blueblood Posted October 15, 2015 Report Posted October 15, 2015 You defend the Liberals here and brush off this blatant act of depravity because you dislike the Harper gov and want them to lose to the LPC. I want Harper to lose too, and would prefer Trudeau's Liberals over the CPC and will probably vote for the LPC because of that, but this is still disturbing, and I would never defend these kinds of actions, even if it may mean the Liberals lose some support before the election. Wrong is wrong. Im no LPC fan, but its not like theres money in brown envelopes floating around... Quote "Stop the Madness!!!" - Kevin O'Leary "Money is the ultimate scorecard of life!". - Kevin O'Leary Economic Left/Right: 4.00 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.77
Moonlight Graham Posted October 15, 2015 Report Posted October 15, 2015 for clarity, in your view, what is/are the actual wrong(s)... legal and/or ethical? Liberal campaign co-chair with energy sector connections and "advises" the Liberals on energy policy is advising an oil pipeline company on how to the best lobby his party when/if they form government so they can best influence their energy policy. Even Trudeau thinks it's wrong (or so claims): Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau said Thursday that his former campaign co-chair Dan Gagnier's letter to a number of people pushing for the Energy East pipeline to be built was "inappropriate," and that Gagnier has decided to step down from Trudeau's team for the "long-term future." Trudeau said that due to his connections to people in the energy industry, Gagnier was never involved in shaping Liberal energy policy but rather held an advisory role, and his voluntary resignation showed accountability. "We are well aware of the challenge of perceptions in politics and of the challenges the Liberal party has had to address in the past," Trudeau said. "That's why we took immediate action to say that this action was unacceptable, inappropriate and Mr. Gagnier fully assumes the responsibility for his actions and stepped down." Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
Moonlight Graham Posted October 15, 2015 Report Posted October 15, 2015 Im no LPC fan, but its not like theres money in brown envelopes floating around... Thankfully. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
Michael Hardner Posted October 15, 2015 Report Posted October 15, 2015 Threads have been merged. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
waldo Posted October 15, 2015 Report Posted October 15, 2015 Somebody phone Judge Gomery and put him on a retainer, on 'standby' status. so clever... you even made it a status update! Sorry lil' buddy... mandatory retired in 2007. Try some of the jurists who have ruled over HarperStances... perhaps judge Celynne Dorval... familiar with the "In's and Out's" of Harper antics! Quote
waldo Posted October 15, 2015 Report Posted October 15, 2015 While you Conservatives are up in arms over this, and rightfully so, there's something I need to tell you about Lynton Crosby.... a FTW on top! Isn't hiring a foreigner to influence a Canadian election against election laws... surely it must be! Quote
waldo Posted October 15, 2015 Report Posted October 15, 2015 Liberal campaign co-chair with energy sector connections and "advises" the Liberals on energy policy is advising an oil pipeline company on how to the best lobby his party when/if they form government so they can best influence their energy policy. if you're going to put up a quote... you shouldn't use it improperly: "never involved in shaping Liberal energy policy". I quoted the Liberal position on the Energy East pipeline... I commented on the mandate of EPIC in terms of a business slant on shaping a national energy strategy, one inclusive of, regulatory oversight, carbon management, carbon pricing, First Nations consult, etc.. I'm personally comfortable with providing an oil company information on how best to approach 'a sitting government' towards possibilities of reversing Canadian dependency on foreign imports (i.e. Energy East), subject to proper regulatory oversight. the political dynamics on this are quite telling... to this point, at least, Harper is still, once again, out playing GameShowHost-KaChing today on the campaign trail... this doesn't appear to be on his radar! Meanwhile we have Mulcair hot on the adscam play! Quite telling, indeed. . Quote
Vancouver King Posted October 15, 2015 Report Posted October 15, 2015 A sure-fire indicator of how serious the Liberal campaign considers this matter is the party's changed talking points surrounding the resignation. When this matter first broke Trudeau declared "no law was broken". Today the matter is considered a breach of ethics issue. Trudeau, of course, likely regrets his brain trust couldn't wait the agreed-to Oct. 20th date to begin influence peddling and diddling the treasury. Quote When the people have no tyrant, their public opinion becomes one. ...... Lord Lytton
waldo Posted October 15, 2015 Report Posted October 15, 2015 ... his brain trust couldn't wait the agreed-to Oct. 20th date to begin influence peddling and diddling the treasury. over-the-top much? Quote
Vancouver King Posted October 15, 2015 Report Posted October 15, 2015 over-the-top much? Maybe a bit for emphasis A 2 year Liberal minority serves two very important political goals. First, it fulfils the over-arching desire of voters to rid the nation of Stephen Harper. Second, this scandel will serve to keep Trudeau's minority on a leash - a majority would embolden the ever present 'sponsorship gang' to resume it's self-enriching agenda. Surely, Waldo, you didn't believe Trudeau's fresh face banished the ever present corrupt gang? Quote When the people have no tyrant, their public opinion becomes one. ...... Lord Lytton
waldo Posted October 15, 2015 Report Posted October 15, 2015 Surely, Waldo, you didn't believe Trudeau's fresh face banished the ever present corrupt gang? a "scandal"? Again, you're "over-the-top"! You speak of "ever present"... do you have names of those "ever present"... going back to 1996-2004? Quote
Vancouver King Posted October 15, 2015 Report Posted October 15, 2015 You can have all the names by googling 'Liberal sponsorship scandel". So answer my question - is Trudeau's leadership an assurance the pigs will not again assemble at the trough? Quote When the people have no tyrant, their public opinion becomes one. ...... Lord Lytton
overthere Posted October 15, 2015 Report Posted October 15, 2015 You can have all the names by googling 'Liberal sponsorship scandel". So answer my question - is Trudeau's leadership an assurance the pigs will not again assemble at the trough? No, the opposite is true. And they are very very hungry after 10 years of SlimFast. Quote Science too hard for you? Try religion!
