Omni Posted May 4, 2017 Report Posted May 4, 2017 7 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: You're free to believe the Liberal Party's version of events. I'll stick with the actual police report thanks. You should try reading it sometime.
DogOnPorch Posted May 4, 2017 Report Posted May 4, 2017 22 minutes ago, Omni said: I'll stick with the actual police report thanks. You should try reading it sometime. The police reports that changed as time wet by? Those police reports? I know the first thing I'd do as a cop on the scene is arrest all those giving first aid. It's what cops do...right? Of course right as you agree with the Liberal Party's version of events. Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Omni Posted May 4, 2017 Report Posted May 4, 2017 11 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: The police reports that changed as time wet by? Those police reports? I know the first thing I'd do as a cop on the scene is arrest all those giving first aid. It's what cops do...right? Of course right as you agree with the Liberal Party's version of events. I have no idea what your so called Liberal version is, but as I say, the police one is quite clear.
DogOnPorch Posted May 4, 2017 Report Posted May 4, 2017 Just now, Omni said: I have no idea what your so called Liberal version is, but as I say, the police one is quite clear. The police reports that changed as time went by? Those police reports?? It's a big lie. The bigger the lie the better. Right Mr Goebbels? Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Omni Posted May 4, 2017 Report Posted May 4, 2017 1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said: The police reports that changed as time went by? Those police reports?? It's a big lie. The bigger the lie the better. Right Mr Goebbels? I know, you like the little conspiracy theory game. Enjoy.
Argus Posted May 4, 2017 Report Posted May 4, 2017 19 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: Two different questions. I don't know why leftists condemn it. I think it's more mainstream than you think to accept this religion. Not just left wing politicans. Here's what I'd like to ask those politicians. Do you embrace extreme homophobia and misogyny? Because you can't embrace Islam without embracing those, as well. If you respect Islam then you respect that women are inferior and gays must die. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Michael Hardner Posted May 4, 2017 Report Posted May 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, Argus said: Do you embrace extreme homophobia and misogyny? Because you can't embrace Islam without embracing those, as well. I hear people say this about other religions as well. I don't believe it, and most don't - especially religious people of all denominations. Everyone has to interpret things themselves. Separation of state and religion is a key value in Canada, which likely gets a lot of people behind protecting all faiths. Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Argus Posted May 4, 2017 Report Posted May 4, 2017 2 hours ago, carepov said: I also dislike Islamism (aka Political Islam or Islamic fundamentalism). Definition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamism We should not judge individuals by their religion and for most Muslim-Canadians Islam is just that – a religion. I wish I were as easily convinced of that as you are. As far as I'm concerned the fact increasing numbers of Muslim Canadian women, now more than half, feel that they must wear head coverings, or even full face coverings indicates a much stronger belief in the dictates of political Islam. The need for women to cover up goes hand in hand with the belief in the moral failings and inferiority of women, which is supported by Sharia laws which allow women to be beaten, which discard their value in testimony in trials, and which require active discrimination against them. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted May 4, 2017 Report Posted May 4, 2017 2 hours ago, Omni said: The ones who don't want to come to democratic countries. So Muslims like the Khadrs are the moderates? "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Omni Posted May 4, 2017 Report Posted May 4, 2017 5 minutes ago, Argus said: So Muslims like the Khadrs are the moderates? He was BORN in a Democratic country.
Argus Posted May 4, 2017 Report Posted May 4, 2017 Just now, Omni said: He was BORN in a Democratic country. His parents immigrated to Canada. Are they moderate Muslims? "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Omni Posted May 4, 2017 Report Posted May 4, 2017 11 minutes ago, Argus said: His parents immigrated to Canada. Are they moderate Muslims? Are they the majority?
carepov Posted May 4, 2017 Report Posted May 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Argus said: I wish I were as easily convinced of that as you are. As far as I'm concerned the fact increasing numbers of Muslim Canadian women, now more than half, feel that they must wear head coverings, or even full face coverings indicates a much stronger belief in the dictates of political Islam. The need for women to cover up goes hand in hand with the belief in the moral failings and inferiority of women, which is supported by Sharia laws which allow women to be beaten, which discard their value in testimony in trials, and which require active discrimination against them. First - I do not agree that you can judge one's political beliefs based on their clothing. Second - I reject the notion that Muslim Canadian women feel that they must wear head coverings. I bet that most women freely choose to wear the hijab - some probably wear it to piss off their parents, some probably wear it only on special occasions.
