Paris Terrorist Attacks

[Smallc]

Rational. I think that would be a great idea. When do we start?

By not letting in 25000 people in a hell of a hurry.

[ReeferMadness]

By not letting in 25000 people in a hell of a hurry.

Because the 9/11 attackers were all refugees? Because the 2 people who killed soldiers last year were refugees? Because the hapless bunch of deluded drug addicts, mentally ill or misguided losers who are in Canadian prisons for terror offenses were all refugees?

Germany. Turkey. Greece. Jordan. Places that are chock-a-block with refugees right now. You should alert them so they can all panic.

I know this is a novel idea today but how about we take a deep breath until we have some actual information about what happened today?

Edited November 14, 2015 by ReeferMadness

[Smallc]

Because the 9/11 attackers were all refugees? Because the 2 people who killed soldiers last year were refugees? Because the hapless bunch of deluded drug addicts, mentally ill or misguided losers who are in Canadian prisons for terror offenses were all refugees?

Probably because the refugees are coming from a place where a major terrorist incident is ongoing. That's just me looking at a map though.

And Turkey was probably a bad example.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Smallc

[ReeferMadness]

Probably because the refugees are coming from a place where a major terrorist incident is ongoing. That's just me looking at a map though.

And Turkey was probably a bad example.

We're getting refugees from Paris?

[Smallc]

We're getting refugees from Paris?

There is a constant major terrorist event ongoing in Syria and Iraq.

[Moonlight Graham]

Because if even 0.1% of the people we bring over end up being terrorists rather than refugees, that's enough to do in Canada what just happened in Paris. And you can bet organizations like Al-Qaeda and ISIS are doing whatever they can to get as many of their operatives as possible into various Western countries. And setting artificial time limits like "by the end of the year" for 25,000 people clearly means that there will not be sufficient time to properly investigate the background of each individual to minimize the chance of terrorists slipping through.

Bob the Canadian grew up in Canada, then at age 25 Bob moved to China for work. Then China started bombing Canada relentlessly because Canada wanted to nationalize its oil sands and kick out Chinese oil contracting companies. Then China sent in some ground troops to invade Canada and kill PM Trudeau and install a puppet government, and then tortured some Canadian soldiers. Then China started taking most of Canada's oil using Chinese contractors. Then China sold billions in weapons to Canada's neighbours to keep Canada in line. Canada then thought it might be a good idea to build a nuclear bomb to protect itself, but China thought this was evil so China invaded Canada again and bombed some other stuff. Most of the Chinese people supported virtually everything their government was doing to Canada. All of this made Bob really mad, so Bob put a bomb near China's defense ministry building and blew some Chinese people up.

China could ban all Canadians from immigrating to China, but is Bob the real problem or is Chinese foreign policy?

[-1=e^ipi]

Thin veneer of legitimacy without a UN resolution. This is not your father's (Cold War) NATO.

Maybe we should rethink membership of the UN given that it's controlled largely by the Islamic voting block and has Saudi Arabia as the head of the Human Rights Commission.

So what is so special about Syria ???

Islamism.

[Bonam]

Bob the Canadian grew up in Canada, then at age 25 Bob moved to China for work. Then China started bombing Canada relentlessly because Canada wanted to nationalize its oil sands and kick out Chinese oil contracting companies. Then China sent in some ground troops to invade Canada and kill PM Trudeau and install a puppet government, and then tortured some Canadian soldiers. Then China started taking most of Canada's oil using Chinese contractors. Then China sold billions in weapons to Canada's neighbours to keep Canada in line. Canada then thought it might be a good idea to build a nuclear bomb to protect itself, but China thought this was evil so China invaded Canada again and bombed some other stuff. Most of the Chinese people supported virtually everything their government was doing to Canada. All of this made Bob really mad, so Bob put a bomb near China's defense ministry building and blew some Chinese people up.

