Truth and Reconciliation... Legitimacy

[On Guard for Thee]

Perhaps I'm an atheist. Perhaps I'm not looking for the same thing you are. The latter schools were not compulsory, and did not come with any special aboriginal directed abuse.

So after what particular date would you say abuse became acceptable...you know, within a year or to is fine.

[Smallc]

So after what particular date would you say abuse became acceptable...you know, within a year or to is fine.

That's not what I said, so I'm not going to answer.

[Big Guy]

In 1969, bill C-150 was passed by the Canadian Parliament decriminalizing homosexuality. Up to that point, homosexual acts were illegal and a number of homosexuals were punished and imprisoned for their acts.

Using the same logic as for the Aboriginals, should those homosexuals (and their families) be given apologies, reconciliation and perhaps paid reparations for the way they were treated?

[jacee]

I would almost guarantee you that none of that happened in the later years.

Cite?

.

[On Guard for Thee]

In 1969, bill C-150 was passed by the Canadian Parliament decriminalizing homosexuality. Up to that point, homosexual acts were illegal and a number of homosexuals were punished and imprisoned for their acts.

Using the same logic as for the Aboriginals, should those homosexuals (and their families) be given apologies, reconciliation and perhaps paid reparations for the way they were treated?

Yes they should. If you were convicted and jailed unjustly wouldn't you appreciate at least an apology...

[Smallc]

Cite?

.

There's no evidence that it did. Now prove it. You're the one alleging that something did happen.

[poochy]

There's no evidence that it did. Now prove it. You're the one alleging that something did happen.

Actually the usual suspects here would have to prove that it happened in an organized way or at a rate that was significantly different than most everywhere else, but they can't and won't, their talents are quite limited when it comes to speaking about things like reality, ii you want a field of strawmen built or a lesson in deflecting questions, well, that's a different story.

[Smallc]

Yes, you're right. Abuse did happen in the 90s and does happen to this day - to everyone. It's a systemic issue in the remaining residential schools that need to be proven.

[Canada_First]

How do we know some of these people aren't lying?

People have gotten on the stand and given tearful believable testimony before. Have these people been vigorously cross examined?

In every other aspect people demand that proof be given but with this no proof is needed. Why? Isn't it irresponsible to do so?

[Michael Hardner]

How do we know some of these people aren't lying?

Some may be lying, but it's clear that this happened and that there was abuse.

The status of the FN people in Canada is a terrible shame, and the political will is there to address that problem.

[Michael Hardner]

Unfortunately, it's far easier to blame FN people, or alternately stand on a moral soapbox, then to imagine solutions, to have experts propose ways forward, to create a public that will specifically think about what can be done. This is evidenced by the lack of response on my 'Truth and Reconciliation - Moving Forward' thread.

[drummindiver]

Unfortunately, it's far easier to blame FN people, or alternately stand on a moral soapbox, then to imagine solutions, to have experts propose ways forward, to create a public that will specifically think about what can be done. This is evidenced by the lack of response on my 'Truth and Reconciliation - Moving Forward' thread.

I actually stated the case of the Pentiction Indian Tribe who has, of their own volition, brought unemployment and poverty way down, citing several key elements to accomplish this.

You have not brought much forward. Who else do you blame? If I am stuck in poverty and addiction, who do I blame?

FN people have just as much opportunity as the rest of us.

[Rocky Road]

∞

[On Guard for Thee]

How do we know some of these people aren't lying?

People have gotten on the stand and given tearful believable testimony before. Have these people been vigorously cross examined?

In every other aspect people demand that proof be given but with this no proof is needed. Why? Isn't it irresponsible to do so?

How we might find out is to allow the police documents on the residential schools to be opened. Harper keeps fighting that in court. I wonder why.

[Michael Hardner]

I actually stated the case of the Pentiction Indian Tribe who has, of their own volition, brought unemployment and poverty way down, citing several key elements to accomplish this.

.

Sorry I missed that- was it on the Moving Forward thread?

[drummindiver]

Sorry I missed that- was it on the Moving Forward thread?

Yes it was.