Goddess Posted May 4, 2017 Report Posted May 4, 2017 (edited) 11 minutes ago, carepov said: I bet that most women freely choose to wear the hijab If my choice was the same as many women from Muslim countries - "Wear the hijab or be beaten/stoned or never leave the house" then yes, I would "freely" wear it too. Have you ever wondered why a woman would "freely" choose to give herself vitamin D deficiency, alopecia, never feel the breeze or sun on her face, restrict her movements and ability to hear, wear an outward sign of being an inferior human, etc.? There may be more women who "freely" wear it in Western countries, even Muslims themselves admit it is more of a political statement. And there have been honour killings in many Western countries doled out to disobedient girls who refuse to wear it. The fact that so many women are forced to wear it under threat of beatings and death....that alone would make me refuse if I lived in a Western country - unless I totally agreed with the political implications of it and accepted my inferior role as destined by Allah. Edited May 4, 2017 by Goddess "There are two different types of people in the world - those who want to know and those who want to believe." ~~ Friedrich Nietzsche ~~
Argus Posted May 4, 2017 Report Posted May 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Omni said: Are they the majority? I don't know. Your point was the zealots don't come to Canada. I was demonstrating how nonsensical that belief was. Obviously it went over your head. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Omni Posted May 4, 2017 Report Posted May 4, 2017 13 minutes ago, carepov said: First - I do not agree that you can judge one's political beliefs based on their clothing. Second - I reject the notion that Muslim Canadian women feel that they must wear head coverings. I bet that most women freely choose to wear the hijab - some probably wear it to piss off their parents, some probably wear it only on special occasions. Surveys done in Canada just after the last federal election confirm your Second thoughts. Some TV interviews I saw with Muslim women had them explaining they wore their hijabs as a sense of pride. Some were with their husbands, who when asked, claimed they didn't really want their wives bother since they didn't there is certainly no pressure to do so in this country, but it was the wife's choice. Seems to me that the notion that women here wear a covering under threat of violence comes more from their xenophobia than fact.
Argus Posted May 4, 2017 Report Posted May 4, 2017 28 minutes ago, carepov said: First - I do not agree that you can judge one's political beliefs based on their clothing. When the clothing is a proclamation of their political beliefs I think we pretty much can. 28 minutes ago, carepov said: Second - I reject the notion that Muslim Canadian women feel that they must wear head coverings. I bet that most women freely choose to wear the hijab - some probably wear it to piss off their parents, some probably wear it only on special occasions. You bet, do you? Based on what evidence? Wearing this stuff every day everywhere you go is a proclamation of seperateness from society and peers. It's not something done lightly. I think you, like so many other secular westerners simply cannot wrap your mind around the concept that people who are devoted to a religion might actually believe what the religion stands for, including its moral rules and laws. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
carepov Posted May 4, 2017 Report Posted May 4, 2017 19 minutes ago, Goddess said: If my choice was the same as many women from Muslim countries - "Wear the hijab or be beaten/stoned or never leave the house" then yes, I would "freely" wear it too. Have you ever wondered why a woman would "freely" choose to give herself vitamin D deficiency, alopecia, never feel the breeze or sun on her face, restrict her movements and ability to hear, wear an outward sign of being an inferior human, etc.? There may be more women who "freely" wear it in Western countries, even Muslims themselves admit it is more of a political statement. And there have been honour killings in many Western countries doled out to disobedient girls who refuse to wear it. The fact that so many women are forced to wear it under threat of beatings and death....that alone would make me refuse if I lived in a Western country - unless I totally agreed with the political implications of it and accepted my inferior role as destined by Allah. You quoted me out of context. I was clearly referring to Muslim Canadian women. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/baraah-zahran/is-hijab-an-obstacle-_b_9355880.html
Omni Posted May 4, 2017 Report Posted May 4, 2017 4 minutes ago, Argus said: I don't know. Your point was the zealots don't come to Canada. I was demonstrating how nonsensical that belief was. Obviously it went over your head. My point was that you will use any example you can find, such as the Khadr family, to try and smear every Muslim immigrant that has or might enter this country. I guess that went over your head.