China could ban all Canadians from immigrating to China, but is Bob the real problem or is Chinese foreign policy?

The "real problem" in this example may be the hypothetical "Chinese foreign policy", but it still remains true in this case that it would be in the interest of Chinese citizens if China's government kept people like Bob out of China, since people like Bob may pose a danger.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Bonam

[Moonlight Graham]

The "real problem" in this example may be the hypothetical "Chinese foreign policy", but it still remains true in this case that it would be in the interest of Chinese citizens if China's government kept people like Bob out of China.

Yes I agree.

[BC_chick]

Moonlight Graham, your posts in this thread hit the nail on the head every single time.

You say everything I want to say but much more eloquently.

Kudos.

[BC_chick]

Yes I agree.

Spoke too soon.

[BC_chick]

The "real problem" in this example may be the hypothetical "Chinese foreign policy", but it still remains true in this case that it would be in the interest of Chinese citizens if China's government kept people like Bob out of China, since people like Bob may pose a danger.

I think having quotas by tight timelines is not a good idea bu the bigger issue is definitely the foreign policy.

Without all the meddling there would be no refugees to begin with.

[Bonam]

I think having quotas by tight timelines is not a good idea bu the bigger issue is definitely the foreign policy.

Without all the meddling there would be no refugees to begin with.

I agree that Western intervention contributed to the current situation. It's hard to know how the world would have turned out in an alternative history without said intervention.. it could have been better, or it could have been worse. But regardless of that, I think that the first and foremost function of any nation's government is to ensure the safety of its own citizens. In that light, I think anyone we bring over as a refugee needs to be given time to be properly background checked. In the meanwhile, if we want to aid the refugees, we can provide aid to them in the locations where they currently are.

[hitops]

Boy I cannot wait for those 25000 Syrian immigrants. Muslim immigration is just working out so well for those enlightened European democracies! Just like it was predicted - you just help them out, removed them from the bad situation, and like magic, they change. Amazing hey? Working great.

Well I guess I have to admit we should think of them just like we think of the boat people - cause you know all those killings the boat people are known for......oh wait, they aren't?

Oh wait, I know, I know! It is because they are coming from such violent circumstances. Ya that's it. You can't assume they will cause problems......it is due to the bad psychology of coming from a violent place. Ah yes! That explains why the vietnamese played nice...because they came from such a place of sunshine and rainb....errr.....eh....ok I'll get back to you on that.....

Ok finally got it. It's religion! Region is the problem. I mean just the other day I was thinking of the time that Buddhist Monks, Rastafarians, Shinto devotees, Christians and Jews formed terror groups and performed bombings in the name of their faith in major western cities......ehhh.....ok....no really....ummmm ok never mind.

[hitops]

I think having quotas by tight timelines is not a good idea bu the bigger issue is definitely the foreign policy.

Without all the meddling there would be no refugees to begin with.

Oh for sure, when the west meddles with their military it never works out. I mean just think about those hellholes Germany, Italy and Japan! Just awful. The long term destruction of a people.....when will we learn? When, I ask you?

The west should leave everyone alone. It's obvious. We have virtually no involvement in Somalia, and that place is doing great.

To fully prove the point, look no further than the nation the US has involved itself with more than any other on earth. The unliveable wasteland known as Canada. If only they would leave us alone!

Edited November 14, 2015 by hitops

[eyeball]

So there is nothing worth putting yourself in harms way?

Sure there is, as I've suggested we do.

[ReeferMadness]

There is a constant major terrorist event ongoing in Syria and Iraq.

Your chances of dying from a car accident, dog attack, frostbite and lightning strike are greater than being killed in a terrorist attack. Will you demand the government save you from all of those as well?

[-1=e^ipi]

Ok finally got it. It's religion! Region is the problem. I mean just the other day I was thinking of the time that Buddhist Monks, Rastafarians, Shinto devotees, Christians and Jews

Religions aren't the same. Stop equating them. I suggest you go read a Quran.

