I"JSA_2005.pdf "There’s a description of a phenomenon that’s out there known as the Downing Effect which states that the lower a person’s IQ is, the more likely they are to think they have a higher IQ than average. As an example, someone with a 90 IQ might think they have a 120 IQ or someone with a 100 IQ might think they have a 140 IQ. " Its also described as the Dunning-Kruger Effect. "...readable academic article I’ve encountered1, which empirically shows how stupid people overestimate their own abilities and smart people underestimate their own abilities. This has been named the Dunning-Kruger Effect, after the authors, though I prefer to call it the Idiot-Genius Confidence Reversal,2 because it results in idiots having more confidence than warranted and geniuses having less. In their experiments, Dunning and Kruger showed how this disconnect between perception and reality manifests across a wide range of areas, including humor3, logical reasoning, and grammar." source:https://maoryc.com/2015/12/23/biweekly-bias-the-idiot-genius-confidence-reversal/
Recommended Posts