Argus Posted May 4, 2017 Report Posted May 4, 2017 4 minutes ago, Omni said: Surveys done in Canada just after the last federal election confirm your Second thoughts. Cite? 4 minutes ago, Omni said: Some TV interviews I saw with Muslim women had them explaining they wore their hijabs as a sense of pride. Pride in Islam. Not pride in Canada. 4 minutes ago, Omni said: Some were with their husbands, who when asked, claimed they didn't really want their wives bother since they didn't there is certainly no pressure to do so in this country, but it was the wife's choice. Seems to me that the notion that women here wear a covering under threat of violence comes more from their xenophobia than fact. Seems to me that Islamophiles will do anything to explain away their devotion to a political system which calls for the death of gays and Jews and treats women as second class citizens. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted May 4, 2017 Report Posted May 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, Omni said: My point was that you will use any example you can find, such as the Khadr family, to try and smear every Muslim immigrant that has or might enter this country. I guess that went over your head. Really? Because you weren't actually talking to me. DOP asked which Muslims were Islamists and you said, and I quote "The ones who don't want to come to democratic countries." So I point out how stupid that is and now you're furiously backtracking instead of admitting how wrong you are. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Omni Posted May 4, 2017 Report Posted May 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, Argus said: Pride in Islam. Not pride in Canada. Something like a Christian wearing a cross. 3 minutes ago, Argus said: Seems to me that Islamophiles will do anything to explain away their devotion to a political system which calls for the death of gays and Jews and treats women as second class citizens. And that just confirms my last statement.
Argus Posted May 4, 2017 Report Posted May 4, 2017 Just now, Omni said: Something like a Christian wearing a cross. A cross is nothing but a piece of jewelery, mostly worn out of sight. It doesn't get in the way or hide you from the sun. And it doesn't set you aside from other Canadians. Just now, Omni said: And that just confirms my last statement. Nothing you've ever written has ever been able to confirm your prejudices. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Omni Posted May 4, 2017 Report Posted May 4, 2017 Just now, Argus said: A cross is nothing but a piece of jewelery, mostly worn out of sight. It doesn't get in the way or hide you from the sun. And it doesn't set you aside from other Canadians. Nothing you've ever written has ever been able to confirm your prejudices. Most of what you write certainly confirms yours.
carepov Posted May 4, 2017 Report Posted May 4, 2017 1 minute ago, Argus said: When the clothing is a proclamation of their political beliefs I think we pretty much can. Islam in Canada is just a religion it is not a political movement. 1 minute ago, Argus said: You bet, do you? Based on what evidence? Wearing this stuff every day everywhere you go is a proclamation of seperateness from society and peers. It's not something done lightly. I think you, like so many other secular westerners simply cannot wrap your mind around the concept that people who are devoted to a religion might actually believe what the religion stands for, including its moral rules and laws. First, who says "every day"? There are many reasons for Canadian Muslim women choose to wear the hijab. You are the one that started the claim about Canadian women being forced to wear head coverings. The burden of proof is on you. I understand that people are devoted to Islam but in in Canada, Muslims do not stand for Islamism. Do you judge people's political beliefs based on their tattoos and piercings too?
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