Old Wine in New Bottles - Holocaust & Anti-Zionism

[eyeball]

People have been fighting over that piece of land for thousands of years, not just a century. Fighting over that area goes back to the earliest recorded writings and likely well before. The only thing unusual about the present day is the presence of the hundreds of millions of spectators abroad who think they have all the answers to ethics and morality and should be able to dictate how others resolve their own conflicts.

There's unusual but then there's the downright bizarre, which is how many of these hundreds of millions are willing to put billions upon billions where their mouths are.

[jbg]

Land theft and human rights violations is not trying to live in peace. You have once again come in here with one of your fantasy statements.

OK, what land in the Levant controlled by the Jews is not stolen in your book?

[jbg]

Stealing land via settlement building isn't "peace". Israelis and most Arabs in the region aren't trying to live in peace. They've been continually fighting over the same piece of land for over a century, it just so happens Zionists are winning, That's the reality of the situation.

So now that Jews are winning it's necessary to hold them back? Maybe not so much when Nazis or Palestinian Arabs were winning.

[Je suis Omar]

So now that Jews are winning it's necessary to hold them back? Maybe not so much when Nazis or Palestinian Arabs were winning.

Committing war crimes and acts of terrorism, creating a discriminatory society, subjugating poor innocents can't realistically be described as winning.

[bush_cheney2004]

Committing war crimes and acts of terrorism, creating a discriminatory society, subjugating poor innocents can't realistically be described as winning.

OK...but it sure beats losing.

[sharkman]

Committing war crimes and acts of terrorism, creating a discriminatory society, subjugating poor innocents can't realistically be described as winning.

With ranting false narrative posts such as these, one can only ignore them.

Edited May 22, 2015 by sharkman

[marcus]

OK, what land in the Levant controlled by the Jews is not stolen in your book?

See international law and what the international community sees as illegal occupation and settlements.

[marcus]

With ranting false narrative posts such as these, one can only ignore them.

Here is more false narrative:

The new face of the Zionist thievery of Palestine -- the settler colony's new "deputy foreign minister" -- the delusional Tzipi Hotovely who says: "This land is ours. All of it is ours"-- according to the Guardian: "Hotovely, 36, is among a generation of young hardliners in Netanyahu’s Likud party who support West Bank settlement construction and oppose ceding captured land to the Palestinians."--

With fanatical armed robbers like Hotovely as the top diplomat, genocidal maniacs as Shaked in charge of "Justice," and war criminals like Netanyahu as Prime Minister of the racist apartheid state, the banal band of liberal Zionists will have a bit of a difficult time to continue to act as the lubricating grease sustaining the continued operation of the machinery of death, destruction, and land theft they call "Israel"--

To learn more about Tzipi Hotovely, here is the Guardian article.

[sharkman]

Marcus, you really need to leave that extremist mosque you're obviously attending. The Imam there is not good for you.

[marcus]

Marcus, you really need to leave that extremist mosque you're obviously attending. The Imam there is not good for you.

You are continuing to resist the truth and are trying to mask your inability to progress as a human with garbage comments like that.

[Big Guy]

It really is distasteful to criticize, demean or insult any poster directly or indirectly just because you do not agree with their views. That is why in the short time I have been here, I have seen some very interesting new posters either disappear or be very, very careful in posting. Why just not take the advice of the moderator and write the individual off as having nothing to add for you and ignore them. It really does work in the long run.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Big Guy

[sharkman]

Thanks for the advice, Guy. When I get treated like that it doesn't matter to me. Some just need to grow thicker skin perhaps?

[Big Guy]

Perhaps if one expects a civil discussion then one maintains that civility. I am not a moderator on this site and have no wish to do so. I have been active on different sites for many years and feel that this one can be used as an information sharing medium. It can also be used by anyone to satisfy their own unsavory hidden agendas using the cover of honest and intelligent sharing of views to try to validate dangerous and divisive ideology.

There have been a few instances where an honest discussion of opposing views have been shared to the benefit (I believe) of those who sign on to read and maybe post.

Unfortunately, it appears to me that there is a belief that compromise, acceptance of an opposing view or replying in a civil manner is considered a weakness of argument. I disagree with sharkman on a number of issues but he/she is one of the posters whose opinions I continue to read and at times respond to. I would like to continue to do that. I believe that the winner of any fight is not the one who returns a left hook with a right hook ending with both antagonists in the slammer but the one who dodges the left hook and walks away.

We have created avatars to which we have attached personalities which basically represent us but with the option to not have to be responsible for the actions and declarations of those avatars. That allows for some strange personal feelings when someone is attacking your avatar - or is it you they are attacking?

I do understand that a "thick skin" may be required but I suggest that it is only needed if a poster expresses themselves in a manner where the recipient of their post requires a "thick skin". Too often that banter escalates to a question of just how thick a skin one needs or the moderator has to get involved. Every so often I get on this soap box because I hate to see serious discussions among intelligent people with conflicting views deteriorate into name calling and petty asides.

Thank you for allowing me two minutes of your life.

[jbg]

OK, what land in the Levant controlled by the Jews is not stolen in your book?

See international law and what the international community sees as illegal occupation and settlements.

Can I get a straight answer to a simple question?

[Je suis Omar]

Can I get a straight answer to a simple question?

Straight answers most often send you fleeing, jbg. You have little to no interest in straight answers or addressing the facts of so many situations.

This is so evident that it hardly requires saying, but because you reappear every so often to pretend that you are a party to open discussion, it must be pointed up.

