jbg Posted June 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Collective punishment via thousands of innocent deaths is disproportionate, more akin to ethnic cleansing than 'war'. . Maybe the Palestinians made a mistake and continue making a mistake when not negotiating seriously for peace. And such negotiations mean accepting results well short of a capitulation by Israel. Just because Obama's negotiating style amounts to capitulation in stages does not mean that Israel needs to do likewise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Je suis Omar Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 So the Zionists can't fight, but the Gazans can fight randomly? Knowing the effectiveness of propaganda, y'all keep repeating the same old lies. If you were to ask anyone, from a casual observer to a ‘well-informed’ media commentator, which side violates the ceasefires more often, they would almost surely say Gaza. The newspapers and network news media constantly inform the American people when a rocket is hurled from Gaza into Israel. Both Israeli and American politicians cite this phenomenon in speeches and press conferences to justify Israel’s continuing economic blockade of Gaza, among other things. With regard to the Gaza situation, practically all we hear about is rockets. In an ongoing study of violence between Israel and Gaza, The Jerusalem Fund, a non-profit in Washington, D.C., has catalogued cease-fire violations on either side. The principal finding is as follows: “Palestinian launches have been rare and sporadic and occurred almost always after successive instances of Israeli cease-fire violations.” Despite this, in the diplomacy on Mid-East peace, we invariably hear about Israel’s security concerns, while that of the Palestinians’ is hardly mentioned. http://antiwar.com/blog/2014/02/06/the-truth-about-cease-fire-violations-between-israel-and-gaza/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) Maybe the Palestinians made a mistake and continue making a mistake when not negotiating seriously for peace. And such negotiations mean accepting results well short of a capitulation by Israel.Oh so it's ok for Israel to carry out ethnic cleansing?Because Palestine won't say "Yes Israel, we give you permission to be a Jewish state." Why does Israel need Palestine ' s permission to be what it has already chosen to be? And did you even read what you quoted above? " ... after successive instances of Israeli cease-fire violations. . Edited June 2, 2015 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Maybe the Palestinians made a mistake and continue making a mistake when not negotiating seriously for peace. And such negotiations mean accepting results well short of a capitulation by Israel. Just because Obama's negotiating style amounts to capitulation in stages does not mean that Israel needs to do likewise. Why could Irgun and others not negotiate peace? Israel was born via violence. You don't come to my neighborhood and try to claim it as your (or because God promised it to you) own and kick me out. People get a little upset about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted June 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Why could Irgun and others not negotiate peace? Israel was born via violence. You don't come to my neighborhood and try to claim it as your (or because God promised it to you) own and kick me out. People get a little upset about that. Why is it only when Jews want a state this becomes an issue? Where's the agitation to return Germans to the Sudenland parts of the Czech Republic? How about self-determination for Tibet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poochy Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Oh so it's ok for Israel to carry out ethnic cleansing? Im not sure why we worry about having links to say start a thread when some people seem to have free reign to outright lie in so many posts. That seems inconsistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Why is it only when Jews want a state this becomes an issue? Where's the agitation to return Germans to the Sudenland parts of the Czech Republic? How about self-determination for Tibet?Ah ... the victim card has been played ... again ... by the aggressor.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Why is it only when Jews want a state this becomes an issue? Where's the agitation to return Germans to the Sudenland parts of the Czech Republic? How about self-determination for Tibet? You are not reading what I posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) Jacee you raised the victim card to criticize JBG for allegedly using the victim card. Here's a hint, you might want to try avoid using the very tactic you accuse others of. Kind of silly to be in an elevator wih JBG let out a huge fart while telling him not to fart in the elevator. I added the last part to make it easy to understand. Of course JBG does not fart. He's a nice Jewish boy. That's just an analogy. Edited June 3, 2015 by Rue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) Hudson Jones-the fact that there were at one point up to 250 Jews who believed engaging in terror could assist in the creation of an Israeli state and that JBG and I openly stated that is a public fact does not mean Zionism was born from it. You chose to deliberately misstate what we said.Neither of us a s you suggested stated these terrorists gave birth to Zionii and for you to suggest either of us claimed that speaks to your agenda and the tactic you use on this forum with us. Its a tactic you use and yet have accused others of engaging in against you and that engaging in the very tactic you accuse others of also speaks for itself. Your misrepresentation speaks loudly and it simply further evidences your agenda and lack of cedbility and honesty when dealing with me or JBG or others who you perceive a pro Zionist. You are wellawae Zionism was not born out of 250 Jews who engaged in terrorism at one point in their lives. It came about in Europe, through discussions in bunds-trade unions between Jews envisioning a way to escape being second class nationals in hostile nations that did not want them. The origins of Zionism are public domain as is the fact that terrorists in th