Islamophobia in Canada

[Guest]

Just now, Zul-Fiqar786 said:

Hitting your wife doesn't mean sending her to the hospital, only expressing your displeasure with bad behavior, similar to how parents should have the right to spank their kids when the latter need disciplining. In a traditional family, the husband is in charge and the head, his wife is expected to follow his lead and support him. Destroying the traditional family has resulted in all the social problems we see today.

Who is this really...? 

[Moonlight Graham]

1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

Who is this really...? 

LOL

[dialamah]

21 hours ago, Goddess said:

 

But I wouldn't say that promoting the idea that women must be covered completely or partially at all times, making women sit at the back and use side entrances, vocally speaking out about  hatred of Jews, demanding their own enclaves that are run by Sharia law and exclude non-Muslims and refusing to associate with infidels..... would be "practices in line with Canadian culture."

I don't like those practices either.   Pretending for a moment that we don't allow any more Muslims into Canada, what what do you suggest we do about the ones like that who are already here?   You have once said you are about solutions, so do you have a solution for this problem?

 

Quote

I don't see much of a difference between someone who actually kills their daughter or wife in an honour killing, and someone who says, "I'd love to be able to kill my wife or daughter, but unfortuneately the law here doesn't allow it."

Do laws actually stop people who really want do so something illegal?   If honor killing were such a pervading cultural practice of Muslims in Canada, wouldn't we be having a whole lot more of them, given the million Muslims we already have living here?    (Asking this question in no way implies I think Muslims in general are universally law-abiding paragons of virtue).

There are female-led mosques in China, the Netherlands and the UK.   There is an LGBT-inclusive mosque in Toronto.   I would expect those truly concerned about the plight of female and gays in Islam to support and celebrate what Muslims can do in Western countries, and how they can influence similar reform in Muslim-majority countries, rather than focusing on how unacceptable Islam and Muslims are to Western culture.    (Saying this no way implies I think every Muslim in the world is just waiting for their chance to become "progressive" or that there aren't serious issues within Islam.)

 

 

 

 

[dialamah]

10 hours ago, Zul-Fiqar786 said:

Hitting your wife doesn't mean sending her to the hospital, only expressing your displeasure with bad behavior, similar to how parents should have the right to spank their kids when the latter need disciplining. In a traditional family, the husband is in charge and the head, his wife is expected to follow his lead and support him. Destroying the traditional family has resulted in all the social problems we see today.

Stuff like this is why anti-Muslim sentiment is growing in Western countries.   

[DogOnPorch]

Islam is the West's historical sworn enemy and peace was NEVER declared except unilaterally by the West who felt that since it is the 21st century, Islam couldn't possibly still be stuck in the 7th.

 

[DogOnPorch]

Wrong.

[jacee]

1 minute ago, dialamah said:

Stuff like this is why anti-Muslim sentiment is growing in Western countries.   

Stuff like this may be anti-Muslim trolling.

[dialamah]

17 hours ago, Argus said:

 

Also, the immigrants we're taking in now are much more conservative and religious than back then. If you went back to Iran or Egypt or Lebanon in 1971 or 1981 you'd find very few women wearing Hijabs, let alone covering their faces. Now the great majority of women do, and the numbers increase each year - as they do in Canada. The Saudi influence has been growing in the Muslim world for decades.

Don't have time to answer everything, but this is something that concerns me, too.   I wish, as a country and throughout the world, that we had the balls and integrity to shun SA and it's Wahhabism.   

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, jacee said:

Stuff like this may be anti-Muslim trolling.

 

You hope...at all our peril. 

 

[DogOnPorch]

2 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Don't have time to answer everything, but this is something that concerns me, too.   I wish, as a country and throughout the world, that we had the balls and integrity to shun SA and it's Wahhabism.   

 

Where SHOULD we look to in order to see Islam practiced properly as Mohammad intended?

[DogOnPorch]

If not Islam's birthplace....

[dialamah]

Just now, jacee said:

Stuff like this may be anti-Muslim trolling.

True, and I thought of that.  Try linking to what he calls his 'religious blog' at www.salvation-from-hell.com and see what you think.  Perhaps we're being pranked, and this isn't his blog.   Or perhaps not.  

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, dialamah said:

True, and I thought of that.  Try linking to what he calls his 'religious blog' at www.salvation-from-hell.com and see what you think.  Perhaps we're being pranked, and this isn't his blog.   Or perhaps not.  

 

It's just HAS to be a prank....

So where can we see the REAL Islam @ work?

Don't say Canada...

[dialamah]

5 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

It's just HAS to be a prank....

So where can we see the REAL Islam @ work?

Don't say Canada...

Perhaps this is your alter-ego and your blog, eh, Mr Islamic Scholar?   It certainly looks like some of the stuff you have posted here ...

 

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, dialamah said:

Perhaps this is your alter-ego and your blog, eh, Mr Islamic Scholar?   It certainly looks like some of the stuff you have posted here ...

 

 

You had better hope that's true.

That I invented Islam...

[Zul-Fiqar786]

34 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Stuff like this is why anti-Muslim sentiment is growing in Western countries.   