[Bonam]

Your chances of dying from a car accident, dog attack, frostbite and lightning strike are greater than being killed in a terrorist attack. Will you demand the government save you from all of those as well?

The government mandates car safety rules and enforces traffic laws to mitigate the risk of car accidents.

It is properly the function of individuals to safeguard themselves against frostbite.

The government has implemented building codes that almost completely eliminate the danger of being killed by lightning while in a city, and when out in the countryside, it is the individual's responsibility.

Dog attacks... dunno, blame it on the dog owner. Probably the government would try a dog owner who lets their dog kill people for manslaughter or something.

Terrorist attacks... yes, I'd expect a government to do what it can to prevent and deter those. Like all other things, the risk has to be weighed against the cost of mitigating it. Spending trillions of dollars on wars on the other side of the planet which don't improve our safety? Likely not the best approach. Infringing on everyone's freedom and privacy with mass surveillance to try to prevent attacks? No, the violation of rights is not worth the mitigation of such a statistically small risk. Filtering our stream of immigrants and refugees? Seems fairly low cost and potentially effective. Maybe we should try it?

[hitops]

Religions aren't the same. Stop equating them. I suggest you go read a Quran.

The above was tongue in cheek. That is meant for the locals who always like to say that 'all religions do it'. No, they really don't. One religion has a near monopoly.

Here's a fun game. The top conflicts in the world by death:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_conflicts

Game is called: Count how many do not involve Muslims.

Edited November 14, 2015 by hitops

[ReeferMadness]

The government mandates car safety rules and enforces traffic laws to mitigate the risk of car accidents.

Filtering our stream of immigrants and refugees? Seems fairly low cost and potentially effective. Maybe we should try it?

I was under the impression that's exactly what the folks at CBSA were planning to do anyway. No?

[Bonam]

I was under the impression that's exactly what the folks at CBSA were planning to do anyway. No?

Trying to rush 25,000 refugees over in the next 1.5 months sounds to me like a recipe for all kinds of failures of investigation and oversight. I imagine it would be absurdly easy for ISIS to get a few of their agents planted among the 25,000, if they so desired.

[bush_cheney2004]

Trying to rush 25,000 refugees over in the next 1.5 months.....

What was Trudeau's big hurry for 25K refugees by year's end anyway ?

[Moonlight Graham]

Trying to rush 25,000 refugees over in the next 1.5 months sounds to me like a recipe for all kinds of failures of investigation and oversight. I imagine it would be absurdly easy for ISIS to get a few of their agents planted among the 25,000, if they so desired.

Probably true, but then the refugees coming will only have temporary visas because we just won't have the time to properly process their applications, as our gov has admitted. Just like we don't do full background checks for every middle-eastern person who wants to come on a plane and visit family. If they are to stay as refugees and therefore become permanent residents of Canada, they'll need the full background checks (which I imagine will actually be harder to get police checks from the Syrian gov since they're in a state of civil war and higher priorities, and who the hell knows what activities some of these people have been up to the last 4 years that haven't been caught by police in lawless war-torn parts of the country). If a refugee turns out to be a security concern, we give them the boot.

It's a dumb promise. Polls say most Canadians don't support 25k refugees coming here at all, let alone in 2 months. If Trudeau fails to deliver on his promise in the next 1.5 months it will be fodder for the CPC and the media but really not many people will be too upset.

[Bonam]

It's a dumb promise. Polls say most Canadians don't support 25k refugees coming here at all, let alone in 2 months.

And I'm guessing a lot of Europe is gonna be thinking hard about their intake of refugees, as well.

If a refugee turns out to be a security concern, we give them the boot.

I'm not sure I share your confidence in the capabilities of our government agencies in competently evaluating and tracking the latest influx of refugees after they are already in Canada. Not to mention proper processing could likely take years, and that is plenty of time for the bad apples among them to do whatever they came here to do.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Bonam