name of Zionism were a fringe group rejected by the Zionist movement. Zionism did not start with, or was born from terrorists. That is your attempt to spin negatively the origins of Zionism to fulfill your agenda to come on this board and flood it wih anti Zionist rhetoric using the pen name Hudson Jones. Its a pathetic attempt to engage in a ridiculous argument that its acceptable for Palestinians to be terrorists since you think Israelis are for existing as a Jewish state. History and public fact won't disappear because of your weak attempts to bait who you think are Zionists with such misrepresentations. Another day another Zionist is poo script. Yippee yahoo kayay! Ride em......cowboy or is that Jewboy. Edited June 3, 2015 by Rue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Hudson Jones-the fact that there were at one point up to 250 Jews who believed engaging in terror could assist in the creation of an Israeli state and that JBG and I openly stated that is a public fact does not mean Zionism was born from it. These militia groups who engaged in terrorism eventually assimilated into the Israeli government and the IDF. During the Nakba, the IDF and the Zionist militia groups continued their terrorist activities by killing thousands of people, torturing, and destroying over 400 Palestinian villages. Engaging in systematic ethnic cleansing (depopulation) of what is now Israel. By throwing the number 250 in here to describe Irgun and other militia groups and pretending that Zionist terrorism ended there, does not change the fact that Israel's government and military not only engaged in terrorism against the Palestinians in the early days of State of Israel, but they continue to terrorize the population now. The propaganda machine has tried to define what terrorism is, who terrorists can be and what and who cannot. The truth is that you don't need a suicide vest and an Arab name to terrorize people. You can do it with guns, tanks, drones, planes, ships and helicopters as well. Israel has easily proven this with their actions in the Occupied Territories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted June 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Jacee you raised the victim card to criticize JBG for allegedly using the victim card. Here's a hint, you might want to try avoid using the very tactic you accuse others of. Kind of silly to be in an elevator wih JBG let out a huge fart while telling him not to fart in the elevator. I added the last part to make it easy to understand. Of course JBG does not fart. He's a nice Jewish boy. That's just an analogy. My issue is simple. "World opinion" focuses on Israel almost to the exclusion of other countries that are far more brutal. Israel's activities are understandable from the point of maintaining a First World nation state. Missiles and hi-tech simply don't mix. That explains the severity of Israel's retaliation. What is obvious that the problem that many have with Israel is not racism, not the "Wall" but any existence of any Jewish state, anywhere. Christians and Muslims have been fighting for millennia and at some level know that each others' states are not going away, at least in toto. Israel is the one and only Jewish state, and appears subject to elimination. The Israelis are not going to cooperate in this plan. The propaganda machine has tried to define what terrorism is, who terrorists can be and what and who cannot. The truth is that you don't need a suicide vest and an Arab name to terrorize people. You can do it with guns, tanks, drones, planes, ships and helicopters as well. Israel has easily proven this with their actions in the Occupied Territories. Having a nation state defines what tactics are used. But the suicide vest accomplishes nothing towards Arab goals yet creates misery, bloodshed and tension that winds up being self-defeating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hudson Jones Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) But the suicide vest accomplishes nothing towards Arab goals yet creates misery, bloodshed and tension that winds up being self-defeating. Couldn't agree with you more. It's a good thing that majority of Palestinians are engaging in peaceful protests and have almost completely moved away from terrorist tactics. Movements like the BDS which had a great effect on Apartheid South Africa and has become a strong force in the realization of justice for the Palestinians. Israel on the other hand, mostly under Bibi, has increased its terrorist policies. Israel's State Terrorism and bully tactics through its military and policies has isolated Israel in the international community and it is only a matter of time before the governments around the world will be forced to treat Israel as they did with Apartheid South Africa. Edited June 3, 2015 by Hudson Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 ...Israel on the other hand, mostly under Bibi, has increased its terrorist policies. Israel's State Terrorism and bully tactics through its military and policies has isolated Israel in the international community and it is only a matter of time before the governments around the world will be forced to treat Israel and they did with Apartheid South Africa. Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen....Canada is still working to broaden free trade with Israel (CIFTA)). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hudson Jones Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen....Canada is still working to broaden free trade with Israel (CIFTA)). No one is holding their breath. The criminals in charge will do what they can to continue the status quo, as they did in Apartheid South Africa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 No one is holding their breath. The criminals in charge will do what they can to continue the status quo, as they did in Apartheid South Africa. It's not very hard to do....nobody is investing large amounts of capital in the Palestinian brand of terror. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Marcus your attempt to respond to me suggesting a fringe group of terrorists turned in by Zionists were assimilated into the Israeli government speaks for itself. You think if you spin and misrepresent the actual history and origins, make up and duration of the Stern-Levi gangs and Irgun presto they are no different than the entire state of Israel to then portray as one big holistic terrorist entity-this coming from someone who would pee his pants if the same stereotyping was done of Muslims, Palestinians or Arabs. Save your dialogue for someone else. At this point why even respond to me is anyone's guess. Boo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 To summarize, H. Jones, Israel terrorist all bad poo poo ka ka bad bad bad. Palestine "mostly: peaceful people. There you go.Good thing that was made clear. I had no idea it was H.Jones' position. I appreciate the clarification of his position.I thought he was saying Israel should not be stereotyped as a terrorist state and demonized the same reason it should not be done with Palestinians.. Good thing he clarified that and makes it clear that is not the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Marcus your attempt to respond to me suggesting a fringe group of terrorists turned in by Zionists were assimilated into the Israeli government speaks for itself. Two of the terrorist groups' leaders became Israeli Prime Ministers. Not only that, but there is ample evidence that after the formation of Israel, during the Nakba, Zionist militia groups and the IDF engaged in terrorism and a systematic ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. Why are you in such a denial? Free your soul from all these lies and start standing up for the truth. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8EUj-MX_Iw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 Marcus you came on this forum and said you are not a Muslim. You have now told me to free my soul. That is a Muslim expression used directly against infidels. You still deny you make veiled references to me and you are not a Shiite Muslim? Hmmmm? Don't come on this board and claim you can speak to me in the tone of a Mullah. I have prayed in mosques side by side Muslims. Careful when you invoke your religious references. Next, I specifically stated Begin and Shamir were terrorists. I never denied they were so for you to come on this forum and state I denied they were is an out and out lie. What I in fact stated is they had to when they took an allegiance to become Prime Minister took an oath that renounces terrorism. No one in Israel denied either were terrorists or condoned what they did as terrorists. Your attempt to smeer all Zionists and all Israelis today as terrorists because of a fringe minority that were is a stale and used tactic. Now you try the religious reference again I will not respond but report it. I gave this one response out of courtesy because stooping to veiled Muslim religious preaching to me, oh it stops here. You don't speak as a Muslim, or anything else with me, just as another person with an opinion. Do not presume to think you can speak for my soul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Marcus you came on this forum and said you are not a Muslim. You have now told me to free my soul. That is a Muslim expression used directly against infidels. You still deny you make veiled references to me and you are not a Shiite Muslim? Hmmmm? Don't come on this board and claim you can speak to me in the tone of a Mullah. I have prayed in mosques side by side Muslims. Careful when you invoke your religious references. Next, I specifically stated Begin and Shamir were terrorists. I never denied they were so for you to come on this forum and state I denied they were is an out and out lie. What I in fact stated is they had to when they took an allegiance to become Prime Minister took an oath that renounces terrorism. No one in Israel denied either were terrorists or condoned what they did as terrorists. Your attempt to smeer all Zionists and all Israelis today as terrorists because of a fringe minority that were is a stale and used tactic. Now you try the religious reference again I will not respond but report it. I gave this one response out of courtesy because stooping to veiled Muslim religious preaching to me, oh it stops here. You don't speak as a Muslim, or anything else with me, just as another person with an opinion. Do not presume to think you can speak for my soul. You are severely paranoid and seem to be quite fearful of Muslims, even though you've "prayed with them in mosques, side by side". I am happy that you are facing reality and speaking the truth about Zionism's terrorist roots. Perhaps one day a Zionist will stand an denounce the terrorism by the illegal Jewish settlers and state terrorism committed by the Israeli military and government against the Palestinians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Marcus, whether its H Jones or Marcus using the same device to suggest I or JBG are claiming Zionism has terrorist roots which we of course have not, its transparent that there is no difference in your posts. So you two keep up the misstatements. That's nice. By the way in your last sentence, you mixed up singular with plural again. Salaam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 By the way in your last sentence, you mixed up singular with plural again. I would be fascinated to hear you clarify what you meant by this statement. I realize it would be difficult for you to articulate, but it would be a treat for me if you would try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 I would be fascinated to hear you clarify what you meant by this statement. I realize it would be difficult for you to articulate, but it would be a treat for me if you would try. It would be nice to see a post without poo poo ka ka .. I guess we are not all adults here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 (edited) Perhaps one day a Zionist will stand and explain to Bubber Miley how to use a translator. As for you Ghost saying my dogs excrete "criminal" and "terrorist" is silly. , For me using such words simply because the word "Israel" is in the sentence doesn't make it any less silly. But of course you disagree and think my opinion criminal and terrorist er I mean poo poo ka ka. Edited June 9, 2015 by Rue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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