Google

"maps of israeli stealing of palestinian land".

It's not difficult. The first results, the images, will give you exactly what you are asking for.

"Palestinian Loss of Land 1946 to 2000"

If I photobucketed, I'd do it for you. But this way, you don't have to see it on these pages, which, I don't know, just might make you happy.

Edited May 23, 2015 by Je suis Omar

[jbg]

"Palestinian Loss of Land 1946 to 2000"

If I photobucketed, I'd do it for you. But this way, you don't have to see it on these pages, which, I don't know, just might make you happy.

Your citation to "1946" gives your views away. Thank you.

You don't think Israel should exist at all obviously.

[Je suis Omar]

Your citation to "1946" gives your views away. Thank you.

You don't think Israel should exist at all obviously.

What do you think your repeated failure to ever address any issues does?

Just a post ago, I had noted,

"Straight answers most often send you fleeing, jbg. You have little to no interest in straight answers or addressing the facts of so many situations."

And what do you immediately do in your next post?

Edited May 23, 2015 by Je suis Omar

[sharkman]

Your citation to "1946" gives your views away. Thank you.

You don't think Israel should exist at all obviously.

Yes, certain specific groups of people don't want Israel to exist at all, unlike Israel, which is fine with any peaceful neighbours who don't dig tunnels, blow themselves up or shoot rockets into Israel.

[marcus]

Yes, certain specific groups of people don't want Israel to exist at all

You should perhaps try avoiding misinformed comments like that and instead look beyond giving knee jerk responses when reading a criticism of Israel.

Even though the creation of the State of Israel was done under very questionable circumstances, too much time has past and it's too late to go back. Israel is here to stay. What many people expect is for a country, like Israel, to follow international law. Expecting a country to stop illegal land annexation by force or through expansion of illegal settlements is not saying something should not exist.

Digging tunnels to bring supplies in, shooting rockets and terrorist attacks are all a product of what Israel has been doing for the past 6 decades. Does anyone fault the tunnels and the uprising of the Jews in Auschwitz against the occupying power? Does anyone fault the resistance of the blacks in South Africa against the Apartheid regime? Perhaps, at the time, the powers did fault the people resisting them, but now, it's a different story. I am quite certain that history will look back at the Palestinian struggle against the dominating, colonialist occupiers the same way.

Edited May 25, 2015 by marcus

[bush_cheney2004]

For sure...history will soon reflect on the '72 Olympics kidnappings and murders in Munich as a noble struggle and patriotic fight against the evil occupiers. It will happen any day now....

[sharkman]

Meanwhile, people need to report to the authorities the extremist teachings going on at certain mosques in North America.

[marcus]

For sure...history will soon reflect on the '72 Olympics kidnappings and murders in Munich as a noble struggle and patriotic fight against the evil occupiers. It will happen any day now....

You can't complain about the response by those being occupied, until you are able to complain about the occupiers.

Sure, terrible acts committed through terrorism such as the '72 Olympics murders is something we hear of often. Other acts of terrorism that we don't hear of, especially from you, such as the Israeli massacres of Palestinians in 1948, like the al-Dawayima massacre where 70 people were killed, the Safsaf massacre where over 50 people were killed, Eilabun massacre where over 14 people were killed. There is also the Kafr Qasim massacre in 1956 where 48 people were killed by the Israeli police - The list goes on and on.

Terrorist acts on both sides does not change the fact that Israel is the colonizer, colonizing and eating away at Palestinian land, while violating the human rights of the lives of the Palestinians.

The resistance, whether it's violent resistant, or peaceful resistance (which has been the majority of it), is a product of Israel's actions and the complicity (Like U.S.) or inaction of the Western government. That's the reality.

[sharkman]

You should perhaps try avoiding misinformed comments like that and instead look beyond giving knee jerk responses when reading a criticism of Israel.

Even though the creation of the State of Israel was done under very questionable circumstances, too much time has past and it's too late to go back. Israel is here to stay. What many people expect is for a country, like Israel, to follow international law. Expecting a country to stop illegal land annexation by force or through expansion of illegal settlements is not saying something should not exist.

Digging tunnels to bring supplies in, shooting rockets and terrorist attacks are all a product of what Israel has been doing for the past 6 decades. Does anyone fault the tunnels and the uprising of the Jews in Auschwitz against the occupying power? Does anyone fault the resistance of the blacks in South Africa against the Apartheid regime? Perhaps, at the time, the powers did fault the people resisting them, but now, it's a different story. I am quite certain that history will look back at the Palestinian struggle against the dominating, colonialist occupiers the same way.

You seem to be living in a fantasy world where Israel was not invaded several times, once even on a holy day. Your delusions prevent you from admitting that there are whole groups of demented people that want Israel pushed into the sea for merely existing. You seek out hateful versions of history and embrace them. There is little I can do for you.

[Je suis Omar]

Meanwhile, people need to report to the authorities the extremist teachings going on at certain mosques in North America.

Whose was the better "Oh look a squirrel!" post, Sharkman, this one of yours or the B_C2004 one that preceded this one of yours?

[Je suis Omar]

You seem to be living in a fantasy world where Israel was not invaded several times, once even on a holy day. Your delusions prevent you from admitting that there are whole groups of demented people that want Israel pushed into the sea for merely existing. You seek out hateful versions of history and embrace them. There is little I can do for you.

Or this just quoted post of yours. But you having two entries to one for B_C2004 isn't really fair, is it? Let's wait until his/her next post.