Anti-Muslim sentiment doesn't concern me. Be as anti-Muslim as you want, you can't do anything to us. Our community is young and growing, while the anti-Muslim bigots are a bunch of old white rednecks that will soon die off, and good riddance to them.

[drummindiver]

On 10/09/2017 at 5:07 PM, dialamah said:

 

While Islam may offer the worst examples of misogyny and oppressive practices in the Middle East, it's also true that many of those practices are shared by non-Muslims.  This is why I, personally, prefer to consider them cultural and not specifically Islamic.   

"Islam may offer the worst example".

How is this then "not specifically Islamic" ?

[drummindiver]

22 hours ago, Argus said:

 

Also, the immigrants we're taking in now are much more conservative and religious than back then. If you went back to Iran or Egypt or Lebanon in 1971 or 1981 you'd find very few women wearing Hijabs, let alone covering their faces. Now the great majority of women do, and the numbers increase each year - as they do in Canada. The Saudi influence has been growing in the Muslim world for decades.

Also the embracing of Sayd Qtbah's Milestones.

[Goddess]

On 9/10/2017 at 2:07 PM, dialamah said:

 

While Islam may offer the worst examples of misogyny and oppressive practices in the Middle East, it's also true that many of those practices are shared by non-Muslims.  This is why I, personally, prefer to consider them cultural and not specifically Islamic.   

While there may be variations in how different cultures interpret Islam's beliefs - for instance, the many variations of things women must wear to cover themselves - the underlying beliefs are "specifically Islamic" - women MUST be covered.  The belief that women are second class citizens who must be disciplined and controlled by men, is the Islamic belief that inspires the cultural variations.

The cultures don't inspire the religion.  It's the religion that inspires the cultures to adopt Islamic beliefs.  And with no failsafes in Islam to stop rabid interpretations......you don't get to claim that culture is to blame for how the religion is interpreted by its followers.  Denigration of women is intrinsic to Islam.  That different cultures impose different methods to denigrate women, does not change the fact that they get this idea from  and have the blessing of Islam to do so in the first place.

 

[dialamah]

1 minute ago, Goddess said:

the underlying beliefs are "specifically Islamic" - women MUST be covered.  The belief that women are second class citizens who must be disciplined and controlled by men, is the Islamic belief that inspires the cultural variations.

If you are trying to say that Islam created the culture, I will say you are wrong.  Islamic belief is largely based on early Christian and Jewish practices, many of which came from the surrounding cultures, including early pagan cultures.  That is why some of the practices, an example being FGM, are practiced outside of Islam, by other religions in the area, including Christians.   

 

[Goddess]

4 minutes ago, dialamah said:

If you are trying to say that Islam created the culture, I will say you are wrong.  Islamic belief is largely based on early Christian and Jewish practices, many of which came from the surrounding cultures, including early pagan cultures.  That is why some of the practices, an example being FGM, are practiced outside of Islam, by other religions in the area, including Christians.   

 

These things are not practiced in other religions/cultures to the extent they are in Islam.  Your example of FGM being practiced in Christianity - for that I would say yes, it is cultural when certain Christians practice it.  But it is not cultural when Islam practices it because it has been adopted as an Islamic belief.   I would concede that FGM is not a mainstream Islamic belief but it is mainstream enough that most people associate it with Islam and most people who practice it, practice it in the name of Islam.  Whenever it makes the news in Western countries -such as recently in Detroit - it is not Christians, but Muslims practicing it and bringing it to Western countries.

[dialamah]

So the exact same practice in the exact same part of the world is cultural if practiced by non-Muslims and religious if practiced by Muslims?  

From An Overview of FGM in Nigeria.

Practice of FGM has no relationship with religion. Muslims and Christians practice it, but it is more widely spread in Christian predominated parts of Nigeria.[2]

And you wonder why I think you are biased in your view of Islam and choose to believe the worst regardless of the evidence.

[dialamah]

15 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Whenever it makes the news in Western countries -such as recently in Detroit - it is not Christians, but Muslims practicing it and bringing it to Western countries.

A Christian doctor performs FGM on a girl, in America, to cure masturbation.

FGM is not my shame, it is my story. I witnessed Christian religions declaring masturbation a sin, “some Christian leaders and doctors” recommending circumcision to prevent it, 

Pretending stuff like this is just an Islamic problem is a mistake.  Its just an excuse to hate.

[Goddess]

Are we talking about just a certain country or are we talking about the overall practice of FGM and who practices it?

I was talking about the belief and practice of it in general.

Are you saying that FGM is practiced predominantly by Christians worldwide?

[Goddess]

Just now, dialamah said:

A Christian doctor performs FGM on a girl, in America, to cure masturbation.

FGM is not my shame, it is my story. I witnessed Christian religions declaring masturbation a sin, “some Christian leaders and doctors” recommending circumcision to prevent it, 

Pretending stuff like this is just an Islamic problem is a mistake.  Its just an excuse to hate.

Again, you take a one off case and try to make it seem like FGM is practiced and believed in by mainly Christians worldwide.  

It is the scope and extent of it in Islam that concerns me.  It doesn't have that same scope and extent in Christianity.