"Have you read the June 22/2015 Macleans special feature titled Indigenous Development,. It chronicles several success stories, including how a reserve, Penticton Indian Band, used an economic development plan to reduce unemployment from 60% to 20% and helped infrastructure, including building a new health centre and upgrading their school. They had a plan and followed it. There is no reason many other FNs cannot follow suit".

[Michael Hardner]

Thanks I will look

[Canada_First]

Will it soon become fashionable to award FN people white owned lands like Mugabe did in Rhodesia?

[bush_cheney2004]

Will it soon become fashionable to award FN people white owned lands like Mugabe did in Rhodesia?

I sure hope not....'cause thousands of former Canadian land owners will flee to the U.S....just like they did from Rhodesia and South Africa.

[PrimeNumber]

Will it soon become fashionable to award FN people white owned lands like Mugabe did in Rhodesia?

Maybe, you better move to the US just in case it happens. In fact tell all your buddies and take them with you.

[On Guard for Thee]

Thanks I will look

The Osoyoos band is another example.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-magazine/clarence-louie-feature/article18913980/

[Canada_First]

I sure hope not....'cause thousands of former Canadian land owners will flee to the U.S....just like they did from Rhodesia and South Africa.

Maybe, you better move to the US just in case it happens. In fact tell all your buddies and take them with you.

I don't like USA to live. Too crowded. I like my wide open spaces. I need somewhere that I can be free on the land. The problem is that all western nations are giving their power away. I don't understand why.

Edited June 29, 2015 by Canada_First

[PIK]

I received a letter yrs ago telling me ,that I will be paying the natives to stay on my land. They are going to eventually push to far and then whitey is going to push back and push back hard. As Yamamoto once said '' I fear all we have done is awaken a sleeping giant and filled him with a terrible resolve '' And that can easily happen here if they push to hard. Now is a good time to get things done, but if they keeping asking for everything ..................

[Second-class Canadian]

I tend to take a much broader view of reconciliation and cultural genocide.

If we set the residential school system aside for a moment (since the TRC's mandate was narrowly circumscribed to that) and focus instead on the beliefs on which it was raised, we find that that system shared the same credal foundations as the separate school system, the Chinese Exclusion Act, the abrogation of the right of German and Ukrainian Canadians to send their children to school in their own languages, discriminatory immigration policies favoring British immigrants initially and English and French speaking immigrants later, Japanese internment against the advice of the Canadian military, the Official Languages Act, and even the religious and linguistic provisions of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

The residential school system was only one small part of the government's policy of cultural genocide since Confederation even to this day (consider the powers of the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs and the role of the Commissioner for Official Languages among many other players throughout the government's structures today). At the height of the residential school era at the time of the '60's scoop, the government already knew that the residential school system had to be dismantled eventually. In many respects, the B&B Commission report was a preparation for this. You can read in that report how it explicitly excludes "the Indians and the Esquimaux" from belonging to the two "founding races" which it defines as "Canadians of British and French origin" apart from the "other ethnic groups". The same Report outlines how the government intended to completely assimilate the indigenous peoples into the provincial systems. The Indian Policy of 1969 further elaborates on the plan to completely wipe out indigenous rights. In essence, the Official Languages Act was aiming to replace the Indian Act. Though that plan failed, the OLA and now the CCRF still serve a certain subtle assimilationist purpose off-reserve when the Indian Act does not apply.

In many respects, the OLA and the CCRF among many other laws are just cultural genocide with a friendly face.

[TimG]

The same Report outlines how the government intended to completely assimilate the indigenous peoples into the provincial systems.

Assimilation is good and to be encouraged. Forced assimilation is bad. The problem with residential schools was the coercive nature - not the objective of assimilation. i.e. if an immigrant or native chooses to assimilate into the majority culture then that is a good thing and society wins. If they choose not to then society should accommodate within limits.

It is worth noting that support for immigration is entirely based on the belief that the children/grandchildren of these immigrants will voluntarily assimilate. If this did not happen then support for immigration would drop. IOW, assimilation is a core social value in Canada.

Edited July 2, 2015 by TimG