ReeferMadness Posted October 15, 2015 Report Posted October 15, 2015 It is illegal for lobbyists to be working on an election campaign. http://ottawacitizen.com/storyline/kady-campaign-co-chair-lobbying-email-a-throwback-to-the-dark-days-of-liberal-scandals-past Anyone who defends this practice has their head in the sand or is a partisan hack. Clearly, his resignation is a clear sign that at least he knew that this was wrong, and perhaps others as well. Your link doesn't say it's illegal for lobbyists to be working on an election campaign - do you have any other evidence? I wouldn't defend this but I would say that I think that most people who are involved in elections will have other interests. It looks like Mr. Gagnier is perhaps looking to set himself up to be a lobbyist. The real question is what position is he in to influence a future government? Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
ReeferMadness Posted October 15, 2015 Report Posted October 15, 2015 The email was from Gagnier to 5 people in Trans Canada. The question is how did Canadian Press wind up with a copy? Was someone at Trans Canada hoping to hurt the Liberals to allow the Conservatives to get back in? Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Vancouver King Posted October 15, 2015 Report Posted October 15, 2015 No, the opposite is true. And they are very very hungry after 10 years of SlimFast. I can't help but take a measure of satisfaction in this forums prolific - and usually well informed - liberal posters now in a complete state of denial over the potential impact of this matter. It will serve to keep the Liberals to a minority - with the NDP holding the leash, thus assuring corruption is minimal. Quote When the people have no tyrant, their public opinion becomes one. ...... Lord Lytton
dialamah Posted October 15, 2015 Report Posted October 15, 2015 You can have all the names by googling 'Liberal sponsorship scandel". So answer my question - is Trudeau's leadership an assurance the pigs will not again assemble at the trough? Honestly, they never really leave - they just morph into different-looking pigs. Quote
cybercoma Posted October 15, 2015 Author Report Posted October 15, 2015 This isn't a scandal. Campaign managers don't have the same conflict of interest rules as MPs, so you're right. But it is a bit unsavoury that someone so close to Trudeau would turn around and advise TransCanada on how to lobby Trudeau (as well as the others, btw). Quote
Big Guy Posted October 15, 2015 Report Posted October 15, 2015 This guy does not appear to be very bright - or thinks that there is no problem - by using e-mail to convey anything. These days, anybody involved in politics and leaves a paper trail of anything that could be considered dodgy, is not very bright. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Vancouver King Posted October 15, 2015 Report Posted October 15, 2015 Honestly, they never really leave - they just morph into different-looking pigs. Whatever 'magic' Trudeau's campaign has generated to date much of it is likely now lost on voters as this attempt at influence peddling hits them trip hammer hard with sponsorship scandal memories. Quote When the people have no tyrant, their public opinion becomes one. ...... Lord Lytton
ToadBrother Posted October 15, 2015 Report Posted October 15, 2015 Honestly, they never really leave - they just morph into different-looking pigs. Exactly. Hopefully it kills the majority. I was becoming genuinely concerned that if the Liberals pulled even a narrow one off, electoral reform would fall of the radar, or worse be actively assassinated like the second STV referendum in BC. The NDP will almost certainly demand electoral reform as the price of maintaining confidence. Quote
Smallc Posted October 15, 2015 Report Posted October 15, 2015 Exactly. Hopefully it kills the majority. I was becoming genuinely concerned that if the Liberals pulled even a narrow one off, electoral reform would fall of the radar, or worse be actively assassinated like the second STV referendum in BC. The NDP will almost certainly demand electoral reform as the price of maintaining confidence. That is my fear of a liberal majority as well. I didn't like PR until I read up on STV. Quote
Vancouver King Posted October 15, 2015 Report Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) Exactly. Hopefully it kills the majority. I was becoming genuinely concerned that if the Liberals pulled even a narrow one off, electoral reform would fall of the radar, or worse be actively assassinated like the second STV referendum in BC. The NDP will almost certainly demand electoral reform as the price of maintaining confidence. Less than 2 hours ago you stated this matter would have no affect on the campaign (see Federal Polls thread, post #5287). Does this mean you are now out of denial? Edited October 15, 2015 by Vancouver King Quote When the people have no tyrant, their public opinion becomes one. ...... Lord Lytton
eyeball Posted October 15, 2015 Report Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) for clarity, in your view, what is/are the actual wrong(s)... legal and/or ethical? . After 8 years of opacity and evading accountability a lot of us are expecting a better effort from politicians, especially from those promising change. Illegal? Unethical? Not as far as we know or can see..but there's the rub, you see? Edited October 15, 2015 by eyeball Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
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